[jassi]

Originally Posted by crackingride

I for one am sick and tired of being hand-held and treated like a baby by every manufacturer out there.

Hot hatch in looks only? Early indications seem to point to (yet another) one of these stories.

C'mon VW, make my day and prove me wrong for once.

if the engine is good they have a bad chasis, if the chasis is good they put in a pathetic engine - i am not really sure if there is a true sporty hatch coming along in india - now only if vw decides to give us a 1.2tsi with a true sporty package (all disc brakes et al) at the price of the jazz and put honda to shame

[crackingride]

Originally Posted by crackingride

I'm hearing engine options at launch pegged at a brace of 1.2 diesel and petrol units. The petrol being the same as the Fabia (HTP??) , and an all new 3 cylinder 1.2 oil burner. We can see where this is going, already !

"Later" there will be a 1.6 petrol. No mention of the 1.4, and given that is the one with the DSG, an auto box is ruled out too.

ADDITION AND MODIFICATION (the 20 minute rule cuts in even while you are trying to edit a post!)

Here is what cars.uk.msn.com has to say about the engines:

--" Engines [for the UK] comprise 60hp and 70hp naturally aspirated 1.2 petrols, an 85hp 1.4 petrol and a pair of new 1.6-litre turbodiesels. Plus an also new 1.2 TSI turbo petrol.
...
...

The new 1.6 diesels bless the Polo with common rail technology for the first time - boosting efficiency and refinement. Trouble is, almost as soon as you start the 75hp version you'll want more power. Hopefully the 90hp version is better. Certainly the Europe-only 105hp variant has plenty of go.

The 1.4 petrol surprises you straight away by sounding - shock - sporty. Don't worry it's not obtrusive, but driven hard this Polo doesn't complain, it basks. The note is never stressed, never breathless, and matched to a sweet, linear power delivery it goes 0-62mph in 12.1 seconds. Not quick, but certainly spirited.

You don't want that, though. You want the 1.2 TSI. A brand new engine, the small capacity makes it frugal - in fact official economy figures suggest the light-footed will use no more fuel in this than the old non-turbo 1.2s - yet the turbocharger turns it into something just short of mighty.

105hp and 129lb ft of torque means 0-62mph in 9.7 seconds, and a top speed of 118mph. This means it accelerates faster than the old Polo 1.6 (not to mention a mk4 Golf that was cynically badged GTI), and is chunky with torque throughout the mid-range. It's a joy."--

So, the 1.2 we will get will be the 70HP doing duty as the Fabia 1.2 HTP.
The 1.4 is out, along with its auto option.

The 1.6 diesel (corrected from my earlier post where i said petrol) might be ok, though the chances of it going to 90 or 105HP are seriously non-existent.

That leaves the 1.2 TSi, so lets just smoke some pot and keep hallucinating about that one, shall we?

[theEnd]

The 1.2 TSI would be nice. Its not mind blowing... after all it just offers 5% more power than the 1.6 Palio that was available here around 8 years ago. Now the 1.4 TSI would really be something. But, apart from the 1.2 TSI the other engines in the Polo range are just pathetic.

Originally Posted by crackingride

We already have an idea of what we WONT get: low profile tires; DSG (unless there is demand!); the only worthwhile engine in the pile- the 1.2 TSI; heck, one show host even says the integrated LED turn indicators in the ORVMs will not make it here! (So will the side indicator be added to the body shell, given that there is no other side indicator on the Euro spec Polo?); also, no central navigation console; no black/ grey interiors.

VW wants to sell 25,000 a year, but the fans are being lumped with the rest of our billion plus population and having our choices made for us.

Who wants a beige interior? But that's what we will get!

I for one am sick and tired of being hand-held and treated like a baby by every manufacturer out there.

I watched that same show and I was extremely disappointed when the presenter said that VW will omit the LED turn indicators and the touchscreen sat-nav for the Indian Polo. And beige??? Why do all these car manufacturers believe that all Indians love the colour beige? Who even allowed beige to be a colour?

While they're at it, why not remove the windscreen and stretch a sheet of plastic film between the A-pillars? How about some bicycle wheels? And who needs an engine either? We can just paddle around, Flintstones style!

Sorry VW, but if you give us the cheap treatment we'll just go buy Marutis instead. At least there are no false promises there.

[amtak]

Originally Posted by theEnd

I watched that same show and I was extremely disappointed when the presenter said that VW will omit the LED turn indicators and the touchscreen sat-nav for the Indian Polo. And beige??? Why do all these car manufacturers believe that all Indians love the colour beige? Who even allowed beige to be a colour?

