[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by sdmn

Really? I've driven a Verna CRDI for the last 8 months and 15000 km now - have never seen a Fiesta TDCi performing like that. A few Fiesta TDCi drivers have at times tried their hand at this when zooming off from signals, and I have watched them go farther and farther away in my rear view mirror!

If there is a test drive data that got you this information, kindly share that so that I could go through that.

Warm regards,
Sandeep

What about Airbags in case if in your quest of leaving Fiesta's or Linea's behind, something suddenly comes in front of you on the road?

[sdmn]

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

What about Airbags in case if in your quest of leaving Fiesta's or Linea's behind, something suddenly comes in front of you on the road?

VahanPujari, by the way I liked your ID.

Coming to air bags, certainly is a deficiency in the Verna. That's where the driver's maturity and skill comes into picture. There are innumerable situations where I have allowed even hatchbacks to overtake me in the highways - because on dividerless Indian highways (except few new highways), a slight miscalculation can mean a head on collision, and in a head on collision with an oncoming truck in India, even airbags may not be of much help!

Having said that, that's why every car has its own strengths and weaknesses. Each one is a package, and every owner picks his package! I know that the Accent 2006 to 2009 range in the US (which is India's Verna) come with 6 airbags! This is the only feature that Hyundai compromises on when it sells its global cars in India. Even that has changed with i10 and i20 which come with airbag options.

Warm regards,
Sandeep

[reignofchaos]

Verna handles worse than a sailboat. I've still to find another car that handles worse than it.

Its chassis is simply incapable of putting all that power down effectively. Look at the number of crashed vernas at any hyundai service center - it dwarfs every other car.

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by sdmn

VahanPujari, by the way I liked your ID.

sdmn - Sure, the ID has some meaning. Its not just 4 random letters like abcd or pqrs

somehow, for guys who like POWER in the car, shouldn't their 1st priority to be Airbags. for all we know, we all drive carefully, i mean no one drives recklessly just to get head on with a truck right? thats why people take life & general insurance policies, for what if it happens. right? So?

If sdmn's 2nd point that Hyundai does not give airbags here in Verna which it gives in similar model in US/ others is true, then Hyundai is not thinking highly of indian customers. in any case without airbags (which it ought to give in verna in india like in other countries), its an awfully costly affair .

[sdmn]

Vahanpujari, by 4 random letters, did you mean my ID? Even if you did, I don't mind. Well, mine is not random. sd is for Sandeep and mn is for Menon I find that short and convenient!

Guys, I've heard this sailboat type comparisons earlier too. Although I do not agree with it, and have not found what really this crib about handling the Verna really is, trust me, you can use such comparisons for some or the other aspect of every car in India except perhaps the Mercedes Benzes and the BMW's of the world. Even for those cars, it just depends where you draw your line in your demands. Every car is a package guys. You pick your package.

Like I said, granted that air bags in the Verna are a deficiency - no two views about that - however, for owners who are turned on by sheer power, and who handle it responsibly, there's nothing that can beat the Verna in that category. The Verna gives you this with features like automatic climate control and other features you expect in this category.

Talking about Blue and Me in Linea which is bragged about so much - how many of us want to pick a call when our passengers are listening in to the conversation on the audio system speakers? And how many of us want our sms'es to be read out the same way with everybody listening? Good technology - but will it sell? Verna's features on the other hand are practical and useful. Not to mention Fiat's A.S.S in India which they still haven't corrected. In spite of bleeding so much in India, Fiat did not think it is important to invest in their own service network. Fiat makes wonderful engines and great cars - but they know only too well that in this business A.S.S is as and more important than just the car design and performance.

Fiesta's cramped rear seating, it's power deficient TDCi engine, and a very poor service network in India will stop most from touching that car.

Other options like Mitsubishi lancer - like I said - may be a great car - but not a great package. The overall experience needs to be good. That's why sales volumes of the Verna, Fiesta and SX4, speak for themselves. You know which is the best package from the numbers.

Another point - while I do not contest the fact that airbags are needed, the Verna certainly comes with ABS. I opted for ABS and have seen it working really well for me in 4 or 5 situations in the last 8 months, where without ABS it could have been dangerous.

VaahanPujari - Hyundai is the only car maker in India which treats Indian customers at par with global ones. Their Indian cars sell with the same specs everywhere including India. Hyundai is known for quality and reliability - globally, including in India. Look at Santro, i10, i20, Getz - all global cars. India was given the i10 before it was launched globally!
Verna airbag issue is one among the very very few differences / exceptions you will find. That too is because of the ridiculous excise and duty structure in India for big cars.

It's up to you which package you choose.

