Has India finally stopped being sedan-crazy??

raul · 26th March 2009, 16:25

The perception has been a sedan is better quality, bigger and more prestigious to own, this is a function of price and perceived value just like a merc is more prestigious to own, its nothing to do with India per se.

Obviously hot hatches apart from environmental and social concerns in developed countries have played a big role in changing the perception of hatches abroad and now as they come here the same thing will happen here, but first the hot hatches have to come before the perception changes.

The hatch has alway been promoted as a affordable city car for traffic, cramped spaces, easy parking, limited in many ways and that naturally adds to its perception, now with well equipped and powerful hatches become available , increased congestion and other factors it slowly becomes more a matter of choice than budget.

Mpower · 26th March 2009, 17:28

To answer the question, yes India has stopped being sedan crazy !! not 100% but still the thinking is changing...

Lots of people are choosing fully loaded Swifts and Getzs and Fabias and i10-ATs over the ancient sedans like Accent, Logan and Ford Ikon that are available in the same price range.

A chic looking Fabia will anyday get more respect and admiration than a Esteem.

Gagan.js · 26th March 2009, 17:29

We have cars like xylo coming in at sedan price.

So does the middle class family buy the big car instead of a sedan or a small car(hatch) instead of a sedan. Lets ponder.

greenhorn · 26th March 2009, 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by extreme_torque

Well I would prefer your first hand experience than 'someone was saying'.. I have had first hand experience with 2 Vista's both of them are doing absolutely fine at 10k's kms. Only the suspension bushes were changed under warranty because Tata's came up with a redesign to eliminate squeaking noises from the suspension.

his name (on orkut) is sam. guy hails from pathanamthitta in kerala and owns a dark blue vista. He loves the car, but he really did have to change a lot of parts. I can post the link to his orkut thread if you want.

He had applied to team bhp, but is one of those several unfortunate members whose application is forever in limbo. he now asks for his experiences to be posted on tbhp.

Of course , we are very off topic here. Sorry to the mods, please move this discussion to one of the vista threads if required

aerohit · 26th March 2009, 17:53

Considering Maruti converted a Swift hatch into a ________ , people probabaly still like sedan.

SS-Traveller · 26th March 2009, 18:12

Aaaah... who needs the hatches and the sedans? Just give me an SUV with a "dicky"...

marlinspike · 26th March 2009, 18:26

SRV is an optra with the boot lopped off. Aveo outsells it. Infact everythnig else outsells it as it doesn't sell at all. Ford fusion is a failure just because it doesn't have the boot in the proper manner even though it offers more storage space than a ikon or fiesta and offered the same engine options with a lot more practicality. Octavia is a hit, combi is a clear miss.

fabia was high on my list, infact it started my interest in a car, but I still ended up buying a sedan not because I wanted that Dicky but because I didn't think another foot more behind the tailgate is not that much of an issue and it would help when I wanted to move more than just people. I haven't really filled up the boot for a trip, but having that
additional space makes for peace of mind. When some one can just about afford and need a second car yes they might either opt for a hot hatch or a MUV/SUV.

A hatch would suffice for 90% of the time most travel requirements. It would just be frustrating to hire a vehicle for the other 5 -7 % when you know if it was a sedan that would have been taken care too. for the other 3-5% you need to hire that MUV anyway.

People buy sedans because it makes sense, not because they are obsessed with a Dicky and some vague prestige value. We don't live in the amby/premier era when car was a luxury. Most people wouldn;t give a car a second look and it may not matter if you arrived in a hatch or a sedan as mostly your priced possesion don't end up in the drive way but in the most of the time in the basement parking or a side lane.
upwards of civic may get a second look but till that price point they are all just modes of transportation for the people who matter to you.

drkunaldas · 26th March 2009, 19:11

Is a sedan more safe than a hatchback due to the presence of that dicky? eg. will DEZIRE ZXi be more safe than SWIFT ZXi? both have abs / airbags and they share the same platforms. or in other words, presence of a dicky help in increasing safety of passengers. there are so many international models where the 3-box car shares plateform with a hatchback model. with similar kit levels, is there any differences between their safety ratings (NCAP)?

