[asr245]

Originally Posted by Abh1nav

but your observation that people in general don't trust German cars is absolute rubbish IMO.

What's rubbish about it?
I am one of the people and I don't trust German/Czech cars. I will never have any of their cars as my only car and even as my 2nd car I will pick one which has the least number of gizmos (so called technology) e.g. no auto for me, simply because I am afraid that it will pack up and leave me with a huge bill.

Of all the things I want to burn my money on, fighting with A.S.S./legal battles, breaking down in the middle of nowhere and then paying for it does not figure anywhere on my list. No matter how big the FTD factor is or how properly "built" (whatever that means) they feel.

I bet the number of horror stories we keep reading on this forum about a German car going bad, this list is only growing bigger. What the heck, we have thread dedicated to their cars.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...rman-cars.html

[mayankk]

Not faring well in the used car market too.
Not with regard to price but as far maintainence perceptions go.

My FNG has a VRS parked in more or less OK condition. I asked him if I should buy it, and if I do, will he be able to maintain it?
Straight answer was "no!"
"let someone else buy it, he will go to someone else. You buy it, you will bring it to me only for repairs. And I cant handle skoda. Either parts are not available, and if they are, theyre either through jugaad at skoda, or exorbitant out of the A.S.S. "
Here I was, thinking I would have had to clamber over people dying to get hold of that particular car.

[2000rpm]

I agree that European cars are more refined than Indian Home grown ones, but what about reliability!!! Add to that the fact that the Europeans are not at all serious for providing good service to people in rural India.

I understand that its their deliberate strategy to focus on Urban population as they have the purchasing power and appreciation for European products / engineering but what happens when such a customer travels to rural belts or his car is broken down in rural areas??

I was a victim of such a product (Palio). I have mentioned my Palio Story in other threads but just to summarize. My Palio broke down in Ratnagiri (Ganpatipule to Goa Highway connecting road) somehow managed to drive the car to Fiat service station (without clutch) and was told that "Sorry Sir, we don't have the spares as we don't support Palio, only Punto and Linea"

Now tell me why should such policies not be punished in India when it is necessary for car manufacturers to support discontinued products for 15 years and why should we keep rewarding such manufacturers by purchasing their cars at a premium. (I seriously hope that no one faces such a situation in their lives with family stranded on road and manufacturer holding their hands up with no spares availability for atleast 100 Kms)

I am glad to see the poor results of manufacturers like Skoda and Fiat in the monthly sales report because such manufacturers don't have a plan for India and more customers are likely to face situations like the one I faced. Take Renault-Nissan for example, a manufacturer who is serious about India and is opening showrooms, launching new products. Glad to see them doing well unlike Fiat who has launched two products since 2008. This was slightly off topic but I wanted to convey that we, as aware consumers, must act responsibly so that the auto industry can show respect towards its customers especially in a country like India where the government is practically silent on all such issues and other issues like safety.

[Abh1nav]

Originally Posted by asr245

What's rubbish about it?

Every manufacturer has horror stories attached to it's brand.

My personal experience in dealing with Maruti Suzuki was nothing short of a nightmare. The dealer, T.R Sahwney motors sold me a Zen Estillo which had an accidental door, which I came to know about when I went to install aftermarket ICE in the car, a week after purchasing it.

When I went to the dealer, he put the blame on Maruti and said that it MAY have been damaged during transit. It took me 4-5 months to reach to an agreement.

So, every manufacturer will have such cases.

About the Skoda / VW horror stories, I don't think they are on a rise, specially when compared to say 5-7 years back. As far as their current status goes, it's as good or bad as any other company.

P.S. Sorry for going OT.

[joslicx]

why are people hijacking harish's thread by this frankly useless German bashing. There are countless other threads on this forum (and others) indulging in same (and some of them got closed because of that). Do you guys want this thread to be closed as well? How does all this discussion add any value to this thread?

[Speed Pujari]

Can we stick to the topic and not make it European versus other countries car thread .

There are many other threads available for these bashings.
Thanks.

[saket77]

Originally Posted by Abh1nav

but your observation that people in general don't trust German cars is absolute rubbish IMO.

I don't think it to be a 'rubbish'! I am a person & in general, when it comes to reliability, I will always trust a Jap car over others, leave alone an European. Of course, your opinion & my opinion are personal, but the majority thinks likewise. I would anyday buy a City/ Civic over the Vento/ Octavia, although the later have astounding build quality, bells & whistles.
As per my thinking, I would rather like to complete my journey without any trouble and with peace of mind rather than sitting inside a tank on a lone highway which broke down. I may be exaggerating a bit, but as I said, we are all entitled to our opinion. Yours may be entirely different & I respect it.

Originally Posted by Abh1nav

While German cars may not be as hot selling as our home-grown ones, but they are far ahead in terms of refinement, and there's no denying that. IMO, majority of people in India still PLAY SAFE while buying a vehicle, which means that they preferably stick to Marutis and Hyundais citing vast service network and all that.


The Germans have a long way to go as far as their after sales are concerned, but Skoda is taking a few steps in that direction, and it's online service calculator is one such example.

