[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

these are things that make 800 better than NANO:
1) Better range. Nano has a small fuel tank almost comparable to some Indian bikes sold in 150-220cc segment.
2) Better brakes. Nano is simply wrse than the 800 when it comes to braking. It has no discs, its brakes lock easily and brake fade is in abundance.

While I agree about the brakes, is it really a big deal about the fuel-tank capacity ? At 20kmpl, the Nano can easily do 300kms before needing a refill. And we have gas-pumps located at decent intervals on the highways.

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

While I agree about the brakes, is it really a big deal about the fuel-tank capacity ? At 20kmpl, the Nano can easily do 300kms before needing a refill. And we have gas-pumps located at decent intervals on the highways.

Yes, you are right. Its just a minor issue.

[Gooney]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

Don't you feel that a majority of Nano owners will be first time car owners and as this will be there only car, they will be using it for highway runs as well?

Yeah, for driving and being driven in the city I'll also prefer Nano. Provided I have a bigger car in my garage and Nano will act as a second/third car.

I am a bit confused on this front. Before the launch I had no doubts that the Nano will be an upgrade for two-wheeler owners. It made absolute sense, didn't it? I thought I will see families of 4-5 cramped in a Nano - their first car - going on a weekend shopping trip.
But the weird part is, I have only seen aged gentlemen, young professionals and ladies driving the Nano. This suggests, it is being used as the second car in the urban areas. Have not seen one in the rural areas though.
Maybe I have not seen enough Nanos but from what I have seen, honestly, I am a bit puzzled. Could be, once it no longer needs bookings, we might see the Nano like we imagined

[AyAn!]

Based on sheer love for cars(!),the 800 is more appealing to me.Steering response,feedback and good fun behind the wheel make it reasonably bang for your buck! Especially the pre-Euro II MPFi with the 5 speed box! Brakes leave a lot to be desired,sadly.

But considering costs and practicality,I guess the Nano comes out on top.That's all there is to it.

[airbender]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

Am not against TATA. Am neither biased towards Maruti. There are a couple of threads started by me where I have criticized Maruti when I should. If you still have doubts, let me know, I'll send the link and that should put to rest any doubts you might have of me being biased towards Maruti.

I do not read each and every thread. But if I am right you did post on Manza test drive thread by GTO. Your post wrote off manza even before you could see the car leave alone test drive. I don't know if you are a fanboy or not but you look to be taking specific pride in punching holes in every tata related thread. Your posts are mainly based on assumptions. Did you drive a Nano? More variants of nano are to be released. Would you agree that Nano is a more practical car if the next variant comes with a boot and is priced less than M800. How can you assume that all the short comings you have pointed out won't be resolved in the future editions/variants?

others@
Well, who decides who is the winner? Market.

Maruti did their market studies and as they did not see enough demand for M800 they pulled the plug on M800. For all people voting for M800, would you still buy it when the owner himself lost the confidence. M800 was selling 6000+ every month before Nano was launched. After the launch, it fell to 2000 and later rose because of the long wait time for Nano. Even now M800 sells less than Nano when the voting on this thread is more or less the same. Why is the difference in pattern?

As I said earlier, none of us can put ourself in this segment buyers shoes. The reason is 60000 price difference is not the same for all. 60K may be chump change for some and that may make all the difference for many.

The game is over guys. Nano has won. M800 sales say that. If there's anything to compare Nano with it's the Alto not M800.

Don't cheer for something you can't buy.

[SunilM]

I voted for Nano.

It is modern both look wise and technologically than antique M800, is cheaper, has more space, looks way better and has a better AC, handling etc.

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

Originally Posted by airbender

I do not read each and every thread. But if I am right you did post on Manza test drive thread by GTO. Your post wrote off manza even before you could see the car leave alone test drive. I don't know if you are a fanboy or not

I do not seem to have a very good memory related to trivial issues but if I remember correctly all my initial posts in the thread you have mentioned were based on facts provided by both the Manufacturers and ACI.

I talked about ARAI figures for FE, acceleration figures from ACI, and power figures from the manufacturers. And its a Fact, mind you, not an assumption that Dzire has marginally better FE and acceleration compared to Manza. My later posts regarding cramped footwell and other minor niggles was after I test drove the car and that too I had mentioned clearly.

My only assumption was regarding the A.S.S. of TATA not being as good as Maruti's and that may or may not be true depending on the location.

but you look to be taking specific pride in punching holes in every tata related thread.