equinox22 · 26th March 2009, 19:18

@Mayavi: I am also an ordinary Joe with a sedan. But thats a different story. However the GTI is a better car than the Jetta. And I am saying drivability wise and not VFM. I have stated in the earlier post that it makes perfect sense for a person to buy a sedan if his/her need justifies it. But a person spending more on an expensive hatchback is doing it for the drive and not for VFM.
For the Accent example, the hatchback version is not better in any way than the sedan. So there is no reason an enthusiast would go for it versus the sedan. Which is why I gave the example of the GTI where it actually offers more to the enthusiast than the Jetta does.
If sedans were the only sellers then why would companies even bother to come up with hot hatches/coupes? And since you brought up the US example, why do companies sell the coupe versions of the Civic and Accord in the US and not in India? The larger percentage will always choose utility over value. But that 1 percent that you speak of is slowly coming into play in India too. And that is what maturing of the market means to me.

joslicx · 26th March 2009, 19:21

Its really an interesting thread.

I think to really guage the mood of a prospective Indian buyer this question should be put a bit differently. My take is suppose (just suppose without any loss of generality) that Honda had a Civic hatch model - basically same interiors, just the protruding dikki cut off and probably with City's 1.5 118bhp ivtec engine (should be enough for this smaller car and helps bring down costs). So you have a real hot hatch, loaded one (has ACC, ABS, Airbags, great interiors, plenty of space inside etc etc). Now the question is if Honda were to sell it alongside ANHC (both for Rs. 9 lakhs). What would people here buy? Civic hatch or ANHC (remember both can be yours for same 9 lakh rupees!)

With Civic hatch you get a loaded feature-rich car without a protruding dikki. With ANHC you get a basic car with a dikki. Now tell whats your choice?

I know mine. Without a second thought it is the Civic hatch!

diabloo · 26th March 2009, 19:47

A Civic hatch would cost more than Civic sedan.
If you want to compare ANHC hatch with Civic sedan, then from price point of view, it would be interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joslicx

My take is suppose (just suppose without any loss of generality) that Honda had a Civic hatch model

Well summarized - this settles the argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marlinspike

People buy sedans because it makes sense, not because they are obsessed with a Dicky and some vague prestige value.

1100D · 26th March 2009, 20:00

Mercedes, BMW all have Estate versions of their famously popular sedan's. How many do they manage to sell compared to the Sedan counterparts. I remember an article that said the famous W211 Mercedes E55AMG Estate was faster to launch than the Sedan, yet not many buyers chose it over the sedan E55AMG.

So the Sedan fixation is mostly universal. Sedans look proportionate.

AyAn! · 26th March 2009, 20:19

Even BMW has an estate version of its M5.Which is as hot...yes India does like cars with a boot.People still assocaite a boot with status and prestige.But its changing slowly with cars like the Fabia..it also explains why horribly outdated cars like the Accent & Ikon are still sold in the market..For Christ's sake.the generation of Fiesta on which the Ikon was based has stopped selling in Europe since maybe World War 2

2 more generations have rolled on...

AyAn! · 26th March 2009, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by condor

So Swift is a premium hatch ?
& the i20 too ?

* If your definition of over-priced is called 'premium', well ...

* What 'more' do these 'premium hatch'es offer over the sedan ?

* What is 'small' about these sedans, compare to those premium hatches ?

The i20 is just a 'current' spec hatch at a high price - priced in a way that it does not affect the sales of it's accepted siblings.

No matter how much features these 'premium' hatches offer, there will always be takers for the practicality of a sedan. Cars like the Ikon, Accent, Indigo, DZire' will continue to sell as well as they have been doing.

