[navin]

Originally Posted by Perakath

This thread has degenerated into much chest-thumping and ado about nothing.

WHile there might be a few posts that make noises like "Skoda go Home" the majority of the posts either are there to show support to Harish and GTO since these two guys have put their money where their mouth is. They have fought tooth and nail for justice and the TRUTH.

There are also many a post offering Skoda all sorts of advice on what they need to do to re-engange the Indian customer and this time in a positive proactive mannner.

I for one (and I am sure many at TBHP) would prefer Skoda change it's spots than leave India. I know this will be a difficult task. However I also believe that if the management at Skoda is really bent upon being in India for the long therm and serving the Indian cutomer well they can put into place processes that address all the issues raised on this thread.

Despite all the issues faced atleast 2 Mods (Ajmat and myself) are even today getting our cars serviced by Skoda dealers (Vinayak and Autobahn). I dont know if it is the effect of this and Harish's thread but over the past week or so I am begining to see a change in the attitude from atleast a few members of the Skoda 'family'. I know that Skoda still has a long way to go to develop a reputation similar to Hyundai's.

Skoda makes good fun cars. Their reliability is more than a bit suspect but from what I hear (Skoda Superb for example is used by Taxis in some countries) they are making improvements in reliabiltiy (still no where near the standards set by Honda and Toyota) too. So in the end if ANY manufacturer can sell us a fun yet reliable car that is backed up by a friendly sales staff and is fast and cheap to service we will only be glad.

In Toyota I see hope that their cars will be more fun to drive in the future.
In Honda I see hope that the cost of their spares will come down
In Tata I see hope that they will eventually get the bugs, rattles and buzzes out of their cars
In Hyundai I see hope that their engines and drive trains will be more exciting
...

Perakath, read the posts of the more senior members including myself. I dont think any of us has tken part in a chest thumping excercise. Yes we were and still are upset that Skoda wanted to stiffle our freedom of expression. However we also want to enguge Skoda and all other car manufactuers in a postive, constructive, proactive, dialogue. We gain nothing from chest thumping other than sore chests!

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

cant you see that after a big time bashing the SKODA received they atleast responded the second time that they will start a online system for addressing the issues.

Well statements like that seem to standard statements issued by PR departments to placate an unruly crowd.

I do not consider my feelow BHPIans as a unruly crowd. All of us are passionate, knowledagable, intelligent car buyers and many of us have our opinions sought by family and friends when a car is to be bought by any of them.

I expect more from Skoda than just empty statements. A LOT MORE.

Originally Posted by Harbir

I've thought about this honestly, and I must confess that I have to disagree. Even if this was an over reaction, its fine..

Exactly, in cases like this overreaction is better than no reaction at all.

[Perakath]

Originally Posted by navin

There are also many a post offering Skoda all sorts of advice on what they need to do to re-engange the Indian customer and this time in a positive proactive mannner.

I for one (and I am sure many at TBHP) would prefer Skoda change it's spots than leave India. I know this will be a difficult task. However I also believe that if the management at Skoda is really bent upon being in India for the long therm and serving the Indian cutomer well they can put into place processes that address all the issues raised on this thread.

...

Perakath, read the posts of the more senior members including myself. I dont think any of us has tken part in a chest thumping excercise. Yes we were and still are upset that Skoda wanted to stiffle our freedom of expression. However we also want to enguge Skoda and all other car manufactuers in a postive, constructive, proactive, dialogue. We gain nothing from chest thumping other than sore chests!

Navin, with great respect to you, Harish, GTO, and all T-BHP members, please note that I have arrived at my opinion (quoted by you above) after having read every post on this thread. It may or may not be the "correct" viewpoint or the official viewpoint of the forum community, but it is/was still my opinion as a new but proud member of T-BHP.

How can you then expect a corporate executive, most likely unused to internet forums and without the time or inclination to read this thread through, to arrive at conclusions anywhere near the well-reasoned, helpful ones you have stated? Is he not far more likely to:

(a) Not read through all 661 posts so far?
(b) Read from an antagonistic viewpoint?
(c) Ignore the contents of this thread as irrelevant third-party mumblings?
(d) Arrive at my painful conclusions above?

There isn't exactly much meaningful T-BHP - Skoda debate going on here, either. I would certainly feel differently if there were. Overall it seems to be T-BHPians talking among themselves, and nothing more. If there is in actuality dialogue happening elsewhere, I'll be happy to stand corrected.

I hope you and everyone else will make an effort to understand my position and the points I'm submitting here. I'm not deliberately trying to be contrary, nor am I attempting to sow discord in the T-BHP family, and most of all I don't mean to insult anyone or their posts on this thread. I agree with the spirit of this thread, just not completely with its methods. And I'm only trying to help.

