[amitk26]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

about the mHawk, got concrete news from a mahindra insider who is a friend of mine. sorry, cannot reveal name or position due to obvious reasons.
the mHawk engine was a totally indegenious project. it was built in-house & the engine design was done by mahindra. AVL has helped mahindra in the design of certain components like fuel pump, mahindra engineers had given them the specifications & requirements, AVL helped them with the design of such components. bosch supplies the common rail system.

@ eddy: sorry buddy, cant give you proof or any documentation, but i have no reasons to disbelief this guy who gave me this info.

I really do not know how reliable is your source or how much he actually know ( No offense) because the mHawk fuel pump is Bosch.
BTW : Engine design means size of bore ,stroke length , Cam shaft , Cam timings and injection timings AFAIK AVL provides this data.

Common Rail and Injectors are most complicated peace and Bosch sells them.

EDIT : Peace I am signing off from this thread technical collaboration is an area where no hard data can be provided on how much percentage each partner did so everyone claims mostly done by us with little inputs from other.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by amitk26

EDIT : Peace I am signing off from this thread technical collaboration is an area where no hard data can be provided on how much percentage each partner did so everyone claims mostly done by us with little inputs from other.

As i said, he has not given me any details on who helped whom by what amount but regarding what he knows, definetely more than both of us!

how can you be so sure that AVL provided all the data you listed? why do you think an indian company like mahindra cannot make an engine like the mHawk?

exactly, you ended it well.
cheers.

@ shankar: very well said indeed. as a company, i have more respect for mahindra. its products are far more successful & reliable. mahindra launches a product every 5-6 years, only after thoroughly studying the market & proper R&D on the vehicle. people are ready to invest lakhs in their product knowing that its a small humble 'tractor making company' as commented by someone in this forum.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

As i said, he has not given me any details on who helped whom by what amount but regarding what he knows, definetely more than both of us!

Well you might be aware that Bosch has a big development center in bangalore and Manufacturing facility ( MICO ) which is couple of KM away from my home and a few Engineers working there stay in my building so ....

Originally Posted by raj_5004

how can you be so sure that AVL provided all the data you listed? why do you think an indian company like mahindra cannot make an engine like the mHawk?

exactly, you ended it well.

AVL provided the design consultancy ( A fact acknowledged and advertised for US market by M&M see the previous links) and engine design other then Common Rail , Fuel pump and injectors ( Bosch expertise) exactly mean these things.

If M&M or Tata could gain the expertise in these crucial area they will never pay millions of dollers for design consultency to AVL , 2.2 Engine blocks for both Safari and mHwack are exactly same because AVL is common factor.

Once you have basic engine design tweaking it for 140 BHP ( Safari) or 120 BHP (Grande , Scorpio , Xylo) is not a big deal.

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

@ shankar: very well said indeed. as a company, i have more respect for mahindra. its products are far more successful & reliable. mahindra launches a product every 5-6 years, only after thoroughly studying the market & proper R&D on the vehicle. people are ready to invest lakhs in their product knowing that its a small humble 'tractor making company' as commented by someone in this forum.

Are you a M&M spokesperson by any chance?, if not the company would do well to recruit you.

[raj_5004]

@ rrsteer: no, till now i am not! but thanks a lot for your good wishes. god bless you!

[marlinspike]

My vote for xylo as the interior design was entirely done in India and has taken into account the Indian needs. True the quality is a tad below par but not unacceptable. that would be fixed over time like the vista got the issues from indica fixed a fair bit.

Car have been around for some time and Vista is a evolutionary product where it has made significant strides compared to its predecessor but it is not that much of a success
compared to xylo in their respective segments.

Xylo is also more suited to the taxi segment and the still large rural families.

[guptad42]

Originally Posted by GTO

...
Another perspective : My garage - of a German car, a Japanese sedan & a product each from Tata & Mahindra - would welcome a Vista Quadrajet (if a hatch were required). However, even if I were looking at moving 6 people around, the Xylo wouldn't be on my shortlist at all. I'd pick the Vista over its Japanese / Korean competition, but I wouldn't choose the Xylo over its foreign alternatives.

GTO, You surprised me! Not by the vote over the Xylo, but by thepreference over Japanese/Korean competition. I need a hatch, primarily for city and occasional long-distance driving. Vista is tentalising, but I'm finding it hard to commit to it with the backdrop of poor reliability and service history. The vista being called it an Indica is almost an insult.

