[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

And frankly, only 10% of the vehicle owning crowd would consider a 3-door hatch.

Just wanted to point out that if one in every ten buyers wanted a three door hatch, we'd be inundated with options by now. I suspect that the manufacturers believe the number to be 0.0something percent.

Overall, I know what you mean. No demand, and therefore, no three door hatches.

Maybe things will change in the future so people like sohail have an off the shelf option rather than go through the bother of converting a four door to a two door.

EDIT: The poll results are quite astonishing too

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

self centered would be more apt here, by demanding a 2 door hatch, you were not hurting others chances.

why not customize the cars available already?

Customizing and modifying a 5-door hatch into a 3-door isn't feasible and worth the trouble.

• You will have to spend quite a lot of money to get it done.
• Most conversions, if not crude, wouldn't be of the same standard as cars that are originally 3-door.
• Plus, some of the structural integrity and rigidity of the car would be lost in the process.
• The warranty of the car would be void almost instantly!
• And to top it off, the resale value would be next to nothing once you've completed the conversion.
• The RTO officials wouldn't take kindly to it, I'm sure

You really don't need more reasons than these!

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Just wanted to point out that if one in every ten buyers wanted a three door hatch, we'd be inundated with options by now. I suspect that the manufacturers believe the number to be 0.0something percent.

Overall, I know what you mean. No demand, and therefore, no three door hatches.

Maybe things will change in the future so people like sohail have an off the shelf option rather than go through the bother of converting a four door to a two door.

EDIT: The poll results are quite astonishing too

Precisely!

The change will happen but it will take some time. Remember, there was once a time when our Zen was considered to be a premium hatch. The market is growing fast. Who would've thought that the Punto, i20 et al, would sell in such large numbers despite the hefty, sedan-territory, price tag? There will come a day when, hopefully, we will see properly expensive hatchbacks like the Golf and the BMW 1 Series prowl around city roads!

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by sohail99

vivekiny2k pls don't flame me for this! (just my point of view)

no, in my last post I actually supported you, saying you were not being selfish. It's just that these options may not be economically viable for the manufacturers yet.

Well since I'm not the family man types, 2 door hatch is the practical option for me aint it?

that's because you are a 22 yr old. And there will always be 22 year olds demanding 3 door hatches, wait till you switch your party

[sanagg1]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

Customizing and modifying a 5-door hatch into a 3-door isn't feasible and worth the trouble.

• You will have to spend quite a lot of money to get it done. Not Actually Refer to my post earlier
• Most conversions, if not crude, wouldn't be of the same standard as cars that are originally 3-door.Again not really
• Plus, some of the structural integrity and rigidity of the car would be lost in the process. Not at all. Please be rest assured
• The warranty of the car would be void almost instantly! Yep got to bear with it
• And to top it off, the resale value would be next to nothing once you've completed the conversion. Customised car and resale No No No
• The RTO officials wouldn't take kindly to it, I'm sure.They anyway don't take anything kindly without errr...
  

You really don't need more reasons than these!

Precisely!

My observations are in bold. However you can refer to my earlier post also

cheers

[Live To Jive]

Originally Posted by theMAG

India does not buy 2-door. Cars are very much a functional asset rather than recreational - nothing like that 5-door hatch to increase people/luggage loading.
The remaining 0.01 % who dont conform to this segment are rich enough to buy direct imports with 2-doors.

I don't conform to this segment but I'm not rich enough to go in for an import.

Originally Posted by sohail99

AFAIK, Hyundai i20's 3-door variant is being manufactured here, but only for export purposes! at least give it as an option to Indian customers! Heck, I'd even buy it for a premium!
Unfortunately, all we get is leftovers! :(

I'd love one of those

Originally Posted by wanderernomad

India is a big country.
India has a large population.
India has large families.
Indian families travel together.
Indian families pack for a fortnight for a weekend outing.
Indian like everything in numbers, more the better.
The list can go on and on.

I am not responsible for India's high population
I have a small family
My family rarely travels together
I never over pack for an outing.

Yet I have to pay the price for someone's mistakes and irresponsibility and have to be deprived of a 3 door car.

