[vvb8530]

Dear Mods,

Please excuse me and merge the thread if this information has already been shared and discussed.

Just got to know that 2 of Skoda's Mumbai dealers Senator Motors and Skoda Autobahn are both owned by the same family. The Choksi family of Choksi Motors, the same family that got into trouble with the imported car tax and duty evasion scam. The owner of Senator is the son in law of the Choksi's.

Also if i remember correct in one of the Skoda horror stories thread it was revealed that Choksi's daughter Meghna is the PR head of Skoda India. The owner of Senator motors is the husband of this same daughter.

They have even shut down the only other Skoda dealer in Mumbai, JMD Skoda's dealership in Andheri and converted it into JMD Chevrolet. I am not sure if JMD is still the dealer for Skoda and operating out of some other part of the city. If not then all the Skodas being sold in Mumbai are being sold through one family. Is this ethical? Is it also right on Skoda India's part that one of their senior employee's immediate family owns 2 of their 3 dealerships in the city? And the family does not even have a clean record.

The owner of Senator also owns AVK Ford, AVK Force and Asthvinayak Chevrolet.

Do car companies have some sort of a deal with these dealers? In Skoda's case to me it all appears to be some sort of a deal or a scam with their dealers.

Regards,
VVB

[Shreyas Aterkar]

@ VVB - I have also heard that senator and autobahn are owned by the same family and have their presence in western mumbai and towards south mumbai, both senator and autobahn have 2 dealerships each. Senator got one from JMD. JMD also have 2 dealerships now, one in Thane and another in Vashi. They cover central and navi Mumbai. Regarding the additional dealership, skoda would see the strong financial backing that the family has and the fact that these are legally 2 different entities, so thats about it. Also, JMD sales exec told me that reducing one of their dealerships is a policy of equal distribution of dealerships by skoda. IMHO, awarding dealerships would be similar with many brands - financial backing and influence.

[StarrySky]

I don't think 2 dealerships owned by same persons is illegal or unethical. Only problem is Skoda dealers have a poor reputations. If their reputation was better, I think everyone would've welcomed two dealerships owned by the same guys.

The other problem I see in this particular example is close proximity of the dealerships in question to the top management of Skoda. Again, not so bad for customers if the dealership is honest.

[niket.dhirai]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

I don't think 2 dealerships owned by same persons is illegal or unethical. Only problem is Skoda dealers have a poor reputations. If their reputation was better, I think everyone would've welcomed two dealerships owned by the same guys.

The other problem I see in this particular example is close proximity of the dealerships in question to the top management of Skoda. Again, not so bad for customers if the dealership is honest.

Agreed , free market economy allows you to own the whole world and gives the incumbent an advantage by creating a sort of monopolistic market. Muscat has a similar family Bahwan Group who practically owns most of the dealerships in Oman and they are doing well because they service their clients.

A month ago JMD Skoda representatives who was unable to give a test drive of Skoda Yeti , promptly declared that Skoda has discontinued Yeti and a new model is to replace the Yeti. This made me call Skoda helpline and they denied any such move and on the top of it I have received a call to from JMD Vashi that they will fix a test drive soon for me. Subsequently after nearly 2 follow ups , I m still waiting for a test drive. After reading through this thread , I have given up the idea of considering Yeti as an option.

[vvb8530]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

I don't think 2 dealerships owned by same persons is illegal or unethical. Only problem is Skoda dealers have a poor reputations. If their reputation was better, I think everyone would've welcomed two dealerships owned by the same guys.

The other problem I see in this particular example is close proximity of the dealerships in question to the top management of Skoda. Again, not so bad for customers if the dealership is honest.

I am not concerned about one person owning more than 1 dealership as long as they are of different companies, but one person/ family owning all available dealerships of the same brand and in the same city is a concern even if they create 2 separate entities.

We always read and discuss on the forum especially in the buying experience sections, as to how if a bhpian has not got a satisfactory response from one dealer they then try out another dealer and the experience here more than often is much better or how one dealership offers a better deal/discounts as compared to the other. If all the dealerships in a city are owned by one person/ family then they have created a monopolistic market and with no competition they will probably offer the same deals and a similar buying experience and customers will not have a choice.

Coming to the point of a member of the senior management owning the dealership specially for a brand like Skoda only further arises suspicion in my mind.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by vvb8530

I am not concerned about one person owning more than 1 dealership as long as they are of different companies, but one person/ family owning all available dealerships of the same brand and in the same city is a concern even if they create 2 separate entities

The ownership should be of no concern to the customers. The only concern is/should be how the dealership is run. Ultimately, that's the only thing that affects the customers.

