[sanagg1]

Originally Posted by blue_pulsar

Just out of curiosity, whats so "modern" about the nano apart from its looks, when you compare it to the M800?

I'm taking a neutral stand here. Please don't think I'm biased towards either of them. Lets discuss with an open mind.

For starter
Nano is launched about 25 years later. Nearly one generation gap in terms of human and possibly three generation gap in case of cars.

cheers

[ramzsys]

Once the DICOR(or whatever it is) Nano is in the market, then there will be no competition. Peak mileage of 30 kmpl or so will turn the heads of those who discredited this potential Indian folks wagon.

[longhorn]

Originally Posted by airbender

It surprises me to what lengths we go to support our beloved brands. The indian government gave the market to only one player that is Maruti. None of the other players can get access to our market at that time. Forget the global players even the indian companies(any industry) were not allowed to start in those days. Only companies which were allowed to operate were PSU's which were no match to a global player. All exceptions were made to one company, Maruti. By the time competition came maruti spread across the country having more than 80% market share. Had honda's, toyota's, Gm's, Ford's were also given access to the market would the scenario not be different today. I am bashing the Indian Government here.

I believe you forgot that the Ambassador (modified Morris Oxford), Premier Padmini (an outdated Fiat) were on sale much much before Maruti came into the picture. AFAIK, Standard 2000 (Rover product) entered the market after Maruti came into the picture. In fact the Indian govt had actually considered some other manufacturer (Citroen if I am not wrong)and Suzuki came in the fray much later. So its wrong to say that the Indian govt gave access only to Maruti. I agree that Maruti got the first mover advantage. But that's mainly because they(Suzuki) were willing to enter the Indian market and set up base here when most manufacturers worldwide thought it was not worthwhile doing so. Even after the economy was opened up, just see how many years Toyota and Honda took to enter the Indian market. Take a count the number of products they have on offer and out of that how many are manufactured locally.

[vc.vinay]

NANO an illusion on papers backed by baseless claims from TATA, Maruti 800 a reality that changed the indian automotive seen

[supremeBaleno]

I think we can discuss this without getting personal. For most of us on this thread (and forum), neither of these cars are interesting enough to be in our stable. So why so serious ?

Originally Posted by airbender

There are so many vehicles in india which can only sell in India(or may be pakistan). But some people hold the torch for these vehicles as if they are world beaters.

Just because some vehicles sell only in India, does this make them bad ? Strange logic. In the US, an M800 or Alto or Nano or Spark or Santro or Indica or hell even a Safari would be out of place due to the roads, speeds, safety considerations etc. But does that mean we should also chuck these vehicles out ? Hey, they do perfectly fine for us and we really dont need to look at the US as a guideline for what vehicle to keep or chuck.

Please look at a vehicle on its individual merits and whether it meets the requirements of the market it targets, not on where it sells or in comparison to the vehicles available at your location.

Originally Posted by airbender

M800 Vs Nano is like comparing between chetak and a modern day Honda scooter. It's just a apples to oranges.

I don't know if you had a Chetak and a Honda and did a comparo. I did - we had a 1972 Bajaj-150 with us till 1995 when I bought my HH CD100. There was just no comparison - more like apples and jackfruit.

But to say that M800 and Nano are like a Chetak and Honda is either ignorance or brand-worship. A couple of pages ago, I compared both these cars - I did not really see the kind of difference you project. Inspite of being ahead (in years, nothing else) of the M800 by 25 years, there is nothing even remotely cutting-edge in the Nano over the M800, other than space. Forget other params, if only the Nano had atleast 50% more FE than the M800, you could say that Nano was state-of-the-art and worthy of being the M800 replacement.

Originally Posted by airbender

The indian government gave the market to only one player that is Maruti. None of the other players can get access to our market at that time. Forget the global players even the indian companies(any industry) were not allowed to start in those days.

Boss, either you are in the past (Govt subsidy for MUL) or in the future (Nano's future version will do this or that). Can we for a moment talk in the present? No one denies that Govt policy was skewed towards MUL initially, but it has been a fair market for a decade and more now. Hyundai has thrived, Honda is doing good, GM is catching up, Tata themselves are not doing bad - so what relevance is this subsidy thing today ?

Originally Posted by Amartya

- It has a special frame, a mix of a monocoque and a ladder chassis in the conventional sense..

I dont know much about body-frame design. But to say that this would help develop a convertible many years from now - is it really a point in favour ?

Originally Posted by Amartya

- It uses certain adhesives for bonding rather than welding. This is a fairly unconventional process..

Unconvetional, yes. But is using adhesives better than welding? Again no expert here, but to me it looks like welding is a better, safer and more lasting option.

Originally Posted by Amartya

- Crash worthiness is better than the 800. This borders on speculation, but based on crash norms that are currently in vogue, and the autocar UK crash test, I think the Nano does well..

You agree it is speculation and we already discussed this - we dont get a Nano here that is similar to the one that was tested. Then what is the whole point about crash worthiness ?

Originally Posted by Amartya

- Fuel efficiency and pollution levels are better than the 800.

Assumptions again. Have quoted data from actual Nano user and there is nothing in it to suggest improvement over M800.

