[extreme_torque]

Brilliant post shortbread. We always undermine ourselves and our achievement and its about time we changed ourselves.

[greenhorn]

tata has enough problems when trying to design a high quality product - vista, safari etc. I cant imagine how much worse it can get when it wants to make something cheap

[jkdas]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

tata has enough problems when trying to design a high quality product - vista, safari etc. I cant imagine how much worse it can get when it wants to make something cheap

People like you

Tata and hence will make only cheap products? Havent they made things better with the Vista and Safari? Did you check out the Nano ? No right?

And its cheap? It costs 180 OTR atleast for the top end. Its small and doesnt have too many fancy stuff inside/outside it ; that make's it 'cheap'.

So who all BOOKED?

My cousin booked one.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Its set a bencmark for other carmakers to follow.

kindest regards

BRAVO!

That post was so incredible, it gave me goosebumps.

It is posts such as these that make this forum so special - thank you, shortbread.

[amitk26]

+ 1 to that shortbread;
For those who cite Tata Niggles as a reason to buy 800 instead of nano.

A look at Swift threads can be educational same kind of issues were non issues for 800 buyers for so many years but at price point of Swift there are endless threads discussing the rattles / squeaks / niggles.

The perspective of buyers at different price point is different and demand of solid thud door closing instead of plastic rattle may not be an issue when it comes to Maruti 800 and Nano,

[greenhorn]

yup, checked it out when i went there last saturday to get my fuse changed.

Either way, it looks good , but my question is , will it last? For ex, its wheel bearings are rated for 75kmph or so. If you drive it any faster, they will wear out pretty soon.

like the dude said about the tyres. God knows what else they have compromised on in the design department to meet costs. One would imagine that they would have used better stuff for at least the higer versions, but I'm not sure.

We all knew how good the vista looked like in the showrooms, felt when we sat inside, and TD'd them. But a little while later, some of them have issues with the beadings going loose, and the "soft feel fabric" starting to come off the dashboard.But I guess thankfully that they are minor issues, since the engines etc are all tried and tested designs.

Hey, I never said tata makes cheap products. When their best attempts at the good stuff are just adequate, I was wondering what it would be like when they decide to make a cheap product.
I dont need soft feel plastics. I dont want round air con vents or height adjustments and luxuries like that. I myself own a car the interiors of which are arguably worse in look and feel than the nano. But I would want it to be mechanically sound. That - only time can tell....

PS: I too wanted to put the deposit down for one. Dad's vertigo has shown up again and he's not allowed to ride a bike now. But these issues and no CVT means I'm holding off for now. probably wait for the diesel nano V2

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

yup, checked it out when i went there last saturday to get my fuse changed.

Either way, it looks good , but my question is , will it last? For ex, its wheel bearings are rated for 75kmph or so. If you drive it any faster, they will wear out pretty soon.
.

And what is the source of information that bearings are rated for 75 Kmph in a car with top speed of 105 Kmph ?
Also what is basis of assumption that 5 tyres can not be supplied in 6000 Rs for bulk order with out compromise on quality when in retail you can buy 5 cross ply tyres for 7500 Rs ?

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by amitk26

And what is the source of information that bearings are rated for 75 Kmph in a car with top speed of 105 Kmph ?

seems that it is lesser. its rated at 45 mph, which translates to 72 odd kmph
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/bu...acar.html?_r=1

To save $10, Tata engineers redesigned the suspension to eliminate actuators in the headlights, the levelers that adjust the angle of the beam depending on how the car is loaded, according to Mr. Chaturvedi of Lumax. In lieu of the solid steel beam that typically connects steering wheels to axles, one supplier, Sona Koyo Steering Systems, used a hollow tube, said Kiran Deshmukh, the chief operating officer of the company, which is based in Delhi.
Tata chose wheel bearings that are strong enough to drive the car up to 45 miles an hour, but they will wear quickly above that speed, reducing the car’s life span but not threatening consumer safety, according to Mr. Taneja.

