Are dealers responsible for more accidents happening?

pras.oct25 · 26th January 2009, 22:34

@mods If this is in the wrong place please move

Hey guys,
Was just talking to a friend of mine who's family plans to buy a car. He is still learning and cannot even drive enough to TD yet. But coming to the point.
Based on my recommendation of the hyundai i10 he went to the hyundai showroom to check out the car. He also saw the swift at maruti.
Apparently the sales chaps at both the showrooms have told him to compromise on the safety features as he saves up to 50k, and that he can go for the base or the middle models, because features such as abs and airbags are "not rquired in indian conditions", and he has very conveniently believed this also.
I was shocked at this and gave him a big lecture as to why there are so many reasons why he SHOULD go for the safety features and not compromise on safety in indian conditions.
Its very sad that the dealerships themselves dont highlight the necessary for safety. Car manufacturers also put in safety features only in the high end models, the main difference between the higher end and the lower end models of a car lie in the lack of safety features, and ppl go for the lower end cause they save 50k or more, and this in turn is largely responsible for the number of road accidents and deaths occuring. The question is, apart from the general lack of discipline of the people, are dealers who guide people in the wrong way and manufacturers who fail to incorporate enough safety into the cars they sell, one of the biggest contributors to road accidents in india?

zaks · 26th January 2009, 22:48

Safety is a relative term and whats safe for some might not be so for others so the sales guys were not at fault.
Unless they are doing something which is illegal, any advice on saving money for the customer is thought of as good business practice

BenjiRoss · 26th January 2009, 22:54

Actually the dealers say things based on how they perceive your budget is.
If they feel that you may not buy a car because of budget restrictions they talk more about the base models and try to say that it is enough.
If they feel you have more dough they will try to sell the higher end with more features (including safety features)
Unfortunately they seem to have resorted to misinforming your friend in this case.
Its (unethical) business tactics.
As a buyer you should never let the dealer have the final say. Every buyer should do a lot of research about what he needs and what is available and finally make a choice.

Quote:

and this in turn is largely responsible for the number of road accidents and deaths occuring.

Personally I think that bad driving and driver errors are the major cause for accidents and deaths. Safety features will reduce the amount of deaths, but by how much?

ritz830 · 26th January 2009, 22:54

its not only dealers, its everyone. Most of us still thing ABS and airbags are not necessary. But it matters when you go fast in highways. For the new car buyers its a plus point because they are now able to get a complete Future car and not like those old ones.

Also many old car owners are kinda frustrated on the new cars which come with ABS and airbags. So they give blind advices to new car buyers that these features are useless although they have no experience on this subject

ABS and Airbags is the divider line between two generations of cars

pras.oct25 · 26th January 2009, 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by zaks

Safety is a relative term and whats safe for some might not be so for others so the sales guys were not at fault.
Unless they are doing something which is illegal, any advice on saving money for the customer is thought of as good business practice

Well it may not be illegal. But do people really need to be educated to know that there are certain things that need to be done to keep themselves alive?
But then if the case is such that people will compromise on safety unless compromised otherwise, then shouldnt it be the dealers and manufacturers who take better steps to ensure safety? For example, why do you need a sunroof in an i10? Do they think that the passenger will jump out of the top of the car in the event of an accident?

Why not give value for money by making the car safer. I'm sure people can do with less of bottles trays or driver armrests that most people dont use because its not even comfortable to drive with.

pras.oct25 · 26th January 2009, 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenjiRoss

Unfortunately they seem to have resorted to misinforming your friend in this case.
Its (unethical) business tactics.
As a buyer you should never let the dealer have the final say. Every buyer should do a lot of research about what he needs and what is available and finally make a choice.
Personally I think that bad driving and driver errors are the major cause for accidents and deaths. Safety features will reduce the amount of deaths, but by how much?

Yes, unethical is the word to be used isnt it? If he had at least approached it from a budget point of view, less questions would have been asked. But that he said it is not necessary, that was the sad part. And people are under the impression that better brakes are needed only when you go fast. everything ranging from cycles to cows ply on indian roads. You can be doing 20km/hr and still have a major accident. I agree with your view that the presence of safety features may not entirely mean that you can escape an accident, neither does it give license to go faster, but its about the higher chances you have of being safer, and the peace of mind you get knowing that your car will do its best to keep you secure when needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ritz830

ABS and Airbags is the divider line between two generations of cars

Well said...

anjan_c2007 · 26th January 2009, 23:08

pras.oct thats true. The dealer and their salesmen have only one single goal - push up sales by hook or by crook.They are ill-informed about many technical aspects and cannot sometimes fulfil some simple customer queries. But the case you cite is criminal -that is to tell the buyer to save Rs 50,000=00 but buy one from their showroom.
Not only the dealers but even the manufacturers are hand in glove. See the newly launched Xylo (even the E 8 variant), Indica Vista Aura and most of the Indian brands from the Tatas and Mahindras in the market. None of them have airbags and ABS for that matter. At least the foreign brands give this option from day one, but for a price.

notjustshrawan · 26th January 2009, 23:23

dealers? I don't think so. It's the manufacturer who is to blame, if you want to blame anyone. The dealers are just the touch point between the customer and his new car. I can assure you that dealers make more cash by selling top-end variants in comparison to the base version.