[Shreyas Aterkar]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

The ownership should be of no concern to the customers. The only concern is/should be how the dealership is run. Ultimately, that's the only thing that affects the customers.

+1 to that.

My experience with the three skoda dealerships in Mumbai have been as follows when I was trying to buy the laura TSI:

Autobahn, Andheri - Lied me about the actual discount. Quoted lower discount that what was officially going on and then increased the same stating goodwill gesture as I had come with a reference. Rejected

Senator, Goregaon - Very enthusiastic sales guy, but never quoted me a realistic price. On phone, they always stated a discount of 1 lakhs when the discounts were ~ 2.5 - 3 lakhs. Even if they had indicated the official discounts, I could have gone to them and negotiated. Rejected

JMD, Thane - They were very upfront. They delivered what they said. Be it discounts or anything. I had asked them for the latest possible manufactured laura TSI. They checked with Skoda and told me september'11 is what I can get. I said ok. After the car arrived at their stockyard, I noticed it was a july'11 manufactured car, they arranged a call with skoda and then reordered the september'11 car. Though this should have been the case upfront but nevertheless it was corrected. Went ahead with them. Hope they keep up to the expectations in future.

[samyboy]

Originally Posted by Shreyas Aterkar

+1 to that.

Autobahn, Andheri - Lied me about the actual discount. Quoted lower discount that what was officially going on and then increased the same stating goodwill gesture as I had come with a reference. Rejected

Senator, Goregaon - Very enthusiastic sales guy, but never quoted me a realistic price. On phone, they always stated a discount of 1 lakhs when the discounts were ~ 2.5 - 3 lakhs. Even if they had indicated the official discounts, I could have gone to them and negotiated. Rejected

Shreyas, principally there is nothing wrong in holding back on discounts that one can give in hope to achieve higher margins. As a matter of act, discounts are at discretion of dealership unless there is a price drop announced by Skoda. Do correct me if my understanding is wrong. ( I had to haggle a lot for Yeti 2012 that I recently purchased )

[vvb8530]

Originally Posted by Shreyas Aterkar

+1 to that.
====Though this should have been the case upfront but nevertheless it was corrected. Went ahead with them. Hope they keep up to the expectations in future.

This is exactly the point I am trying to make. Both Autobahn and Senator offered a similar sort of experience to you by offering lesser discounts.

Now you had the option of going a little outside Bombay to Thane, but if you did not have that option you would have eventually ended up buying from either Autobahn or Senator out of no other choice. Hence they have managed to create a monopolistic market for themselves leaving customers with no choice but to buy from them even though they are offering lesser discounts thereby making higher margins.

I am quite certain that this will always be the case if you compare prices of Autobahn & Senator VS JMD (Thane/ Navi Mumbai). As Autobahn & Senator will make sure that both of them offer lesser discounts. This could also be the same when you compare their buying and after sales experience. Again I could be wrong but this is my opinion.

VVB

[Shreyas Aterkar]

Originally Posted by samyboy

Shreyas, principally there is nothing wrong in holding back on discounts that one can give in hope to achieve higher margins. As a matter of act, discounts are at discretion of dealership unless there is a price drop announced by Skoda. Do correct me if my understanding is wrong. ( I had to haggle a lot for Yeti 2012 that I recently purchased )

Well, principally its not wrong to quote lower prices and then negotiate. I agree to that. Slightly different case here. As I understand, there is an offer from the manufacturer and above that there is an offer from the dealer. In this case the offer from the manufacturer was Rs. 2.25 lakhs of discount + corporate offer. Over and above this, dealers can quote higher discounts which they can compensate from the already high insurance cost and registration fees. This offer was the same in case of both Ambition and RS. Autobahn quoted me 2 lakhs as manufacturer discount and corp discount over and above that. And then as a goodwill gesture increased it by another 25k. They said offer for RS was even lower (again incorrect). I found this attitude wrong. Senator's case was different as they were not willing to even give out an indicative quote, though as per some of our fellow members, they were giving discounts in line with what JMD gave me.

Originally Posted by vvb8530

This is exactly the point I am trying to make. Both Autobahn and Senator offered a similar sort of experience to you by offering lesser discounts.

Now you had the option of going a little outside Bombay to Thane, but if you did not have that option you would have eventually ended up buying from either Autobahn or Senator out of no other choice. Hence they have managed to create a monopolistic market for themselves leaving customers with no choice but to buy from them even though they are offering lesser discounts thereby making higher margins.