[muni]

@shortbread: fantastic post. You said it all and more.

@greenhorn:
No offense meant but have read many of your posts and you always seem to give an impression that TATA products lack quality. You have something against them or you have a wicked grin when people discuss about TATA's lack of quality. That's some kind of pleasure you have going in here.

[abhinav.gupta88]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Dear YcBaleno,

The Nano was never a product from a charitable organization, at 1 lac the Nano sold for another 10 years, i don't think you'd explain to the Tata board as to how they'd recur their losses..
.
.
.
.

Theres nothing personal here YcBaleno. But cant agree with the point that the Nano is to shrugged away as a poor competitor to an 800. Its set a bencmark for other carmakers to follow.

kindest regards

Wow. Hats off to you. Excellent points well explained and understood.

@ Any list as to who all have booked on team-bhp?

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by muni

@shortbread: fantastic post. You said it all and more.

@greenhorn:
No offense meant but have read many of your posts and you always seem to give an impression that TATA products lack quality. You have something against them or you have a wicked grin when people discuss about TATA's lack of quality. That's some kind of pleasure you have going in here.

@ muni and others who might be of the opinion that I'm a tata basher.If you think that i only bash tata in all my posts, then you haven't read all of them.

Yes, I do bash tata - but only because I feel that a little constructive criticsm didnt hurt anybody. As you can see from my sig, I myself own a tata car, with which I'm very happy with, and know several people who have bought a tata car on my recommendation alone, and including who just put his money down for a CS Dicor.

But that doesnt mean that they are perfect. I'm just a realistic tata owner. And i do have a vested interest in tata selling less nanos ( the TASC's are clogged up already and nobody gives a second glance at us there until the calls from pune start coming, and i cant even imagine when the nanos are all on the road, and worse , in the TASC's - and its gonna be especially worse if there are gonna be problems with the nano like there were with the indica V1's, and i see every chance.)

Tata has certainly come a long way. And the nano is proof of that. one might even argue that I am not the nano's target audience. maybe I'm not. But tata still needs a long way to go, at least as far ar consistency is concerned.

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

Originally Posted by shortbread

Theres nothing personal here YcBaleno. But cant agree with the point that the Nano is to shrugged away as a poor competitor to an 800. Its set a bencmark for other carmakers to follow.

kindest regards

Now, that you have made such a great point(s), I would not go to great lengths to reply to all of them, just because no way do they justify the shortcomings of the nano, rather its more of playing with words and creating an illusion so as to defy the shortcomings of tata's supposedly 'revolutionary' product. Comparing a Nano with an 800 is a bit too far fetched as per you, fine, 60 k is a great deal. Agreed. But then is not Nano for a family who just own a scooter/125cc commuter? Now, for those who can barely spend 50K on a two wheeler, how on earth do you or Mr.TATA expect them to spend another 80K on the nano? So is it still revolutonary?
And for those who had a two wheeler and desperately needed a car for 1 lakh rs, I guess we have a used car mart full of easy to own and maintenance free options. And why bring OMNI in comparison? How many family of fours buy OMNI anyways?


To be very frank, I did not took the pleasure/trouble to go thru your 2048 words in the post because all you were talking about have already been heard and read about in magazines and tata's press statements.

Now, whats revolutionary for you?

1) For a price of a used 800 (2 year old), you are getting a new car ?

2) Or is it revolutionary because Tata showed everyone how to build a car so cheap, by omitting even SUN VISORS on base models?

3) Or, is it revolutionary because with just drum brakes all around,it just made the very unsafe 800, look much more safer?

4) Or, is it revolutionary because during its introduction to media/press/auto-journalist, Tata asked them not to write about the CONS of the product and did not even have them a look at the engine!?

5) Or, is it revolutionary because to achieve respectable fuel economy, the tyres on it have been developed to last just 15k kms?



The list can just go on, however point remains, that Nano as a revolutionary product is a mere Humbug, for neither is it revolutionary, nor is it a breakthru in affordable motoring.