If you need an affordable car, then you'll have to settle for the base variants which don't come with safety devices like ABS or airbags, and the dealer has no blame to take. Let the government bring in rules for manufacturers to make airbags and ABS compulsory. That's the only way out of this situation. Don't blame dealers. They follow orders and ones making them are the manufacturers.

Rocky_Balboa · 27th January 2009, 00:10

Oh yeah, its the salesmen, the dealers, the manufacturers, the government, even those who make those airbags in the first place.

It doesnt take rocket science to figure out who should be aware before buying. And I think we have discussed this multiple times in multiple threads, Can we please continue in a related thread please.

Fountainheader · 27th January 2009, 00:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocky_Balboa

Oh yeah, its the salesmen, the dealers, the manufacturers, the government, even those who make those airbags in the first place.

Blame whoever you want, but the main reasons for accidents in India boils down to - bad luck and human stupidity!!

Atlblkz06 · 27th January 2009, 01:15

Lack of safety equipment does not cause accidents. That's some crazy logic you got going there.

Such cars may fail to protect the occupants in case of an accident but they are certainly no more likely to cause accidents.

ABS is NOT the best way to brake either. It exists because drivers are not smart enough to modulate their brake pedals - they just crush it.

kuttapan · 27th January 2009, 01:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by notjustshrawan

dealers? I don't think so. It's the manufacturer who is to blame, if you want to blame anyone. The dealers are just the touch point between the customer and his new car. I can assure you that dealers make more cash by selling top-end variants in comparison to the base version.
.

And just why do you think the manufacturer has the low end variants? Because our car market is not mature yet. More than half of the junta want the lower end models, safety features be damned !!

In mature markets, the Swift has no variants like Lxi, Vxi, ZXi etc. The top end model is it - it comes with all the essential features and then some more. Until the buyer becomes savvy and is ready to spend on the features, this will continue. Or legislation, but our Babus are busy collecting bribes, they don't have time for this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlblkz06

Lack of safety equipment does not cause accidents. That's some crazy logic you got going there.

Such cars may fail to protect the occupants in case of an accident but they are certainly no more likely to cause accidents.

ABS is NOT the best way to brake either. It exists because drivers are not smart enough to modulate their brake pedals - they just crush it.

ABS is not the best way to brake - this coming from a t-BHPian

. Wake up and smell the coffee, Sir. Ignorance is not always bliss, so ask more knowledgeable people, or simply, google !!

I agree with you that lack of safety equipment does not 'cause' accidents, but they are there in the unfortunate event that one might have an accident. You cannot order an airbag from a car that is hurtling into a stone wall at speed, can you? You do not take life insurance because you think you are going to die soon - but because you want your family to be better in case you do.

Raccoon · 27th January 2009, 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlblkz06

ABS is NOT the best way to brake either. It exists because drivers are not smart enough to modulate their brake pedals - they just crush it.

I must agree with this. I'v used the principle instinctively since I 1st started driving. Learnt about the theory later. And it has saved me few times what could have been serious accidents. To me, perhaps ABS wont make too much difference.... but it would still be good to have, as its possible I may make an error... but the ABS mechanism wont...

I have seen few motorcyclists just grabbing their front disc brake as hard as they could, in emergencies. No marks for guessing what might have followed... There is no substitute for human stupidity.

ritz830 · 27th January 2009, 02:35

those who disregard airbags and abs are those who dont know where the seat belts are located in their car. well, seat belts where made compulsory for a reason.

Astleviz · 27th January 2009, 03:30

Why blame the dealers? How many of the i10, swift or owners of other cars where ABS and airbags were available bought the variant with Airbags? Do we really need the dealers to tell us that ABS and airbags are a necessity and not a luxury? If the consumers don't think their life is worth 40-50,000 bucks, why should the dealers? I know of several car owners who bought a non ABS/airbag version and then went ahead and spent more than 50,000 bucks on good looking alloys and ICE.

And anyway, like atlblkz06 has said, lack of safety equipment does not cause accidents. It's a lack of brains & civic sense and disregard for other people on the road that causes accidents.