By removing the turn indicators from the mirrors and putting them back on the fenders is a better option for a country like India. You don't want to put new mirrors every month isn't it? The way our road traffic is, the chances are once every month, someone would kiss your mirror. Considering this it makes sense to have them on the fender to avoid them from breaking. A normal mirror would set you back by minimum 1300 Rs, the one with an LED indicator would set you back by 10,000 INR. What do you want? My zen's fender also doesn't cost that much!

The way the cars with Beige interiors are being sold, justifies it!

[crackingride]

Originally Posted by amtak

By removing the turn indicators from the mirrors and putting them back on the fenders is a better option for a country like India. You don't want to put new mirrors every month isn't it?

This is where the crux of my grouse lies. Agreed someone will kiss your mirror. But that didn't prevent this feature from appearing on Civics, Audis, Captivas etc. etc. It even appears on the rest of the VW range right here in India.
So, once again someone decides that it is too much for the Indian market to bear. Will this design intervention take place in other markets as well? I doubt it.

Originally Posted by theEnd

The 1.2 TSI would be nice. Its not mind blowing... after all it just offers 5% more power than the 1.6 Palio that was available here around 8 years ago. Now the 1.4 TSI would really be something. But, apart from the 1.2 TSI the other engines in the Polo range are just pathetic.

Not mind blowing, but the 5 percent more power (of a 1.6, not 1.2!) is coming from an engine of smaller displacement. Think what that does to vehicle weight, fuel efficiency, tax concessions (given that this is a sub-4 meter motor by my reckoning). Estimated fuel efficiency for the 1.2 TSi with a light foot is supposed to be even with the older, regular 1.2, at around 18-20 kmpl. (see a previous post i made earlier in this thread).

Why would it not be nice to have a lighter, equally responsive, frugal, modern engine that gives us 1.6 power output?

As for the 1.4, its a regular non-turbo engine, and is not TSI, outputting 85 HP. Plus it will not make it here according to the various "experts" in the press and media world.

[mxx]

Originally Posted by theEnd

The 1.2 TSI would be nice. Its not mind blowing... after all it just offers 5% more power than the 1.6 Palio that was available here around 8 years ago.

5% more power than a 1.6 from a 1.2. The 1.2 is what you have missed. It will be way more frugal than a 1.6. That is what is interesting.

[theEnd]

Originally Posted by crackingride

Not mind blowing, but the 5 percent more power (of a 1.6, not 1.2!) is coming from an engine of smaller displacement. Think what that does to vehicle weight, fuel efficiency, tax concessions (given that this is a sub-4 meter motor by my reckoning). Estimated fuel efficiency for the 1.2 TSi with a light foot is supposed to be even with the older, regular 1.2, at around 18-20 kmpl. (see a previous post i made earlier in this thread).

Why would it not be nice to have a lighter, equally responsive, frugal, modern engine that gives us 1.6 power output?

It certainly would be nice to have a smaller engine with more power, but how about a bigger engine with even more power! I just find it sad that over the last 5 years engines seem to be getting smaller and less powerful, and thos of us who want to buy a hatchback find ourselves hoping for a mere 105 bhp engine in 2009, when we've had a 100 bhp engine since 2001. It seems that the only progress has been made to increase efficiency and reduce pollution. How about those of us who want more power!?

Originally Posted by crackingride

As for the 1.4, its a regular non-turbo engine, and is not TSI, outputting 85 HP. Plus it will not make it here according to the various "experts" in the press and media world.

VW does have a 1.4TSI that it puts in the Golf, Scirocco and various other cars, and should make it into the Polo GTI next year. This same engine has won 'engine of the year' more than once. I guess this is too much to ask for in our country. Heck, we probably wont even get the 1.2TSI or even a DSG gearbox on this car.

I hope that VW realizes that there's no point trying to cut corners just to undercut the Jazz, I20 or Punto. If they do so, they will spoil the reputation of the brand in India (look at what happened to Skoda after so many years of building a premium brand here). If VW tries to sell a cheap version of the Polo here with inferior engines and missing features, most of us educated buyers will realize (all it takes is a single Google search) that we've been shafted and wont ever buy a VW again.