In all the hype around Nano, let us not forget that CHEAP does not mean VFM

As I have said, on a logical thinking, there are more things going against the Nano and the Hype around it, and my list could go on, but then I have already wasted enough time talking on a product like Nano. Most of us teambhpians are clever enough when it comes to cars and its a matter of time when Nano will lose the hype around it.

The 800 does have a more powerful engine than the Nano, Agreed. But not much considering the car costs 50% more. The 800 only produces 10.8% more power (37bhp & 33bhp respectively) and 18.6% more torque (59 Nm vs 48 Nm). But do consider that 800 is 12.7% more heavier than the Nano (665 kgs vs 580 kgs), So if you take the power to weight ratio into account (800-665kgs/37bhp vs Nano- 580kgs/33bhp) the 800 only pips it by a mere 2.6%. So for the 50% increase in price you are getting a 2.6% increase in actual power. How the above said calculations reflect in real life is questionable but one can easily assume that the Nano has enough power to go about daily chores similarly to the 800 has done for all these years.

Now this is an interesting bit. Am amazed why you forgot the acceleration?

With just 2.6% increase in power, 800 is quicker to 60kmph by 2 seconds, not much and then 800 is quicker to 100kmph by a whopping 15 seconds! See, how much difference with just 2.6% increase in power!! Not to mention that 800 can touch 140kmph, if shown a very long stretch and nano manages just 105kmph.
Also, if you think that Nano does all that the 800 has been doing, I am really sorry to inform you but you are wrong.
You forgot my earlier point that we Indians have been proudly taking 800s to highways, now will you or anyone dare do that in a Nano?
AND with a 'whopping' 80 litres of boot space, or the lack of it, how many shopping bags do you think a nano may accomodate?


And, yes nothing personal here too, If it would had been any other car I would had tried to look for apt justification for all the points you had made, but Nano is simply not worth it, it clearly shows that its far from Revolutionary, and TATA indeed is cashing upon the hype it has created, but in reality Nano is just a cheaper (not necessarily better) alternative as a SECOND car for going to the grocers and dropping children to the school.


Regards.

[srishiva]

Would not buy one. Ratan Tata is very much concerned about the Middle class (the middle class I know can afford bigger cars than Nano). Should have thought about the environment also. After seeing an ad in the UK for A-star, the A-star CO2 emission is equal to that of tiny nano engine.

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

Originally Posted by srishiva

Would not buy one. Ratan Tata is very much concerned about the Middle class (the middle class I know can afford bigger cars than Nano). Should have thought about the environment also. After seeing an ad in the UK for A-star, the A-star CO2 emission is equal to that of tiny nano engine.

Yes, and that surely is the way to go. A-star is the third-most cleanest Gasoline powered car in Europe.
And yes, the middle class TATA had talked about while introducing nano were the people who could at the most afford a 150cc bike, on the contrary the product they have launched is for the middle class who were looking for used 800s or second car for city use. And the 'middle class' TATA had been talking about while introducing Nano , wont be able to buy that puny car for atleast a couple of years to come, when nano may filter into used car mart.


Regards.

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

Yes, and that surely is the way to go. A-star is the third-most cleanest Gasoline powered car in Europe.
And yes, the middle class TATA had talked about while introducing nano were the people who could at the most afford a 150cc bike, on the contrary the product they have launched is for the middle class who were looking for used 800s or second car for city use. And the 'middle class' TATA had been talking about while introducing Nano , wont be able to buy that puny car for atleast a couple of years to come, when nano may filter into used car mart.


Regards.

If you want to ride the emissions high horse, the nano'e emissions are supposed to be less than that of a two wheeler, and with a two wheeler, you'd have to travel thrice the distance at least to carry 4 people ( God knows how many times we've shuttled my family on a bike this way ) so effectively 3x the emissions with a bike. Else you'd have to buy two bikes.

Not such a bad deal now eh ?

especially considering the fact that the m800 and the omni which you speak highly of do not meet BS IV norms and will be phased out. What will families buy then ?