Sandeep

[lamborghini]

Originally Posted by sdmn

Guys, I've heard this sailboat type comparisons earlier too. Although I do not agree with it, and have not found what really this crib about handling the Verna really is, trust me, you can use such comparisons for some or the other aspect of every car in India except perhaps the Mercedes Benzes and the BMW's of the world.

Hey Sandeep,
In comparison to cars such as the fiesta which feel rock solid at speed, the Verna simply doesn't give such confidence and hence, in comparison to the fiesta, people have linked the Verna's handling to that of a sailboat. Of course, there are those who can handle a sailboat very well and may not even notice the handling of the Verna at speed.

Originally Posted by sdmn

Every car is a package guys. You pick your package.

Couldn't have said it better myself buddy. At the end of the day, this thread will have no definite answer because everyone who has posted here has posted from their viewpoint. I find the Fiesta to be the best because it meets my requirements the best in spite of the fact that the engine runs out of breath at higher speeds and that it is cramped. Similarly, you enjoy your Verna the most because you like the performance and what not.

Originally Posted by sdmn

Like I said, granted that air bags in the Verna are a deficiency - no two views about that - however, for owners who are turned on by sheer power, and who handle it responsibly, there's nothing that can beat the Verna in that category. The Verna gives you this with features like automatic climate control and other features you expect in this category.

See, once again it depends on person to person. The previous versions of the Verna didn't even come with wheelcaps! Given that the car has a higher price, I would expect it to come with alloys. I don't care about ACC. As far as I am concerned, either its on fully cold or the windows are down. In this category, it is now becoming the norm to offer variants with ABS and Airbags. A.C.C is not as important in this category, but given how the Verna is priced between the fiesta and cars such as the Optra and Civic, it becomes a necessity.
Also, the lack of Airbags in a car such as the Verna is a serious disappointment. Sure, you can argue that people should handle the power responsibly, but there are people who may lack that common sense and you can read about various accidents involving the Verna and high speed driving/chases that resulted in fatalties that could have been avoided.

Originally Posted by sdmn

Fiesta's cramped rear seating, it's power deficient TDCi engine, and a very poor service network in India will stop most from touching that car.

As you said, it depends on what a customer wants from his car. I like the fiesta because the engine is tourqey and powerful in the city and given that most of the times, the car is used by 2 people, I don't care about the rear seat space. Also, I am quite happy with the reliability of Fords. Also, for me, visibility, quality, FE, ease of driving and good handling were important and that is why I prefer the fiesta.

Originally Posted by sdmn

The overall experience needs to be good. That's why sales volumes of the Verna, Fiesta and SX4, speak for themselves. You know which is the best package from the numbers.

Not really. This is India, where people buy the car based on the brand rather than what they want from the car. Look around, you will see people being driven around in BMW's. Doesn't mean that the BMW is poor to drive and very comfortable to sit in does it?

Originally Posted by sdmn

Hyundai is the only car maker in India which treats Indian customers at par with global ones. Their Indian cars sell with the same specs everywhere including India. Hyundai is known for quality and reliability - globally, including in India. Look at Santro, i10, i20, Getz - all global cars. India was given the i10 before it was launched globally!
Verna airbag issue is one among the very very few differences / exceptions you will find. That too is because of the ridiculous excise and duty structure in India for big cars.

I would like to agree as well as disagree with that fact. Till recently, Hyundai was known for making poor quality cheap cars, similar to Skoda, globally (hope they don't instigate me for this!). Things have changed due to their amazing warranties on offer in countries like USA. However, in those countries, one would rarely see a Hyundai + the resale values of those vehicles will be much lower than a similar Honda and Toyota.
However, I do agree that Hyundai is launching their entire lineup in India, and unlike other manufacturers, it does offer good customer service and reliability, with competitively priced spares.
I will still disagree with the equipment levels though. Please go to their international website and see what goodies we miss out on, but then again, the market isn't ready to pay for many of them. I do commend Hyundai for launching the i20 with 6 airbag option, the i10 with a good auto, the Verna with the beautiful 110 bhp engine, the Sonata Transform CRDi etc.
While my preferences on this thread are towards the Fiesta TDCi, it is because Ford met my requirements better than Hyundai. If I were looking for a city hatchback, I would definitely choose a Hyundai i10/Santro A/T, or a Getz CRDi too. Similarly, I am waiting for the new Elantra to come out as it could be a good step up from the fiesta, a few years down the line.

BTW, some of the criticism of Hyundai, would apply to Ford as well and I do not deny that. Hope you don't take anything personally.

Cheers!

[sdmn]

Lamborghini, agree with you.