Why are you bent upon getting personal? How would you feel if I say you look to be taking specific pride in being dismissive about Maruti and supportive of TATA in every TATA Vs. Maruti thread?

Your posts are mainly based on assumptions.

Kindly explain what makes you feel so. Also, show me one post of mine on this thread which does not have FACTS about both the cars. Also, the only assumption I have made are not baseless. (Ex- People opting for roof-racks for lack of boot in Nano.)

If you don't have anything left in support of Nano atleast spare the fellow bhpians of statements like "content in your posts is asumed", its sounds like a more polite wayof saying "your posts are false".

Did you drive a Nano?

Atleast 500 kms in the city and around 200 kms on Lucknow-Kanpur highway.

More variants of nano are to be released.

Maybe, but why are you not concentrating on present scenario?
Why always "800 will be discontinued"/"better Nano will be launched" etc.?

Well why not leave future issues to be discussed in future itself and concentrate on present issues?


I can quote atleast a handlful of posts where you have written about "you can't buy 800 " (even when its on sale all over the country save for 13 cities) , " TATA will launch a better Nano" and stuffs. Isn't all these 'assuming'?

Would you agree that Nano is a more practical car if the next variant comes with a boot and is priced less than M800.

No.
But it gets as much power as 800, a boot, better brakes my answer will be YES even if its priced a bit at par with the 800.

How can you assume that all the short comings you have pointed out won't be resolved in the future editions/variants?

Show me one post of mine where I have mentioned anything like it. As for assuming bit its you who assumed that I assumed.

And again as for future, let it happen, and I'll react to it accordingly.

others@
Well, who decides who is the winner? Market.

Really?

By that logic, and I wasn't in mood to bring this in between but still, Dzire sells far more than Indigo Manza (and a bit more than all indigos together).

Its a fact and you may consult any data and correct me if am wrong.

SO, you accept that Dzire is better than Manza because its demand in market is more? Are you ready to withdraw your comments regarding manza being a better product that you made in that thread?

The game is over guys. Nano has won. M800 sales say that.

M800 sales have been falling ever since Alto's price had fallen.It has been dying a slow death since last 4 years. More than the Nano, its the Alto which has over-taken 800 in every aspect. Instead of consulting data from last few months, consult the data and 'pattern' of last few years.

If there's anything to compare Nano with it's the Alto not M800.

Why not? Let's start Alto Vs. Nano and see for ourselves. It will be one hell of an interesting comparo.

Don't cheer for something you can't buy.

Are there only 13 cities in India? Do you want a written clarification from some MS dealer that he still sells 800?

And you say I don't talk about facts and merely assume things. Come on!

And finally, what makes you think that cheering a product that is no longer in production is not a wise thing?

Do you think people are wrong if they still cheer cars like Zen,Baleno,OHC-Vtec,Ikon 1.6,etc.?

[drsnt]

i feel that this topic is unnecessary getting heated...well infact very few or should i say very very few of our members are really the target customer for nano or 800, most of us arguing are the ones who have capacity to buy multiple cars at home...........we are not the ones who have their dreams to buy a car one day just to ferry our family...a person earning less than 10-15k a month...think difference of 60k will make his half yearly salary..for highway travel he will go by public transport unless he has some other reasons..he will think twice to fill 10 liters of petrol in his car just for fun driving....i strongly believe that difference of 60K in base model price of nano and 800 seals the deal in nano's favor unless media freazy or in reality it's reliability issues makes it a white elephant

PS I have personally driven nano extensively as my cousin owns it.....nano is a dream maker even my compounder is planning to buy it it never happened with 800 when it was launched that NANO made a common man dreaming to buy a car

Again my vote for nano as target group for nano base model will not be the the going on long drives every 2nd day or regularly on highways, he will still use his 2 wheeler when he needs to travel singularly...car for him will be luxury not a play toy


On a lighter note........one of my neighbors got a nano CX and it's is chauffeur driven

[muni]

Another Nano Vs M800 thread with all the fanfare.

As for me I believe it is time to move on from M800. Nothing will resurrect it as it has done its job pretty well. Lets wait and see whether Nano or Alto or some other car will rule the roost for the next 10 years. I would pick Spark if it were based on merrit at this point in time

The directionless arguments apparently to prove M800 is better or Nano is better will only end up in ego massages.

Nano has a lot of promise and I am optimistic about its success.