I am quite certain that this will always be the case if you compare prices of Autobahn & Senator VS JMD (Thane/ Navi Mumbai). As Autobahn & Senator will make sure that both of them offer lesser discounts. This could also be the same when you compare their buying and after sales experience. Again I could be wrong but this is my opinion.

VVB

Well as I said above the experience with Senator and Autobahn was slightly different. Senator never really quoted me an indic price which was close to the market and asked me to come to their showroom. I did not go as I thought if their initial discount is so low, I should not waste time. Though, as per a fellow bhpian he was quoted discounts (manufacturer+dealer) similar to that quoted by JMD.

In terms of one going out of Mumbai, its not an issue. You just end up having more kms on the odo before delivery. JMD, Thane got me a MH02 number. They have their workshop at Kandivali so I hope they meet the expectations. But, yes as you said, if both dealerships are not given enough independence, then they can take the customer for a ride.

[Trojan]

Originally Posted by vvb8530

This is exactly the point I am trying to make. Both Autobahn and Senator offered a similar sort of experience to you by offering lesser discounts.
VVB

+1 to that, if all dealerships are owned by a single family creation of a monopolistic environment is obvious.
Yes, experience with the dealers need to be checked but what are we expecting here, different experiences - maybe but class leading? This I am not too sure, as there is nothing to measure it upon.
In terms of experience, a customer would expect to be delighted, and this delightful service is offered by few dealerships who take the pain to understand the customers requirements and gather feedback and good business practices overall to come up with an action plan.
This is not possible to its actual effectiveness in a monopolistic environment because as it is the customer is left with no choice.

Cheers!

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by vvb8530

Hence they have managed to create a monopolistic market for themselves leaving customers with no choice but to buy from them even though they are offering lesser discounts thereby making higher margins.

So what? Are you concerned that you are not able to play the dealers against each other to avail more discounts? You want maximum discounts, dealers want to give the minimum - it's the same if they are owned by different people or the same guys.

The customers have another option - not to buy Skoda - which is what will happen if the dealers are not able to meet the customer's expectations (either in discount or in service). Then the monopolistic market will not do them any good, would it?

If I'm not mistaken, the Toyota dealerships in about 4 or 5 districts in Kerala are owned by the same person. But we don't hear anyone questioning that because Toyota service experience is supposed to be second to none.

[46TheDoctor]

Skoda cars are really addictive to use when everything is working fine, especially the vRS, but a real pain when it comes to maintainance because of the exhorbitant spares prices and inconsistancy with quality of workmanship, attitude, ethics of authorised service stations.
Best way out of it is to buy a less run, well maintained used car and maintain it with a good private mechanic. This is exactly i am going to do till skoda improves it's a.s.s. and makes available the countersale for spares. No new cars from skoda till such times for me.

[vvb8530]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

So what? Are you concerned that you are not able to play the dealers against each other to avail more discounts? You want maximum discounts, dealers want to give the minimum - it's the same if they are owned by different people or the same guys.

The customers have another option - not to buy Skoda - which is what will happen if the dealers are not able to meet the customer's expectations (either in discount or in service). Then the monopolistic market will not do them any good, would it?

If I'm not mistaken, the Toyota dealerships in about 4 or 5 districts in Kerala are owned by the same person. But we don't hear anyone questioning that because Toyota service experience is supposed to be second to none.

Yes that is exactly my concern that there won't be any competition for the dealers for me to play them for more discounts. Yes I want maximum discounts and yes dealers want to give the minimum but no it will not be the same if they have competition. Competition in any market or economy will drive a supplier to give customers better prices/ discounts or better service to increase their market share.

Skoda offers good products there is no doubt in it, the only point that drives me away from buying one is the attitude of the dealers and their after sales. Yes i do have that option of not buying a skoda but people in general do buy their products because they make good cars. Their products have a good market which is why their dealers are resorting to such techniques.

You are absolutely right we do not question Toyota as we trust the brand but the whole point of this thread and any information on it is because Skoda as a brand we do not trust. Which is why I am raising questions and doubts. I have personally got nothing against the dealers or their families. Hope I am not being misunderstood.

Regards.

[riteshritesh]

I was planning on buying the skoda superb ( Diesel top end version) from Autobahn. Visited them and wanted a TD of the same diesel version. After waiting for a week, they couldnt provide a TD, citing strange reasons, like car is being repaired/serviced ( they mustn't be getting spares for their own vehicles). Contacted JMD at Vashi and they promptly arranged for a TD. However, in the meanwhile, some wellwishers informed me of 2 Superbs in Pune, owned by their friends, lying for longer durations at the Service stations for want of spares.
Changed my mind and purchased the Audi A4 2.0