[Joe-Ker]

I feel that a reasonable show of strength is warranted in this case,as it involves lot of serious issues.The main thing to note is that the customer in general and harish in particular is the underdog here.They need all the help they can get in a battle against a big company.
Personally i am posting this to express my solidarity with those cheated customers and to salute their guts to fight back against the odds.

A company admitting its mistakes and setting it right is not a new thing.
I recall that when a friend of mine purchased an sx4 right after it was launched,Maruti called him up after a few weeks asking him to take it to the nearest MASS so that his rear suspension which came from a faulty lot could be replaced.they apologized and gave him some free acessories.The suspension was working fine till then,They need not have replaced the part,when the warranty gets over they could have replaced it at the customer's expense.But thats how companies that care for its customers operate,the gudwill that it creates is intangible,but a very valuable asset nevertheless.

And btw my friend was goin to get a fabia but now,after i sent the link,he's having second thoughts.He doesnt want to spend similar money on a hyundai due to the lack of snob value.Is there any viable alternative to these in the market?He needs the car to be ready by mid april when his dad comes back to India.Any suggestions?
I know its but thought ill kill two birdies with 1 post :-)

[Harbir]

Originally Posted by Perakath

There isn't exactly much meaningful T-BHP - Skoda debate going on here, either.

Overall it seems to be T-BHPians talking among themselves, and nothing more.

Its not just TBHPians talking amongst themselves. Its TBHPians influencing lots of Skoda buyers against Skoda. If Skoda doesn't care and/or isn't going to engage us, thats ok.

And even if its just TBHPians only talking amongst themselves, so what?

You are wasting your energy here to just to tell people that they are wasting their energy?

[Perakath]

Originally Posted by Harbir

Its not just TBHPians talking amongst themselves. Its TBHPians influencing lots of Skoda buyers against Skoda. If Skoda doesn't care and/or isn't going to engage us, thats ok.

Hmm, point there.

It's just that I have moral misgivings against this blanket, large-scale anti-Skoda movement. Not because it's Skoda in particular: it's the principle of the thing. What if this becomes a trend?

Originally Posted by Harbir

And even if its just TBHPians only talking amongst themselves, so what?

You are wasting your energy here to just to tell people that they are wasting their energy?

Yes, it's a peculiar trait of mine

[iraghava]

Originally Posted by Perakath

It's just that I have moral misgivings against this blanket, large-scale anti-Skoda movement. Not because it's Skoda in particular: it's the principle of the thing. What if this becomes a trend

Well if more manufacturers tomorrow develop the attitude of threatening and trying to throttle free speech on the internet by legalese, what then? Once they get to realise they can get away with it, they'll do it again.

And by asking them to do justice to a genuine problem (admitted by their OWN engineer's report) what wrong are we committing? Are we asking them to give us all free cars or massive discounts? No, we're just asking for justice to be done. And what to do we get in return? Threats.

I don't think they know what they're doing or getting in to but they surely will regret this.

[Harbir]

Originally Posted by Perakath

It's just that I have moral misgivings against this blanket, large-scale anti-Skoda movement. Not because it's Skoda in particular: it's the principle of the thing. What if this becomes a trend?

Why is that a problem? People are always going to buy cars. They will buy them from someone. If this becomes a trend, whoever wants to sell cars will have to be responsive to consumer collectives like this. Why is that a bad thing?

800 people here voted. I think its safe to say that they represent at least Rs 80 million worth of car sales, perhaps as much as Rs 250million. Doesn't this group have the right to get together and say what standards they expect for having spent that kind of money?

This is not a which hunt. Its about a customer with a complaint, a trend of complaints, a threat from the manufacturer, and evidence of conflicts of interest between manufacturer and dealers. Thats bloody well enough for consumer to get together to say where they stand and what they expect.

[blacmagic]

to begin with, the poll question is all wrong.
how? let me elaborate. SUPPOSE something ludicrous happened and a majority of people voted NO, would the moderators remove posts like those which Harish posted?
the question is redundant. it should have been more like: "should we let Skoda threaten to 'instigate' us"?

another dominant note in the whole thread is "remove the Skoda from the banner". if a mad dog bit you, would you go about kicking every dog you saw? the car is a gem. the picture looks cool and the owner loves it. period. the very existence of that banner in the same place as this thread is proof of the fact that tBHP is not biased. so please, lets leave the Red vRS alone.

Skoda is obviously not reading this thread or it would have responded again with either an apology, a lame excuse or further threats of 'instigation'. I think its time we calmed down and hit them where it hurts by actively linking to this page to get its PageRank up.

cries like "Skoda get out" and "Red vRS down down" dont achieve anything.

