[smsrini]

DAmn, voted a 'NO' when I meant a YES!

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

no issues by cruising at 120-150kmph for hours and hours. Skoda does know how to built a solid car.

A Toyota Camry or Honda Accord will beat the pants off a Skoda Superb in terms of reliability and lower maintenance costs over lakhs of kilometers.

Read about the terrible experiences of Skoda owners right here on TBHP.
Obviously Skoda owners need to experience real reliability + good after sales to know the difference A.S.S can make for a better ownership experience.

Rgds,

Originally Posted by drpullockaran

I have made a copy of this post and planning to give it to a friend of mine who is contemplating on buying the new V6 superb. I think this post should be enough to make him run away far from skoda.

And rightfully so. Look at it this way drpullockaran, you'd be only doing him a big favour.

Rgds,

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

... ... so i still stand where i am. skoda is selling a good car and here in cochin and trichur i havent got any hiccups till now.

"My house isn't flooded: it isn't raining at all" seems to be the gist of your argument.

Nobody is saying skoda is necessarily a bad car; nobody is saying even that all dealerships are bad dealerships. What they are saying is that there are shockingly bad dealerships, that it is is easily common enough to matter, and that Skoda's corporate attitude to what happens at it's dealerships stinks.

The events that are getting publicity on this site must be as frustrating for good dealers to see as they are for the customers. Good dealers do not want bad publicity.

[navin]

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

i finally got my solution. when the car is new and in warranty, the best option is marikar itself.

these skoda including those in my circle make frequent trips to banglore and chennai and hyderabad in some cases. no issues by cruising at 120-150kmph for hours and hours. Skoda does know how to built a solid car.

so i still stand where i am. skoda is selling a good car and here in cochin and trichur i havent got any hiccups till now.

Thomas you are part of a smaller crowd. Many of us get very good service. Our resident vRS expert (Ajmat) gets pretty decent service from Vinayak Motors in Bangalore. I too get good service Autobahn in Mumbai. However the argument here is that when a customer gets shortchanged/cheated by a delaer Skoda seems to not bother to anything about it. Take the case of the blown Fabia engine by Marikar themsleves.

Skoda cars are well built and the Octy/Laura/Superb are particularly well suited for long haul highway crusing. They stand well planted on the ground.

The reason we are all upset is that we as consumers want to be sure that if the dealer does not complete their obligation or cheats us the company will stand by and and ensure that the dealer complies. There in lies Skoda's biggest failure. The other issues being the cost and longevity of their spare parts. I understand Skoda is taking some steps to recity the later (spare parts) but as can be seem by the recent case of the Fabia have not yet ensure that their customers are protected from the dealer's misdeeds.

For example Arya Honda also tried some mischief with my wife's car. However just a thread of writing to Honda straightened it out. Dealers will try to make an extra buck here and there it is up the manufacturer to keep the dealers in line after all it is the manufacturer's brand that gets tarnished.

Originally Posted by R2D2

A Toyota Camry or Honda Accord will beat the pants off a Skoda Superb in terms of reliability and lower maintenance costs over lakhs of kilometers.

I dont know if any rigorous study has been made comapring the cost of maintaninace (over say 3 years) of the Camry, Accord and Superb (of even the older versions).

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

"The events that are getting publicity on this site must be as frustrating for good dealers to see as they are for the customers. Good dealers do not want bad publicity.

Good dealers unfortunately get dealt a raw hand. They have to make up for the misdeeds of the lesser dealers. They really have their work cut out for them.

[ImmortalZ]

Thomas, there are two Lauras in my family. I told both their owners about the shoddy service and iffy reliability. They both shrugged off my warnings with a "never heard of anything like that. None of my friends have problems.". Well, those cars are both out of warranty and literally days later, one has lost it's A/C and the other blew it's turbo. They both have lakhs of rupees gone out of pocket. When I heard their sob story from them, I pointed and laughed in their face. What irked me the most when I saw the bills (after I stopped laughing) is that they replace so many parts for a single failure and they don't even bother to diagnose what's wrong. A/C no cooling saar? Okay, change whole A/C system and slap a multi lakh bill on the customer. Turbo gone? Let's change everything from the manifolds to the intercooler. It's pathetic.

That'll be the end of Skoda in my extended family. There is a saying in Malayalam "Paranjalariyatha pilla kondariyum". It means that whoever doesn't listen will understand when they experience. I might have murdered the chollu there, but the gist of it is that.