The Swift costs 5 big ones..at that price you can have an Accent as well as an Indigo/CS.Compare this with the Alto/Estilo/A-Star..the Swift has a 1.3 litre mill,looks & street cred..That, my friend according to current Indian motoring standards makes it a premium hatch.Same goes for the i20 and Fabia. Drawing analogies, even the Splendour is treated as an 'executive' commuter here.

Well any given day the top of the line i20 is more practical than a Accent.The Ikon well...it should R.I.P.

joslicx · 26th March 2009, 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by diabloo

A Civic hatch would cost more than Civic sedan.
If you want to compare ANHC hatch with Civic sedan, then from price point of view, it would be interesting.

I am sorry I dont get it why you think Civic hatch with City's 1.5 liter engine should cost more than Civic sedan????

It is not so with any other car in India. Swift is cheaper than Dzire (both using same engine). SRV is cheaper than Optra (I guess by at least 1+ lac). Jazz is reportedly coming in 6-7 lakhs range so it will be cheaper than NHC as well. Aveo UVA is much cheaper than Aveo sedan as well. GP is going to be cheaper than Linea (if we suppose GP is equivalent to Linea hatch). Even Fabia (equivalent to an Octy hatch with smaller engine) is much cheaper than Octy. Its like that with hatches. They have smaller engines and are much cheaper than their equivalent sedans.

What hatch is out there that is more expansive than its sedan version?

And my original question stands. Just suppose if there was a Civic hatch and ANHC available for the same price then what would you buy?