[Rudra Sen]

Originally Posted by blacmagic

to begin with, the poll question is all wrong.
how? let me elaborate. SUPPOSE something ludicrous happened and a majority of people voted NO, would the moderators remove posts like those which Harish posted?
the question is redundant. it should have been more like: "should we let Skoda threaten to 'instigate' us"?

Disagree totally. The question is 'Should Team-BHP stand up for its right to the freedom of speech? For the TRUTH?' Team-BHP stands for that question and that is one of the main reasons for our existence.

[binoyjude]

Oh God!!!....Untill now i thought Skoda had some excellent car and they offer best service.Is this how Skoda people serve their customers??
Thank You BHP for bringing to my notice...You saved me and my friend..who where considering buying a Skoda.
I feel Govt. Should take action against such dealers/Companys.Public should be aware and it should be published in newspaper!!!

[Vid6639]

I can't believe that people here are trying to justify skoda's act. What we are asking for is some basic level of after sales which every single manufacturer is expected to provide.

Let me give an example. One of the members on a Skoda forum from UK took delivery of a Superb with the DSG box and hill hold control. The dealer assured him that all DSG box's came with Hill Hold Control. He used the car for a week till he realised that the car did not have HHC and almost rolled back into another car at a traffic light.

He took it up with a dealer who apologised and first said it was his mistake but the owner should have checked at time of delivery, not after a week and he will refund the money for the HHC option. The owner threatened the dealer with legal action and wrote a letter to SKoda as well as the dealer. The dealer put up a bit of resistance but finally had no choice but to replace the car FREE OF COST.

The dealer took back the old car and replaced it with the exact same car only this time with HHC.

Mind you there was no problem whatsoever in the car just that it did not have one feature he wanted.

Compare that to the situation in Harish's case and all the rest of the members.

[xPK]

Originally Posted by aka_iitd

Check this link
Skoda plans new small car

How about naming it Skoda "Fobia"!

[tadukuttan]

Originally Posted by Perakath

How can you then expect a corporate executive, most likely unused to internet forums and without the time or inclination to read this thread through, to arrive at conclusions anywhere near the well-reasoned, helpful ones you have stated?

You are right, Skoda_Corporate cannot read, and write English. No real point in expecting them to do that. Unfortunately, we dont speak Czech or Slovak, what do we all do? Take Czech and Slovak lessons before buying Skoda cars?

Originally Posted by Perakath

Is he not far more likely to:

(a) Not read through all 661 posts so far?
(b) Read from an antagonistic viewpoint?
(c) Ignore the contents of this thread as irrelevant third-party mumblings?
(d) Arrive at my painful conclusions above?

You are right again. Reflects Skoda's attitude in general. Never ever listen to customer problems. Of course, they also consider paying customers as "irrelevant". And in addition to what you said, they also steal spare parts from customer cars, and when they complain, come down with their legal might on the poor souls who complain. They also try not to release customer cars, and hold on to them illegally. All unfortunate, as you said.

Originally Posted by Perakath

There isn't exactly much meaningful T-BHP - Skoda debate going on here, either. I would certainly feel differently if there were. Overall it seems to be T-BHPians talking among themselves, and nothing more. If there is in actuality dialogue happening elsewhere, I'll be happy to stand corrected.

You are right again. Skoda has never tried to indulge in meaningful conversation with Customers. Bad Skoda.

Originally Posted by Perakath

I hope you and everyone else will make an effort to understand my position and the points I'm submitting here. I'm not deliberately trying to be contrary, nor am I attempting to sow discord in the T-BHP family, and most of all I don't mean to insult anyone or their posts on this thread. I agree with the spirit of this thread, just not completely with its methods. And I'm only trying to help.

Why are you thinking this way? You are saying the exact same things we were all saying, just in a different way.

[53BHP]

Just got to know from a friend of another instance of cheating by Skoda. Luckily for the customer (his friend) this time he had some strong allies. He purchased an Octavia 3 years ago from Nummer Eins. He is a 1st cousin of a prominent politician who inaugurated the Nummer Eins showroom (unknown to Nummer Eins when he sent his car in for repairs). The repairs were minor. The bill was 84000. This guy gets bugged. The dealer tells him to sod off. He calls up his cousin's secretary. The secretary calls up the dealer. The dealer says "Oh no problem, I didnt know he was cousin, no charge, tell him to pick up the car". Friend says "I dont want anything fookat. Charge me the actual amount" Final bill: 18500
Moral of the story? How about some suggestions for moral of the story

[loving_alaap]

TV shows are also now accepting the poor *** from Skoda.

Last night on UTV (i forgot the name of show, may be auto car / car & bike show), there was a comparison of Accord & Superb.

The final conclusion: Superb is better in terms of goodies but due to poor *** of Skoda, Accord is the way to go.

This was the clear cut statement by the anchor.