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

i finally got my solution.

Did you have a problem to find a solution?

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

( in the case within my circle they are only unhappy with skoda spare parts charges. the headlights in the L&k octavia cost a freakin 17k rs!!)

skoda is doing good business.

One look at Skoda's finacials sums up both the statements above. Bleeding financials leading to higher dependancy on dealers leading to inability to reign in the defrauding dealers leading to dealers indulging in "cheating".
Bleeding Finacials also may lead to charging Rs. 17K for headlights & likewise other spares.

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

i didnt see any effect of team -bhp at marikar cochin

Kudos to you. Its only very short time that Marikar case is brought our here & you want to have effects in this very short time.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

"My house isn't flooded: it isn't raining at all" seems to be the gist of your argument.

Extremely extremely well summed up.

Originally Posted by ImmortalZ

Thomas, there are two Lauras in my family. I told both their owners about the shoddy service and iffy reliability. They both shrugged off my warnings with a "never heard of anything like that. None of my friends have problems.". Well, those cars are both out of warranty and literally days later, one has lost it's A/C and the other blew it's turbo. They both have lakhs of rupees gone out of pocket. When I heard their sob story from them, I pointed and laughed in their face. What irked me the most when I saw the bills (after I stopped laughing) is that they replace so many parts for a single failure and they don't even bother to diagnose what's wrong. A/C no cooling saar? Okay, change whole A/C system and slap a multi lakh bill on the customer. Turbo gone? Let's change everything from the manifolds to the intercooler. It's pathetic.

That'll be the end of Skoda in my extended family. There is a saying in Malayalam "Paranjalariyatha pilla kondariyum". It means that whoever doesn't listen will understand when they experience. I might have murdered the chollu there, but the gist of it is that.

Thomas - got the gist now? Very weak fiancials coupled with similar ethics & intentions leading to what.

[Thomas8700]

buddy immortal the saying is different ariyatha pilla choriyumbol ariyum.
so here the main issue seems to be Skoda not showing an iron hand to its dealers.

in kerala its pretty much like a monopoly only marikar guys are there. if skoda does end up cancelling a dealership then there is no one left in kerala??!!

about the repair thingy yes first the car are usually had a look at from the outside guys.
since its a major practise in european brands to just go about replacing instead of diagnose and repairing. ( the logic is that other components which are old will interfere with the new components and vice versa, leading to more problems. there are certain components where this is indeed true. but thats not the point of discussion here. )
they just tell us whats wrong and thats it. we get the work done from dealer only if the required spares are rare and is easier to source from the dealer.

there is a benz 250D also in the circle. it has never seen MB dealer since it was bought from a bishop in kotayam.

i have not faced issues so how why should i vote a yes?
when you have faced problems no matter which brand it is you should speak out
but here skoda is having a devil kind of image. and you know who has an angel image

and please dont compare the skoda to tin boxes!!
as pointed in my earlier post one of the skodas have run 230k kms. other has run 130k kms and one is low mileage 110k kms. lolz.
all are doing good. then how the hell should i argue with my relatives that skoda is not reliable??

and as per posts from fellow members skoda is definitely having dealerships who are indeed good. arent there bad dealers in all of the brands. isnt tata also a bit notorious?? why the big red neon arrow to skoda??

and furthermore here people are calling older folks who had worked all their younger life while we guys have a jolly time, as filthy rich and foolish?? whats this supposed to mean?

i know i know all the rest of the people think that the guys who voted no like me are plain foolish!! . so then i choose to be foolish!!

happy motoring
thomas.

[navin]

Thomas maybe you missed the question:

Should Team-BHP stand up for its right to the freedom of speech? For the TRUTH?

By voting NO you argue that TBHP should NOT stand up for the right to the freedom of speech. You are still entitled to your opinion and wont bear grudge with you for your opinion but I suspect you may have mis-read the question.

That said, it has been mentioned many many times that Skoda does (generally) make good cars. It is just that we (TBHP) would like to see more punitive action from Skoda against their errant dealers. Just by the number of poor service reports faced by customers of SKdoa's dealers we feel that Skoda has given it's dealers a free reign and commands little or no accountability from them. Skoda needs to close the loop and engage directly with customers who have had major work done by their dealers.