Want to add just one aspect about Hyundai's global reputation. From being known as the 'cheaper alternative' in US, they are now becoming the more 'reliable and quality' car maker.

One can't even begin comparing the Indian market to US - they are distinct. Be it the ground clearance, the cheaper diesel, the need for a powerful engine on Indian highways (relevant to the Verna CRDI), the service network or, believe it since it is happening on the ground - the brand image. Hyundai is already world no.5, and rising - the only serious competition it is going to face in the coming years, is from Toyota and Honda in any market.

It is just that in the US, Hyundai has to fight the ’traditional good perception’ on which Ford and GM have been riding on for a while now. Wait and watch - you will have Toyota, Honda and Hyundai as the global top 3 - in any order. In India, Hyundai doesn’t have the ’brand image’ challenge it faces in US - Hyundai gets to build its image from scratch - and it has made sure it has got the India pulse exactly right. Hyundai Verna sales speak for themselves.

In India, Hyundai is now known for quality and solid reliable cars. I doubt if Ford is even equal in that regard in India.

Amen!

[pras.oct25]

A note on this sailboat discussion.
First of all - hyundai is the first to stand up and say that theyve got a soft suspension setting on the verna. I used to wonder why they used to be so proud about it. But over time I have realized how effective the suspension is when your doing doing decent speeds on a relatively poor road, with 1/2 people in the car, or with the car loaded. I dont feel a thing under these circumstances.
Second of all - Given the poor quality of Indian roads, I have personally seen how bouncy all cars are. I have driven my uncle's fiesta, and I didnt find much difference in the drive of my verna or his fiesta, except tht the fiesta steering is heavier. I have also seen hondas bouncing all over the place on the routes I take to work everyday.
Third of all - I dont see much scope for taking curves at 100 km/hr on Indian roads. For safety purposes anyone who is taking curves like that should be told not to do it. The verna corners decently and it all comes down to how far we push our cars.
Lastly - Turbo lag can be a pain. But that shortlag gives us just that bit of breathing space for the turbo boost that will leave the others gaping after that.
Go verna!!

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by pras.oct25

Second of all - Given the poor quality of Indian roads, I have personally seen how bouncy all cars are. I have driven my uncle's fiesta, and I didnt find much difference in the drive of my verna or his fiesta, except tht the fiesta steering is heavier. I have also seen hondas bouncing all over the place on the routes I take to work everyday.

Turn both the verna and fiesta at 50-60km/hr. You'd notice how much the verna rolls. If the folks on the rear seat don't have seatbelts on, they'd be all over each other. On the fiesta, you'd see no such drama.

The perception that a super soft suspension gives good ride quality is nothing but a myth. The real truth is that the suspension must be decently stiff for the ride quality to be good. If the suspension is too soft, the car would end up wallowing every time you turn and the slow rebound rate of the suspension would at times make the ride worse than it could have been. The handling would be severely compromised because of body roll and the rear passengers would have a hard time even at not so high speeds.

Third of all - I dont see much scope for taking curves at 100 km/hr on Indian roads. For safety purposes anyone who is taking curves like that should be told not to do it. The verna corners decently and it all comes down to how far we push our cars.

If you had a car with chassis/brakes/suspension capable of taking curves at 100 routinely, you'd not be saying that. What speeds you can do completely depends on the car you are driving. If a verna feels unstable at 100, you better not go beyond it. However if your car is stable and completely in control at 150, there's no harm in doing such speeds.

Lastly - Turbo lag can be a pain. But that shortlag gives us just that bit of breathing space for the turbo boost that will leave the others gaping after that.
Go verna!!

Err having driven enough turbo diesels, I'd say by the time you blokes with turbos get into the turbo band, we petrolheads would already have disappeared .

[pras.oct25]

My comments in bold

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Turn both the verna and fiesta at 50-60km/hr. You'd notice how much the verna rolls. If the folks on the rear seat don't have seatbelts on, they'd be all over each other. On the fiesta, you'd see no such drama.

The perception that a super soft suspension gives good ride quality is nothing but a myth. The real truth is that the suspension must be decently stiff for the ride quality to be good. If the suspension is too soft, the car would end up wallowing every time you turn and the slow rebound rate of the suspension would at times make the ride worse than it could have been. The handling would be severely compromised because of body roll and the rear passengers would have a hard time even at not so high speeds.
I speak only after having driven my car for the last 6 months. I have personally seen that the suspension behaves very very well at higher speeds.

If you had a car with chassis/brakes/suspension capable of taking curves at 100 routinely, you'd not be saying that. What speeds you can do completely depends on the car you are driving. If a verna feels unstable at 100, you better not go beyond it. However if your car is stable and completely in control at 150, there's no harm in doing such speeds.
No car in india is capable of doing a turn at 150. Not even the fiesta. And personally I think its just down right irresponsible to be trying stunts like that in our country.