So, seriously, which cars do you consider as Vista's competition (yes, Japanese, Korean and any other) and why will you pick Vista over them?

Guess we deserve to know!

[greenhorn]

now that the Xylo has ABS, its case is stronger.

On the other hand , the vista was promised to have airbags and ABS within a few months at launch , and still no sign of airbags or ABS

The vista according to my knowledge comes under the small car segment, and the xylo in the family one. Xylo is not a copy or a new version scorpio as quoted by many , The xylo comes in the market as an affordable family car unlike the innova whose price is exhorbitant, and the xylo compared to the innova is available at Rs. 2L less than the latter and the space inside the car is also good. Xylo has a good turning radius and thus fits for a buy by anyone who is intending to go for a family car.

Vista does have new features which tata has improved after the problems occured in the earlier version (indica) but this is just a minor change and considering the fact that tata has not changed the engine or even upgraded it there is no point increasing the price of the vista.

This is where i can clearly choose the Xylo.

[ACM]

Originally Posted by sandeep sharma

The vista according to my knowledge comes under the small car segment, and the xylo in the family one. Xylo is not a copy or a new version scorpio as quoted by many ,

Vista does have new features which tata has improved after the problems occured in the earlier version (indica) but this is just a minor change and considering the fact that tata has not changed the engine or even upgraded it there is no point increasing the price of the vista.

This is where i can clearly choose the Xylo.

Though you are quite aware of the Xylo origins your awareness regarding the vista is low.

It is a 100% new car NOT based on the earlier Indica platfrom. I has the new Fiat Quadrajet engine. (their highest selling engine for the Vista)

It is a huge step up in interiors, look, ergonomics etc, over the earlier Indica, so may be you need to relook at the opinion you just shared.

By the way welcome to TBHP

[discoverwild]

My vote to the Vista.

The Vista, as the new generation, has improved in all aspects from its erstwhile cousin, the Indica. All departments including fit, finish, space, ride, handling, engine and looks.

The Xylo, as a newer generation to the Scorpio, has only improved on space - everything else is still the same - shabby handling, bouncy ride, high center of gravity, no great improvement in quality interiors, odd-ball looks.

[.anshuman]

I voted for the Vista.

I have driven a Indica v2 diesel for ~1,50,000 kms, and when i drove the Vista for the first time the improvement compared to the previous gen car was clearly evident even from the first kilometer i drove it, Everything feels much better compared to the previous generation car. Tata did the best thing by choosing to outsource the engine from Fiat but they messed up the image of the car by naming it Indica Vista.

Xylo on the other end was aimed at Innova but missed the target but very good pricing meant it was instant success. Mahindra used the Scorpio experience to develop Xylo and covered most shortcomings like interiors but what they did not realize is that they are not good in dynamics and they should outsource the job of Designing and developing steering and suspension components to some experienced company in the west.

[ananth_iy]

I chose the Xylo - since it was a completely new platform. The Vista did not quite come across as a new platform. Some of us had problems seeing the difference between the Indica V2 and the Vista.

If you had posted the poll to be between the Nano and the Xylo, I would have definitely voted the Nano. The Nano is definitely a car that has revolutionized and evolutionized (if I may use that word) the auto industry. Now we have every car manufacturer in the world scrambling to build a cheaper car.

[Jerry68]

XYLO XYLO XYLO
Why because I own it and have driven it daily (with all the negatives there in front of my mind from all these fora)
Other than the door handles which look flimsy - yet have not given way as suggested by so many I feel its a winner on all counts, small nitty gritty things in a vehicle for this cost is something we have to keep in mind - Total VFM
You pay more - You can and should get more
It is an ACE to handle, feels and looks awesome on the road and I think by now everyone has settled down with the 'look' angry or sad or whatever chooses your fancy
Reminds me rather of the Standard Herald, M800, Wagon R and so many more that people loved to hate when first launced yet will they still do so??
As I would say Vista is Good but Xylo is better
Proof of the pudding is in the driving
Cheers

[Jerry68]

The Xylo, as a newer generation to the Scorpio, has only improved on space - everything else is still the same - shabby handling, bouncy ride, high center of gravity, no great improvement in quality interiors, odd-ball looks.[/quote]

Pics speak a thousand words
Comment after seeing these

The Xylo, as a newer generation to the Scorpio, has only improved on space - everything else is still the same - shabby handling, bouncy ride, high center of gravity, no great improvement in quality interiors, odd-ball looks.[/quote]


Have a look at these interiors and tell me what more you want in a sub 10Lakh class

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