[Thomas8700]

nope i didnt miss the question i read between the lines

i dont know about mumbai. but in my state there is only one dealer for skoda. and because of this skoda has no choice but to let dealers have their way. sad situation really.

thats not the case with hyundai and with maruthi is definitely not the situation. lots of choices so there is good competition to statisfy the customers more.

but when its a single dealer. the customers dont have a choice!!
so if skoda plans to put a firm foot down. they better have more dealerships opened!!

[navin]

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

nope i didnt miss the question i read between the lines

i dont know about mumbai. but in my state there is only one dealer for skoda. and because of this skoda has no choice but to let dealers have their way. sad situation really.

thats not the case with hyundai and with maruthi is definitely not the situation. lots of choices so there is good competition to statisfy the customers more.

but when its a single dealer. the customers dont have a choice!!
so if skoda plans to put a firm foot down. they better have more dealerships opened!!

What prevents Skoda from appointing another dealer for your area? In Mumbai Skoda did discontinue the Nummer Eins dealership (that was the first dealer to cheat Harish) and appointed JMD. Even Honda motors has appointed a new dealer (Apex I think) for South Mumbai only a few weeks / months ago.

I would not compare Skoda's reach to say Maruti or Hyundai but more to Toyota (whose dealers really support the Corolla and Innova most of the time), Honda, Ford, GM etc. who are really all niche players with less than 10% market share each.

Skopda started off fantastically with the 1.9Tdi. then lost the plot. Now they have to play catch up. I cant say they are not trying, but I can say that they are not trying hard enough and there is no consintent program to address issues faced by customers who have been wronged by dealers.

Skoda cars are well built and some were even great cars. It is why so many Mods own/owned Skoda. If however they cant put in place a process that will deter dealers from trying to cheat customers or systems in place to rectify this instances they are going to loose out on the confidence of the public. Skoda may not realise this but, TBHP is just the tip of the iceberg. A sort of early warning system if you may.

Thomas maybe you are your relatives were lucky. Maybe many other Skoda customers are lucky but the number of those who have been unlucky does not justify the meagre sales share Skoda has in India. We do not see reports of the same degree of callous behaviour (in the number of cases and the degree of callousness) from dealers of Honda or Toyota (who are niche players) or Hyundai or Maruti (who each outsell Skoda 40:1).

I really really like the Superb. Each time I drive it I like it more. But will I buy it? Will I buy it even after I, personally, have had pretty good service from Autobahn-Skoda in recent times (around Feb 2009 onwards)? I get the feeling that (a) the quality of service I am currently enjoying at Autobahn is due to the efforts of one particular service manager; what happens if he leaves for greener pastures? (b) the quality of service I enjoy is becuase Autobahn and Skoda are most likely aware that I have met their senior most management and that I am a Mod on TBHP. Untill I see evidence that this is not the reason of their improved service I cannot fully recommend the car even though I this it is superb car at a superb price.

I can say with certainty that atleast 2 of my friends also have their hearts set on the superb. All 3 of us are eagerly waiting for Skoda to change it's spots. We want to see evidence of systems and processes. We want to see resolution in cases like the Fabia that has been mentioned on this thread. We want some fair settlement to Harish who continues to pay EMIs on a car he does not have.

Just my opinion. You are ofcourse entitled to yours. No hard feelings.

[akj53]

I agree with Navin. Nothing wrong with Skoda cars in fact they are very good cars. But problem lies mostly in the following areas

1. SKoda does not test their cars for Indian conditions properly which leads to complications like poor engine performance (Fabia) or frequent parts failure.

2. Skoda do not seem to have any dealer training and monitoring system in place. Service people can make a genuine mistake, but deliberate cheating should be punished severely by Skoda immediately and customer should be compensated promptly and justly. The principal company is fully responsible for its dealers acts of omission and commission. Why should customer suffer?

I have seen this system in Toyota setup. My dealer's service people work professionally and there seem to proper checks in place. Toyota also conducts independent customer surveys to check and sales and service standards.

[ImmortalZ]

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

in kerala its pretty much like a monopoly only marikar guys are there. if skoda does end up cancelling a dealership then there is no one left in kerala??!!

They appoint new ones? It costs Skoda nothing to appoint new dealers. It's the dealers that have to cough up crores upon crores of rupees to become a dealer. And for the better or worse, all the big groups would love to have a piece of the Skoda pie.