[airbender]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

I do not seem to have a very good memory related to trivial issues but if I remember correctly all my initial posts in the thread you have mentioned were based on facts provided by both the Manufacturers and ACI.

I talked about ARAI figures for FE, acceleration figures from ACI, and power figures from the manufacturers. And its a Fact, mind you, not an assumption that Dzire has marginally better FE and acceleration compared to Manza. My later posts regarding cramped footwell and other minor niggles was after I test drove the car and that too I had mentioned clearly.

My only assumption was regarding the A.S.S. of TATA not being as good as Maruti's and that may or may not be true depending on the location.


Why are you bent upon getting personal? How would you feel if I say you look to be taking specific pride in being dismissive about Maruti and supportive of TATA in every TATA Vs. Maruti thread?

Kindly explain what makes you feel so. Also, show me one post of mine on this thread which does not have FACTS about both the cars. Also, the only assumption I have made are not baseless. (Ex- People opting for roof-racks for lack of boot in Nano.)

If you don't have anything left in support of Nano atleast spare the fellow bhpians of statements like "content in your posts is asumed", its sounds like a more polite wayof saying "your posts are false".

I would not have posted like that if not for these words from you:

Am not against TATA. Am neither biased towards Maruti. There are a couple of threads started by me where I have criticized Maruti when I should. If you still have doubts, let me know, I'll send the link and that should put to rest any doubts you might have of me being biased towards Maruti.

This is what you have posted on the Tata Indigo Manza details thread:

TATAs had always been spacious and that has been there selling point. No other car gets you more sheet metal for your hard earned money than the Tatas. But then, that's about it. All TATA cars have poor ergonomics and apart from all that space the interiors are nothing to write home about.
Sure, they look neat but that visual appeal is all lost by the time the car clocks anything above 25K kms. Tell me, how many of us here have ever come across a decent looking 3 year old indica/indigo?
So, who'll buy this new sedan?
em....not any of us bhpian I suppose. Maybe like all other TATAs it will make a good taxi, and I can see some boring government officials with gray hair happily being chauffeur driven in this boring sedan, and with all that space and the status of having a 'badi gaadi' (sedan) will make them all the more glad.

This was posted on 15th October. Manza was launched on 14th. I am not saying Manza is a great car. But how can you write it off even before you can test drive it(did you even see it). In one thread you say you are unbaised(calling Nano not a proper car is not unbaised for me) and in other you post like above. Don't you think you contradict yourself. You said none of the bhpians will buy this car. May be you are blind to all the ownership reports on the forum.

You can call me tata supporter if you want but I am not a maruti hater. I was never dismissive about maruti. I respect maruti for what it is. It's the atitude of some people who say maruti/any other automaker is the best no matter what that gets me to start typing. In the world perspective both maruti/tata are cheap vehicles. But you term Manza's as boring even without looking at them. There are so many vehicles in india which can only sell in India(or may be pakistan). But some people hold the torch for these vehicles as if they are world beaters.

THe only reason I posted that was to expose your real character.

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

Maybe, but why are you not concentrating on present scenario?
Why always "800 will be discontinued"/"better Nano will be launched" etc.?

I can quote atleast a handlful of posts where you have written about "you can't buy 800 " (even when its on sale all over the country save for 13 cities) , " TATA will launch a better Nano" and stuffs. Isn't all these 'assuming'?

This thread was started when both Nano and M800 were avialable in the country. You re-activated the thread very recently. How many people who voted for M800 stay out of the 13 cities. If there is anyone who stays in those cities and voted for M800 recently that doesnot provide us with the true picture. That may be the reason why polls differ from reality here. When you know M800 is phased out from the market with more than majority of sales and will be phased out completely is it wise to even compare with it. If you want to have a real poll restrict it to the right participants. One seems to assume Nano is not reliable. That's why I say Nano will have future modifications.

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

By that logic, and I wasn't in mood to bring this in between but still, Dzire sells far more than Indigo Manza (and a bit more than all indigos together).

Its a fact and you may consult any data and correct me if am wrong.

SO, you accept that Dzire is better than Manza because its demand in market is more? Are you ready to withdraw your comments regarding manza being a better product that you made in that thread?