Err having driven enough turbo diesels, I'd say by the time you blokes with turbos get into the turbo band, we petrolheads would already have disappeared .

Perhaps you and I should have a drag sometime. Its been 6 months - not a single petrol head has outrun my car. I am keeping count, and the count is 0. Again...

[reignofchaos]

[quote=pras.oct25;1236237]My comments in bold

I speak only after having driven my car for the last 6 months. I have personally seen that the suspension behaves very very well at higher speeds.
[quote]
I beg to differ - the steering has no feel and it rolls like a sailboat. Please drive a vRS/Cedia/Fiesta S(note the S) for a while and then comment.

No car in india is capable of doing a turn at 150. Not even the fiesta. And personally I think its just down right irresponsible to be trying stunts like that in our country.
Perhaps you and I should have a drag sometime. Its been 6 months - not a single petrol head has outrun my car. I am keeping count, and the count is 0. Again...

I routinely take the Mysore road curves at 150. There's nothing - absolutely nothing dangerous or irresponsible in that. Bottle has followed me in his palio 1.6 at similar speeds without risking either himself or anyone else.. I'm sure the elantra/vRS boys do the same as well. Not so sure if a verna can do so though because of the lame chassis. It'd just understeer into the divider.

Please let me know when you are in bangalore next time. Its time to know there are faster cars out there . Its just not me - a colleague of mine has both a cedia and verna at home. He hates the road manners of the verna on the highway but finds it decent enough in the city at low city speeds.

[pras.oct25]

[quote=reignofchaos;1236253][quote=pras.oct25;1236237]My comments in bold

I speak only after having driven my car for the last 6 months. I have personally seen that the suspension behaves very very well at higher speeds.

I beg to differ - the steering has no feel and it rolls like a sailboat. Please drive a vRS/Cedia/Fiesta S(note the S) for a while and then comment.

I routinely take the Mysore road curves at 150. There's nothing - absolutely nothing dangerous or irresponsible in that. Bottle has followed me in his palio 1.6 at similar speeds without risking either himself or anyone else.. I'm sure the elantra/vRS boys do the same as well. Not so sure if a verna can do so though because of the lame chassis. It'd just understeer into the divider.

Please let me know when you are in bangalore next time. Its time to know there are faster cars out there . Its just not me - a colleague of mine has both a cedia and verna at home. He hates the road manners of the verna on the highway but finds it decent enough in the city at low city speeds.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble - "Fiesta vs linea vs verna - which is the best DIESEL" - the fiesta S doesnt figure in this conversation. In fact no petrols should figure in it.
On my last trip to bangalore I hit 170 in my verna. I guess sometimes you have to put it down to how you handle the car as well. Some people are comfortable with the way their cars handle and some arent. As far as I'm concerned, I wouldnt trade my verna in for any other car. This after having driven the fiesta. Anyway, this argument has been held between a million other verna and fiesta owners before. It never gets anywhere. To reach a settlement - I guess the fiesta and the verna both have their strengths and weaknesses. some people are willing to trade speed for rigid handling and chassis. Others like me, didnt enjoy that kind of a ride and preferred the speed and smoothness offered by the verna, even if it meant that the suspension and handling were dependant on how the car was driven. Driver skill is of utmost importance - if your telling me you can take a curve on 150 in one car, but arent good enough to avoid the divider in the other car - avoid blaming the car cause your going to end up with a lot of mad verna owners!
Its amazing how the verna vs fiesta debate can make people forget about the linea on these discussions everytime...

[kpzen]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Verna handles worse than a sailboat.

Its a speedboat not a sailboat.

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

I've still to find another car that handles worse than it.

Verna doesn't handle well but that statement is a little exaggerated.

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Its chassis is simply incapable of putting all that power down effectively.

How do u conclude that ??
I have worked and repaired a lot of Verna chassises and i must say the chassis can take a lot of abuse.

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Look at the number of crashed vernas at any hyundai service center - it dwarfs every other car.

Thats no way of concluding that a car isn't good.
Goto Ford service station you will find crashed Fiestas as well. Similarly it applies to all cars.


My Verdict :
Fiesta - City driving
Verna - Highway driving

[finneyp]

Originally Posted by kpzen

My Verdict :
Fiesta - City driving
Verna - Highway driving

And Linea - for both City and Highway driving

[kpzen]

Originally Posted by finneyp

And Linea - for both City and Highway driving

My passion is driving cars not a FIAT