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

about the repair thingy yes first the car are usually had a look at from the outside guys.
since its a major practise in european brands to just go about replacing instead of diagnose and repairing. ( the logic is that other components which are old will interfere with the new components and vice versa, leading to more problems. there are certain components where this is indeed true. but thats not the point of discussion here. )
they just tell us whats wrong and thats it. we get the work done from dealer only if the required spares are rare and is easier to source from the dealer.

That's not true and you know it (you should, with your supposed technical background).

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

there is a benz 250D also in the circle. it has never seen MB dealer since it was bought from a bishop in kotayam.

That's too bad since MB has one of the better dealership networks in the country.

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

i have not faced issues so how why should i vote a yes?

You did not read the question.

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

when you have faced problems no matter which brand it is you should speak out
but here skoda is having a devil kind of image. and you know who has an angel image

and please dont compare the skoda to tin boxes!!

Ahh, NOW it comes out. If this thread was about a Japanese brand, with the same question in the poll, you would vote yes. Even after you supposedly "read between the lines".

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

as pointed in my earlier post one of the skodas have run 230k kms. other has run 130k kms and one is low mileage 110k kms. lolz.

I bet you any money that they are both Octavia TDis. They are fantastic long term cars. Let's see a Laura run the same kilometers without major part replacements.

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

all are doing good. then how the hell should i argue with my relatives that skoda is not reliable??

and as per posts from fellow members skoda is definitely having dealerships who are indeed good. arent there bad dealers in all of the brands. isnt tata also a bit notorious?? why the big red neon arrow to skoda??

Because,

a) TATA lights a fire under their dealerships when they mess up.
b) TATA dealerships are yet to steal vital car parts and replace them with counterfeit ones.
c) Bad TATA dealerships are a rotten apple among many good ones as opposed to how a good Skoda dealership is a good apple in a basket of rotten ones.
d) There are as many or more TATA ownership report threads on this forum as Skoda. I'm yet to see a post in one of these where the owner complained that the dealership ran a car without oil and then dumped the bill on the customer.

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

and furthermore here people are calling older folks who had worked all their younger life while we guys have a jolly time, as filthy rich and foolish?? whats this supposed to mean?

i know i know all the rest of the people think that the guys who voted no like me are plain foolish!! . so then i choose to be foolish!!

happy motoring
thomas.

I don't see where that was said.
But I'm happy to call people foolish, old or young, hard working or trust fund babies, when they behave foolish.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by akj53

1. SKoda does not test their cars for Indian conditions properly which leads to complications like poor engine performance (Fabia) or frequent parts failure.

.

The Superb had extensive testing judging by the no of prototypres running around Bangalore. I only saw 1 fabia that too in pristine condition with badges covered

It costs Skoda nothing to appoint new dealers. It's the dealers that have to cough up crores upon crores of rupees to become a dealer. And for the better or worse, all the big groups would love to have a piece of the Skoda pie.

Alas capital is in short supply, skoda's crashing figures not encouraging to a lender creating a downward spiral

[greenhorn]

and to add to ImmortalZ's points, Not only does tata not steal parts, they give replacements FOC, even if its not entirely tata's fault. You can read about the threads where tata vehicles had engine issues, and absolutely everything was changed FOC And I have had things gone missing from my car, but mostly small things like wheelcaps and spanners which they misplace and forget to put back when giving back, and not things like my Clutch or compressor. And even then, we do get them back. One is incompetence. The other is premeditated theft

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

and please dont compare the skoda to tin boxes!!

and furthermore here people are calling older folks who had worked all their younger life while we guys have a jolly time, as filthy rich and foolish?? whats this supposed to mean?

i know i know all the rest of the people think that the guys who voted no like me are plain foolish!! . so then i choose to be foolish!!

Arent we going a little over the top here?

If a company chooses to ignore customer feedback then they are doomed. And if Skoda customers are happy with the raw deal dished out by the dealers and company then they surely deserve it. All the rest of us can do is smirk and shake our heads in amazement.

As for tin boxes, Thomas, let me tell you that the so called 'tank like' Skoda has more problems then any of the major Jap brands. Read around on the net and this forum, you would know. Of course you could always turn a blind eye. Brings to my mind the old adage about an ostrich and sand. t

The Czech brand figures nowhere on a global car mfrs radar. Skoda is a bit player and simply doesnt qualify as competition for the likes of Toyota and Honda. Toyota didnt get to be the largest car manufacturer in the world by producing high maintenance cars and dishing out even crappier after sales service to their customers.

Skoda's line - "Obsessed by quality since 1895" Yeahhh...rrrrigght!

Rgds,