Market determines who wins/loses. Manza in my opinion is a better product. But maruti has strenths in other areas. Market has accepted the overall all strengths of Maruti Dzire. I have never said Dzire is a bad car. I only do not like the boot. I have never said any Maruti is a bad car in the indian perspective. There will be some who may like Dzire's boot or are willing to compromise it for something else they like in the car and will probably but it. Same thing happens to Nano segment buyers. One may not bother about not having a boot or 60K is more important to him than a boot. Every customer is unique. M800 Vs Nano is like comparing between chetak and a modern day Honda scooter. It's just a apples to oranges.


On a lighter note, can you shorten your posts. It takes so much time to read and reply.

[Grafin]

Originally Posted by muni

.

Nano has a lot of promise and I am optimistic about its success.

Originally Posted by drsnt

Again my vote for nano as target group for nano base model will not be the the going on long drives every 2nd day or regularly on highways, he will still use his 2 wheeler when he needs to travel singularly...car for him will be luxury not a play toy

Cannot agree with you more gentlemen.

Hope the people having the open fist fights here understand the same.

Originally Posted by airbender

Every customer is unique. M800 Vs Nano is like comparing between chetak and a modern day Honda scooter. It's just a apples to oranges.

Spot on there.

The Nano will take some time to sink into the mind of the average Indian who is used to seeing the M800 on a daily basis for the last 25yrs or so.

So patience is the key here and wait for the market result to enlighten the people critical of it's(Nano's) capability and success.

[airbender]

Originally Posted by longhorn

The Indian Govt has sold out most of its share in MSIL. SMC is currently the single largest shareholder in MSIL. The Nano is a good product on its own right, but it is not a worthy successor/replacement to the M800 in its current form. I don't think Maruti is currently getting any special treatment from the Indian govt. The only preferential treatment they got was to cut down the red tape on the insistence of the then PM of India.

The other red tape was import duty for vehicles manufactured abroad. This stands true even today and have benefiited all local manufacturers and not only Maruti.

It surprises me to what lengths we go to support our beloved brands. The indian government gave the market to only one player that is Maruti. None of the other players can get access to our market at that time. Forget the global players even the indian companies(any industry) were not allowed to start in those days. Only companies which were allowed to operate were PSU's which were no match to a global player. All exceptions were made to one company, Maruti. By the time competition came maruti spread across the country having more than 80% market share. Had honda's, toyota's, Gm's, Ford's were also given access to the market would the scenario not be different today. I am bashing the Indian Government here.

[drsnt]

Originally Posted by airbender

It surprises me to what lengths we go to support our beloved brands. The indian government gave the market to only one player that is Maruti. None of the other players can get access to our market at that time. Forget the global players even the indian companies(any industry) were not allowed to start in those days. Only companies which were allowed to operate were PSU's which were no match to a global player. All exceptions were made to one company, Maruti. By the time competition came maruti spread across the country having more than 80% market share. Had honda's, toyota's, Gm's, Ford's were also given access to the market would the scenario not be different today. I am bashing the Indian Government here.

fully agreed not just in auto sector but in every sector red tapism licence raj of the government led to stagnation and monopoly. also agree that if market would have been open then maruti might not had been what it's today, had toyota, honda, nissan and others auto majors entered simultaneously in india i seriously doubt if maruti would be the same success story.

just out of curiosity where does suzuki stand in global sales?

[blue_pulsar]

Just out of curiosity, whats so "modern" about the nano apart from its looks, when you compare it to the M800?

I'm taking a neutral stand here. Please don't think I'm biased towards either of them. Lets discuss with an open mind.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by blue_pulsar

Just out of curiosity, whats so "modern" about the nano apart from its looks, when you compare it to the M800?

I'm taking a neutral stand here. Please don't think I'm biased towards either of them. Lets discuss with an open mind.

Perfectly valid question. There are many places where the Nano challenges conventionalism, and at the outset let me clarify that I consider those innovations to be modern (trying to draw a parallel between modern and unconventional)

- It has a special frame, a mix of a monocoque and a ladder chassis in the conventional sense. For this precise reason, a Nano convertible, if it ever came (I don't think it will) wouldn't need any body-shell reinforcements.

- It uses certain adhesives for bonding rather than welding. This is a fairly unconventional process.

- Crash worthiness is better than the 800. This borders on speculation, but based on crash norms that are currently in vogue, and the autocar UK crash test, I think the Nano does well.

- Fuel efficiency and pollution levels are better than the 800.

Note how I haven't cited use of 3 wheel bolts etc. in this list as those are purely cost driven exercises (each one of the above and not strictly in that category)