[shankar.balan]

Here in India a car is more of an utility/ functional product rather than a fun/ recreational toy.

Plus dont forget the average family has at least 3 -4 people that have to be moved about in reasonable comfort. Ease of ingress/egress etc are all considerably important and better in a 5 door hatch than in a 3 door hatch.

Maybe as things develop in this market socially and economically and more and more families go nuclear and subscribe to the We 2 Ours 1 or the DINK philosophy, over time, the 3 door hatch market could develop to a greater extent. Or perhaps the student market may buy a 3 door hatch.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by sanagg1

Customizing and modifying a 5-door hatch into a 3-door isn't feasible and worth the trouble.

• You will have to spend quite a lot of money to get it done. Not Actually Refer to my post earlier
• Most conversions, if not crude, wouldn't be of the same standard as cars that are originally 3-door.Again not really
• Plus, some of the structural integrity and rigidity of the car would be lost in the process. Not at all. Please be rest assured.

My observations are in bold. However you can refer to my earlier post also

cheers

Could you elaborate, please?

1) Suppose you want to convert your 5-door Swift to a 3-door Swift, you need to shell out a minimum of 1 lakh if not more to get the modification done. Isn't 1 lakh a lot of money just to convert something to your preference, and that too, something that doesn't have much utility/function and is more of a fad-mod?

2) True, some conversions may not be crude and may be almost factory-spec. But wouldn't that cost even more than 1 lakh? Plus, I haven't seen a single conversion like this that isn't crude. Even DC (I'm not talking about his designs), who is known for his fantastic quality, is known to have made conversions that aren't up-to the mark in terms of outright quality.

3) You are essentially shortening the length of the wheel-base by putting it on the chopping block. There is no way you can replicate a factory-spec 3-door. Think about it. The original 3-doors are built from scratch whereas in conversions, you're using a base and working on it and modifying it. It will never be as perfect as the original.

[avi550m]

As everyone has already said, why only 5 door hatchbacks?

Practicality
Practicality
Practicality

Practicality sells in the hatch segments. When the price goes up and we move to the higher segments like Sedans, SUV's and imports, other considerations also have precedence. But you have to remember that hatchbacks are normally first cars or perhaps the only cars which many people/families own. Hence it would only make sense to buy a car which satisfies the utility purpose, and sacrifices can be made on style/power etc (Why do you think the butt-ugly first Gen Santro sold in the first place, cos it was immensely practical).

And in India, I guess that we are a more family oriented society still instead of more single oriented. Ergo, 5 door hatches for kids/friends/parents/relatives etc, for ease of access and more space.

Of course, like in so many things, the Majority rules, while the minority (read: Enthusiasts) aren't listened to.

[CARDEEP]

I feel that because of the family culture that we have in our country (unlike the "single ready to mingle" culture in West) the sale of 3 door cars in India doesn't exist on a larger scale.

Although majority of the time the owner of the car is driving alone, but, the ratio of family drives in India is higher as compared to west, vis-a-vis the miles covered. Hence, we feel more doors make practical choice.

[sohail99]

I agree that 3-door hatches might not be practical for huge families on a budget and all! and I'm never against 5-door hatches.

But if 3-door ones are available too(even if on special order), it would be a luxury for us minority.

Its not like, if the 3-door ones are made available, the huge family ppl will buy that instead of the 5-door one! They are free to buy the 5-door ones or sedans if they please.

All the 'overpopulation oriented' thinking of the car companies simply points to incomplete research before launching a car!

[avi550m]

Originally Posted by sohail99

I agree that 3-door hatches might not be practical for huge families on a budget and all! and I'm never against 5-door hatches.

But if 3-door ones are available too(even if on special order), it would be a luxury for us minority.

All the 'overpopulation oriented' thinking of the car companies simply points to incomplete research before launching a car!

But if I were a car company, I would try to simplify my production, procurement, distribution, inventory et al. and maintain quality which churning out more cars per day. For that reason I think car companies do not want 3 door hatches in the market.

Also, would not the thee door versions require a shorter wheelbase, and hence, different tooling costs? In terms of scale, producing the necessary parts for a three door probably doesn't make sense.