Team-BHP community comprises of a very minute percentage of people driving cars in India, but even they, after reading such reports (Like Harish's) have gone ahead to buy a Skoda / VW and are immensely happy with their purchase. Talking of people in general, I guess they have no doubts about the reliability of German cars, but yes, they do think that German cars are expensive to maintain, and hence may shy away from buying one.

Yes, that is another factor. The German cars are a LOT more expensive to maintain. Take into account, first service of a fabia (which includes free labour) costs about 10-12K INR!

I read on this forum itself that a regular service for a Skoda car costed about 45K INR to the owner

That alone is a big dampener for most Indian buyers. On top of that, poor customer service & after sales messes up the matter entirely. Moreover, availability of spare parts with the ASC is always uncertain. All these can rob off the peace of mind from the car owners with a general mind-set; hence they shy away from buying a German car. And you yourself write in your post that most Indians 'PLAY SAFE' because in fact, they are a safer bet.

Edit: Just saw a few earlier posts & agree that we should not make it again a Euro vs Jap debate. This is my last post in this debate.

[selfdrive]

Guys, its been a long time that harish is waging his battle. Most of us would like to help, but at some level are equally helpless (or useless for harish, depending on how one looks at it!)
We usually look at updates on this thread. We wait for it to pop up on our user panel after subscribing to it. Using that perspective, can we please leave the space blank for harish to provide updates? That would help us stay updated on the topic and provide any help if harish wishes so, or asks for.

Everyone has their own perspective, which we can continue discussing elsewhere on this forum

[zenren]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Guys, its been a long time that harish is waging his battle. Most of us would like to help, but at some level are equally helpless (or useless for harish, depending on how one looks at it!)
We usually look at updates on this thread. We wait for it to pop up on our user panel after subscribing to it. Using that perspective, can we please leave the space blank for harish to provide updates? That would help us stay updated on the topic and provide any help if harish wishes so, or asks for.

Everyone has their own perspective, which we can continue discussing elsewhere on this forum

Here is a different perspective of looking at it:

If we leave this thread for updates from Harish alone, it would die a slow death which would indirectly help the culprits in this case since newer members wouldn't know about this.

Every time somebody posts in this thread, Harish's incident gets refreshed in our memory to those who were following it from some point and catches the attention of new readers. Not everyone knew about it in the first few days/months/year. It was such posts (even if technically off topic) that helped this thread come to the top of the pile and catch the attention of the newer members who had not seen this thread.

I'm pretty sure that if Harish posts an update on this thread, it would be discussed for some time and we wouldn't miss it. Its sufficient that a few members notice it and reply in order to get the attention of others.

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT: P.S: We have the Mods to clean up totally off-topic messages

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by zenren

Here is a different perspective of looking at it:

If we leave this thread for updates from Harish alone, it would die a slow death which would indirectly help the culprits in this case since newer members wouldn't know about this.

Interesting perspective I agree. But then let us talk about the topic on hand and other ways that may help harish overcome his challenges. Turning it into a debate between Japs and Germans wont help the purpose of this thread

Originally Posted by zenren

EDIT: P.S: We have the Mods to clean up totally off-topic messages

Of course the mods are around and do their job, but if we moderate ourselves it will reduce the burden on the mods to keep looking at everything. As fellow bhpians let us reduce the mod workload too!

I will do so from my side, and this will be my last post arguing the merits or otherwise of a Jap/ European debate on this thread!

[wilful]

Harish - this new thread might just provide you with some ammunition and hope in your long battle. I wonder if this could be a referral point for your legal folk.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ctive-car.html

[harishv]

@wilful.

Thanx for the input. Will try and put it to some use.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by harishv

...

Not sure you have said it before, but did any other unfortunate Skoda owners from your place contact you?

In such cases, filing cases against Skoda in the same court (ofcourse as a different case) would help strengthen the cases further?

Also if many cases are filed at different places, will it add to the strength of your case?

[Lalvaz]

Hi Harishv,

Any updates on your case? Are you still fighting them or have you reached the end of your tether? All the best !!!

[harishv]

At the onset there were more than 100 odd people in my list fighting against Skoda. All those who had minor issues drifted away gradually. Don't blame them. Makes no sense to put valuable time and good money after bad money. Some of them sold their cars. Some cut losses.

A sizeable number with serious issues still remained. We contemplated filing a class action suit against Skoda. However, the heart rending status of the victims of the infamous Bhopal gas tragedy class action law suit compounded with the experience of my own consumer forum case, deterred me from any further legal misadventures.

Even today I get calls from at least 1 person every week. I have no clue on what to advise them. I have nothing to show for the last 5 years except shutting down the crooked dealership.

The only thing that will bring this arrogant company to its knees is the drop in monthly numbers from 1775 to below 775 and beyond. Publicity about their misdeeds is the only solution.

Spend some money. Get some trailers, donkey carts, drivers, some banners - put these banners up on defunct cars and parade them around respective cities and at mega events.

Only publicity will hurt. Junior lawyers fees for taking dates and manipulating are affordable.