26th March 2009, 16:25	#46
raul BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pune Posts: 920 Thanked: 372 Times	The perception has been a sedan is better quality, bigger and more prestigious to own, this is a function of price and perceived value just like a merc is more prestigious to own, its nothing to do with India per se. Obviously hot hatches apart from environmental and social concerns in developed countries have played a big role in changing the perception of hatches abroad and now as they come here the same thing will happen here, but first the hot hatches have to come before the perception changes. The hatch has alway been promoted as a affordable city car for traffic, cramped spaces, easy parking, limited in many ways and that naturally adds to its perception, now with well equipped and powerful hatches become available , increased congestion and other factors it slowly becomes more a matter of choice than budget.
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 17:28	#47
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,729 Times View My Garage	To answer the question, yes India has stopped being sedan crazy !! not 100% but still the thinking is changing... Lots of people are choosing fully loaded Swifts and Getzs and Fabias and i10-ATs over the ancient sedans like Accent, Logan and Ford Ikon that are available in the same price range. A chic looking Fabia will anyday get more respect and admiration than a Esteem.
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 17:29	#48
Gagan.js BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 227 Thanked: Once	We have cars like xylo coming in at sedan price. So does the middle class family buy the big car instead of a sedan or a small car(hatch) instead of a sedan. Lets ponder.
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 17:53	#50
aerohit BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: India Posts: 978 Thanked: 980 Times	DZire Considering Maruti converted a Swift hatch into a ________ , people probabaly still like sedan.
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 18:12	#51
SS-Traveller Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: New Delhi Posts: 8,162 Thanked: 27,120 Times View My Garage	Aaaah... who needs the hatches and the sedans? Just give me an SUV with a "dicky"... Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 18:26	#52
marlinspike BHPian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 193 Thanked: 3 Times	SRV is an optra with the boot lopped off. Aveo outsells it. Infact everythnig else outsells it as it doesn't sell at all. Ford fusion is a failure just because it doesn't have the boot in the proper manner even though it offers more storage space than a ikon or fiesta and offered the same engine options with a lot more practicality. Octavia is a hit, combi is a clear miss. fabia was high on my list, infact it started my interest in a car, but I still ended up buying a sedan not because I wanted that Dicky but because I didn't think another foot more behind the tailgate is not that much of an issue and it would help when I wanted to move more than just people. I haven't really filled up the boot for a trip, but having that additional space makes for peace of mind. When some one can just about afford and need a second car yes they might either opt for a hot hatch or a MUV/SUV. A hatch would suffice for 90% of the time most travel requirements. It would just be frustrating to hire a vehicle for the other 5 -7 % when you know if it was a sedan that would have been taken care too. for the other 3-5% you need to hire that MUV anyway. People buy sedans because it makes sense, not because they are obsessed with a Dicky and some vague prestige value. We don't live in the amby/premier era when car was a luxury. Most people wouldn;t give a car a second look and it may not matter if you arrived in a hatch or a sedan as mostly your priced possesion don't end up in the drive way but in the most of the time in the basement parking or a side lane. upwards of civic may get a second look but till that price point they are all just modes of transportation for the people who matter to you.
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 19:11	#53
drkunaldas BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Noida Posts: 141 Thanked: 5 Times	Is a sedan more safe than a hatchback due to the presence of that dicky? eg. will DEZIRE ZXi be more safe than SWIFT ZXi? both have abs / airbags and they share the same platforms. or in other words, presence of a dicky help in increasing safety of passengers. there are so many international models where the 3-box car shares plateform with a hatchback model. with similar kit levels, is there any differences between their safety ratings (NCAP)?
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 19:18	#54
equinox22 BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Chicago/Pune Posts: 165 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	@Mayavi: I am also an ordinary Joe with a sedan. But thats a different story. However the GTI is a better car than the Jetta. And I am saying drivability wise and not VFM. I have stated in the earlier post that it makes perfect sense for a person to buy a sedan if his/her need justifies it. But a person spending more on an expensive hatchback is doing it for the drive and not for VFM. For the Accent example, the hatchback version is not better in any way than the sedan. So there is no reason an enthusiast would go for it versus the sedan. Which is why I gave the example of the GTI where it actually offers more to the enthusiast than the Jetta does. If sedans were the only sellers then why would companies even bother to come up with hot hatches/coupes? And since you brought up the US example, why do companies sell the coupe versions of the Civic and Accord in the US and not in India? The larger percentage will always choose utility over value. But that 1 percent that you speak of is slowly coming into play in India too. And that is what maturing of the market means to me.
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 19:21	#55
joslicx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,286 Thanked: 1,011 Times	Its really an interesting thread. I think to really guage the mood of a prospective Indian buyer this question should be put a bit differently. My take is suppose (just suppose without any loss of generality) that Honda had a Civic hatch model - basically same interiors, just the protruding dikki cut off and probably with City's 1.5 118bhp ivtec engine (should be enough for this smaller car and helps bring down costs). So you have a real hot hatch, loaded one (has ACC, ABS, Airbags, great interiors, plenty of space inside etc etc). Now the question is if Honda were to sell it alongside ANHC (both for Rs. 9 lakhs). What would people here buy? Civic hatch or ANHC (remember both can be yours for same 9 lakh rupees!) With Civic hatch you get a loaded feature-rich car without a protruding dikki. With ANHC you get a basic car with a dikki. Now tell whats your choice? I know mine. Without a second thought it is the Civic hatch!
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 20:00	#57
1100D Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calcutta Posts: 4,390 Thanked: 4,079 Times View My Garage	Mercedes, BMW all have Estate versions of their famously popular sedan's. How many do they manage to sell compared to the Sedan counterparts. I remember an article that said the famous W211 Mercedes E55AMG Estate was faster to launch than the Sedan, yet not many buyers chose it over the sedan E55AMG. So the Sedan fixation is mostly universal. Sedans look proportionate. Last edited by 1100D : 26th March 2009 at 20:02.
	() Thanks

26th March 2009, 20:19	#58
AyAn! Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Durgapur/Calcutta/Pune Posts: 2,169 Thanked: 869 Times	Even BMW has an estate version of its M5.Which is as hot...yes India does like cars with a boot.People still assocaite a boot with status and prestige.But its changing slowly with cars like the Fabia..it also explains why horribly outdated cars like the Accent & Ikon are still sold in the market..For Christ's sake.the generation of Fiesta on which the Ikon was based has stopped selling in Europe since maybe World War 22 more generations have rolled on...
	() Thanks

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