Not to mention, in the market research conducted by these companies, at least 90-95% would have stated a preference for five door hatches. The minority are just not profitable for the companies to consider. Unless, of course, they want to dump their old 3-door stock in India (Zen Carbon and Steel, anyone?)

However, what can be done is by companies like Hyundai or Nissan, which use India as the global production hub for the i10 and i20, they could launch a three door i20 in India, as all the production facilities, tools and parts are already here.

[aroop]

If 3 doors are already getting manufactured for exports, they 'can' be sold in the Indian market. But this would have the following hiccups

- Homologation
- Might require tweaking the heart of the system to get suited to the fuel available here
- Making the vehicle pothole proof
- Marketing and distribution costs of the new product

The price point at which a car can be sold probably does not give a profit to a manufacturer, given the limited demand.

Moreover, Maruti and Hyundai are already running at a full capacity. Why should they bother about such a product?

The 3 door concept might be somewhere in some file gathering dust, waiting for the idea to be unleashed when appropriate.

[v.anand]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

3) You are essentially shortening the length of the wheel-base by putting it on the chopping block. There is no way you can replicate a factory-spec 3-door. Think about it. The original 3-doors are built from scratch whereas in conversions, you're using a base and working on it and modifying it. It will never be as perfect as the original.

I totally agree with your other points on modification but not this one. End of the day, modifying it is a thoroughly impractical solution.

The wheelbase generally remain the same, it did even in the case of Zen Carbon and Steel. It does so for International Swift, Punto, Polo, i20 etc., which have a 3 door option along with 5.

The front doors are further extended and made bigger in size, thus the rear window area looks smaller.

In terms of usable space inside the car, there is hardly any difference between 5 door and 3 door cars for the occupants.

The lack of practicality is mainly due to the rear passengers having to squeeze themselves onto the rear seats through folding of front seats but the door area is slightly larger than 5 door counterparts due to extended doors. Other problem is you need more space to open and close the doors, a problem due to congested city parking lots and narrow parking solutions at homes, not otherwise.

IMO, any 3 door hatch can't be a primary car where rear seats are generally used but a good second or third one. I definitely like to see them being sold here since the market is fast maturing unlike during the Zen Carbon and Steel times where Maruti struggled to sell the 1000 pieces of each that they had planned. Will I buy one when its launched, a big yes.

[sohail99]

Hmmm... I guess then I'll find a company that actually thinks 3-door and invest my money there!

For now importing one seems to be the only way!

btw there was a pic of a 3-door model i20 running on temp plates somewhere in India. Just cant remember the thread

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by v.anand

I totally agree with your other points on modification but not this one. End of the day, modifying it is a thoroughly impractical solution.

The wheelbase generally remain the same, it did even in the case of Zen Carbon and Steel. It does so for International Swift, Punto, Polo, i20 etc., which have a 3 door option along with 5.

The front doors are further extended and made bigger in size, thus the rear window area looks smaller.

In terms of usable space inside the car, there is hardly any difference between 5 door and 3 door cars for the occupants.

The lack of practicality is mainly due to the rear passengers having to squeeze themselves onto the rear seats through folding of front seats but the door area is slightly larger than 5 door counterparts due to extended doors. Other problem is you need more space to open and close the doors, a problem due to congested city parking lots and narrow parking solutions at homes, not otherwise.

IMO, any 3 door hatch can't be a primary car where rear seats are generally used but a good second or third one. I definitely like to see them being sold here since the market is fast maturing unlike during the Zen Carbon and Steel times where Maruti struggled to sell the 1000 pieces of each that they had planned. Will I buy one when its launched, a big yes.

You're absolutely right! I was wrong there. The front-doors are lengthened and the rear glass is made smaller, ergo the wheelbase remains intact. that applies for all hatch-backs. I didn't think of it!



But that said, modifications of any sort aren't feasible in any way. It's highly impractical, too tedious a job and completely unnecessary. Not only will the car's warranty be void, the life of the car shortens in terms of build-quality, finish, etc. And the development of rust is possible!