[amit27]

I am not sure how will VW be able to sell cars where is the distribution / Service infra ? You have hardly have 1 or 2 showrooms even in places like NCR and they sell Passats / Jetta in single digit every month . Where will the people to service cars will come from some how gives me a very discomforting feeling

[crackingride]

Originally Posted by theEnd

It certainly would be nice to have a smaller engine with more power, but how about a bigger engine with even more power!

.....

VW does have a 1.4TSI that it puts in the Golf, Scirocco and various other cars, and should make it into the Polo GTI next year. This same engine has won 'engine of the year' more than once.

.....

If VW tries to sell a cheap version of the Polo here with inferior engines and missing features, most of us educated buyers will realize (all it takes is a single Google search) that we've been shafted and wont ever buy a VW again.

Valid points all.
More power means more displacement, and we know where that is going worldwide as a trend, and in india as a matter of government policy! I guess we have to be thankful that we are still managing around 100 odd horses with improved efficiency!

The 1.4 TSI you mention did just win engine of the year in the last couple days. But the 1.4 for the Polo is the 'old' normally aspirated one. We are not even getting the 1.2 TSI on launch... the 1.4 is pure wet-dream territory.

As for manufacturers selling us cheaper versions, they do, and we buy it.
Unless one begins to spend upwards of 17 lakhs, you are going to be shafted, regardless, and even at those prices you could still be getting a raw deal. Think 1.8 TSI "new" Laura.

[theEnd]

Originally Posted by crackingride

As for manufacturers selling us cheaper versions, they do, and we buy it.
Unless one begins to spend upwards of 17 lakhs, you are going to be shafted, regardless, and even at those prices you could still be getting a raw deal. Think 1.8 TSI "new" Laura.

Agreed. I guess that those of us who dont have mass-market preferences (e.g. one who would rather spend ~ 13L on a Polo GTi rather than a Civic saloon) will never be happy because its uneconomical for the carmakers to cater to a 'minority'. Until the government removes its absurd import duties, cars like the Polo GTi (or even the 1.2TSI Polo with DSG) will always remain a distant dream.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by mxx

5% more power than a 1.6 from a 1.2.

I think you guys are talking about maximum power which you get at one particular rpm. In reality, what matters more is how the power is spread through the rpm band. Remember how the iDSI engine for the city did a good job with just 77bhp? Well spread power makes an engine flexible, driveable and fun. I still think the 1.6 would win because its bigger (duh!)

[crackingride]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

I think you guys are talking about maximum power which you get at one particular rpm.

To be honest, the nitty gritty of whether we are talking about max power, displacement or whatever is not the thing. The main issue is that for those looking to go beyond mass-market, and not necessarily massively over budget, there is a dearth of offerings, and any that might make a semblance of sense are dumbed down to suit everyone's convenience.

[theEnd]

I just read in the July issue of Top Gear that VW plans to put the 1.6 petrol engine from the Jetta into the Polo. The specs on the engine are decent (102bhp @5600 and 148Nm @3800) and it should make the comparitively smaller Polo move quite quickly. This might even be a cheaper option than the 1.2 TSI with equivalent power, no turbo lag, but less fuel efficiency.

Other things mentioned in the article are the usual cheapening process for India... no sat nav, no DSG, beige interiors, no LED indicators, cheaper plastics, 5-speed manual instead of 6-speed etc etc...

[jassi]

^^ i am fine with usual cheapening process as long as the engine is 100+ bhp with sufficient torque. Also cheapening should not introduce ride/handling compromise and the features (acc, airbags, options) should atleast match up to i20/punto :-)

[crackingride]

Originally Posted by theEnd

I just read in the July issue of Top Gear that VW plans to put the 1.6 petrol engine from the Jetta into the Polo. The specs on the engine are decent (102bhp @5600 and 148Nm @3800) and it should make the comparitively smaller Polo move quite quickly. This might even be a cheaper option than the 1.2 TSI with equivalent power, no turbo lag, but less fuel efficiency.

Other things mentioned in the article are the usual cheapening process for India... no sat nav, no DSG, beige interiors, no LED indicators, cheaper plastics, 5-speed manual instead of 6-speed etc etc...

The cheapening process is a sickening process.
A 1.6 engine will not get any excise cuts, will it? Add to the higher price the lower tech engine and attendant handicap by way of efficiency etc.
As far as interiors go, more sickening news. Highline versions in India will get TRENDLINE plastics!! At Highline prices, obviously.
Whats with the no OVRM LED indicators anyway? I'm seeing Ford Fiestas with it for crissake!
Add 14 inchers, which even a Fiat beats, and what are we going to be paying VW a premium for??