26th January 2009, 22:34	#1
pras.oct25 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Chennai Posts: 665 Thanked: 7 Times View My Garage	Are dealers responsible for more accidents happening? @mods If this is in the wrong place please move Hey guys, Was just talking to a friend of mine who's family plans to buy a car. He is still learning and cannot even drive enough to TD yet. But coming to the point. Based on my recommendation of the hyundai i10 he went to the hyundai showroom to check out the car. He also saw the swift at maruti. Apparently the sales chaps at both the showrooms have told him to compromise on the safety features as he saves up to 50k, and that he can go for the base or the middle models, because features such as abs and airbags are "not rquired in indian conditions", and he has very conveniently believed this also. I was shocked at this and gave him a big lecture as to why there are so many reasons why he SHOULD go for the safety features and not compromise on safety in indian conditions. Its very sad that the dealerships themselves dont highlight the necessary for safety. Car manufacturers also put in safety features only in the high end models, the main difference between the higher end and the lower end models of a car lie in the lack of safety features, and ppl go for the lower end cause they save 50k or more, and this in turn is largely responsible for the number of road accidents and deaths occuring. The question is, apart from the general lack of discipline of the people, are dealers who guide people in the wrong way and manufacturers who fail to incorporate enough safety into the cars they sell, one of the biggest contributors to road accidents in india? Last edited by pras.oct25 : 26th January 2009 at 22:36.
	() Thanks

26th January 2009, 22:48	#2
zaks BANNED Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 952 Thanked: 181 Times View My Garage	Safety is a relative term and whats safe for some might not be so for others so the sales guys were not at fault. Unless they are doing something which is illegal, any advice on saving money for the customer is thought of as good business practice
	() Thanks

26th January 2009, 22:54	#4
ritz830 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: chennai Posts: 355 Thanked: 4 Times	its not only dealers, its everyone. Most of us still thing ABS and airbags are not necessary. But it matters when you go fast in highways. For the new car buyers its a plus point because they are now able to get a complete Future car and not like those old ones. Also many old car owners are kinda frustrated on the new cars which come with ABS and airbags. So they give blind advices to new car buyers that these features are useless although they have no experience on this subject ABS and Airbags is the divider line between two generations of cars
	() Thanks

26th January 2009, 23:08	#7
anjan_c2007 Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: India Posts: 8,316 Thanked: 20,602 Times View My Garage	pras.oct thats true. The dealer and their salesmen have only one single goal - push up sales by hook or by crook.They are ill-informed about many technical aspects and cannot sometimes fulfil some simple customer queries. But the case you cite is criminal -that is to tell the buyer to save Rs 50,000=00 but buy one from their showroom. Not only the dealers but even the manufacturers are hand in glove. See the newly launched Xylo (even the E 8 variant), Indica Vista Aura and most of the Indian brands from the Tatas and Mahindras in the market. None of them have airbags and ABS for that matter. At least the foreign brands give this option from day one, but for a price.
	() Thanks

26th January 2009, 23:23	#8
notjustshrawan BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: chennai Posts: 88 Thanked: 59 Times	dealers? I don't think so. It's the manufacturer who is to blame, if you want to blame anyone. The dealers are just the touch point between the customer and his new car. I can assure you that dealers make more cash by selling top-end variants in comparison to the base version. If you need an affordable car, then you'll have to settle for the base variants which don't come with safety devices like ABS or airbags, and the dealer has no blame to take. Let the government bring in rules for manufacturers to make airbags and ABS compulsory. That's the only way out of this situation. Don't blame dealers. They follow orders and ones making them are the manufacturers.
	() Thanks

27th January 2009, 00:10	#9
Rocky_Balboa BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Namma Bengalooru Posts: 676 Thanked: 358 Times View My Garage	Oh yeah, its the salesmen, the dealers, the manufacturers, the government, even those who make those airbags in the first place. It doesnt take rocket science to figure out who should be aware before buying. And I think we have discussed this multiple times in multiple threads, Can we please continue in a related thread please. Last edited by Rocky_Balboa : 27th January 2009 at 00:12.
	() Thanks

27th January 2009, 01:15	#11
Atlblkz06 BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Atlanta Posts: 164 Thanked: 20 Times	Lack of safety equipment does not cause accidents. That's some crazy logic you got going there. Such cars may fail to protect the occupants in case of an accident but they are certainly no more likely to cause accidents. ABS is NOT the best way to brake either. It exists because drivers are not smart enough to modulate their brake pedals - they just crush it. Last edited by Atlblkz06 : 27th January 2009 at 01:16.
	() Thanks

27th January 2009, 02:35	#14
ritz830 BHPian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: chennai Posts: 355 Thanked: 4 Times	those who disregard airbags and abs are those who dont know where the seat belts are located in their car. well, seat belts where made compulsory for a reason.
	() Thanks

27th January 2009, 03:30	#15
Astleviz BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Panjim, Goa Posts: 370 Thanked: 174 Times	Why blame the dealers? How many of the i10, swift or owners of other cars where ABS and airbags were available bought the variant with Airbags? Do we really need the dealers to tell us that ABS and airbags are a necessity and not a luxury? If the consumers don't think their life is worth 40-50,000 bucks, why should the dealers? I know of several car owners who bought a non ABS/airbag version and then went ahead and spent more than 50,000 bucks on good looking alloys and ICE. And anyway, like atlblkz06 has said, lack of safety equipment does not cause accidents. It's a lack of brains & civic sense and disregard for other people on the road that causes accidents.
	() Thanks