Originally Posted by sanagg1

For starters, Nano is launched about 25 years later. Nearly one generation gap in terms of human and possibly three generation gap in case of cars.

Yeah, that is a big point in Nano's favour. That it happened to be launched 25 years later. Great. So how does this help the consumer in any way ?

Originally Posted by ramzsys

Once the DICOR(or whatever it is) Nano is in the market, then there will be no competition. Peak mileage of 30 kmpl or so will turn the heads of those who discredited this potential Indian folks wagon.

I dont doubt that a diesel Nano will get lots of buyers. But is that something in favour of the car ? Its more about our obsession with cheap fuel. On the same lines, imagine what would happen if an MJD-engine is cut into 2 and plonked into the M800 ? Not just the Nano, even Alto would be history.

Originally Posted by vc.vinay

NANO an illusion on papers backed by baseless claims from TATA, Maruti 800 a reality that changed the indian automotive seen

I won't say it is an illusion. It is very much a reality, just that the final product does not come with the main thing that was touted as its USP - low cost. And that is not only a disappointment, but if done by any other manufacturer, would have been called as cheating / going-back-on-one's-word.

[ottocycle]

NANO an illusion on papers backed by baseless claims from TATA, Maruti 800 a reality that changed the indian automotive seen

Nice punchy sentence. But would have worked better about two years ago. At times, where all other manufactures were laughing on Tata.

But now they are quiet. They have realized that Nano is no longer some baseless claim on paper. It's a reality which is haunting them every day and they are not able to think of a worthy competitor to it.

[Grafin]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Unconventional, yes. But is using adhesives better than welding? Again no expert here, but to me it looks like welding is a better, safer and more lasting option.

Yes adhesives are replacing welds nowadays and even trucks are being built using adhesives. Having studied the subject in engineering, i can assure you some adhesives provide stronger bonds than welds and rivets. Its your ignorance in the subject that makes you question the strength.


Yeah, that is a big point in Nano's favour. That it happened to be launched 25 years later. Great. So how does this help the consumer in any way ?

The customer has an option of choosing a Nano over a car hes been seeing on a regular basis for the past 25yrs or so. Gives him an extra option.

Originally Posted by longhorn

In fact the Indian govt had actually considered some other manufacturer (Citroen if I am not wrong)and Suzuki came in the fray much later.

It was VW who were initially considered but Suzuki ended up sealing the deal.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by Grafin

Yes adhesives are replacing welds nowadays and even trucks are being built using adhesives. Having studied the subject in engineering, i can assure you some adhesives provide stronger bonds than welds and rivets. Its your ignorance in the subject that makes you question the strength..

What subject was it in Engg. ? An elective or standard ?

Originally Posted by Grafin

Gives him an extra option.

An extra option it surely gives. And different looks too.

[Grafin]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

What subject was it in Engg. ? An elective or standard ?

It was in ManPro 2 and 3.It was a compulsory subject for me.

I think Automobile Engg had it as an optional one.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

...My vote goes to the NANO. I drive a 1997 M-800 clocked 2.45 lac kms even today as my daily drive, but one simple drive in my friends Nano changed it all. The NANO is much better in terms of comfort, space and driveablility when compared to the cramped and bouncy M-800......

Who is 'that' friend?

I am glad to be of some help... hope you & brother & co-sis had fun...

[Rahulkool]

I have also driven Nano few times, and got to drive a M800 after long time. I will say M800 was much more comfortable driving position. Nano feels more spacious but i don't find M800 crammed. Ride on 800 is more balanced and planted. 25 years old M800 engine feels much much better in terms of refinement.

If only nano was 30-40k cheaper than its current price then it would have be excellent VFM. On everything you can see and feel its cheaper than M800 but still doesn't cost much less.

Just my opinion.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by Rahulkool

If only nano was 30-40k cheaper than its current price then it would have be excellent VFM. On everything you can see and feel its cheaper than M800 but still doesn't cost much less.

Just my opinion.

Also goes to show that how unrealistic people can be, 30-40K less than the current price, have you ever looked at the price of an Auto-rickshaw?

[Rahulkool]

^^ as a matter of the fact, i don't know the price of auto rickshaw and neither the thread says nano vs auto riskshaw. But when compared to M800 the nano feel cheaper, thats why the comment about pricing.

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by Rahulkool

^^ as a matter of the fact, i don't know the price of auto rickshaw and neither the thread says nano vs auto riskshaw. But when compared to M800 the nano feel cheaper, thats why the comment about pricing.

Well, it was your statement "If only nano was 30-40k cheaper than its current price then it would have be excellent VFM" that prompted my reply.

Just to get a perspective on how good value for money the Nano is, maybe you should look up the price of an auto-rickshaw, irrespective of the title of this thread.

[Grafin]

Originally Posted by Rahulkool

I have also driven Nano few times, and got to drive a M800 after long time. I will say M800 was much more comfortable driving position. Nano feels more spacious but i don't find M800 crammed. Ride on 800 is more balanced and planted. 25 years old M800 engine feels much much better in terms of refinement.

If only nano was 30-40k cheaper than its current price then it would have be excellent VFM. On everything you can see and feel its cheaper than M800 but still doesn't cost much less.

Just my opinion.

Your being too unrealistic mate.

The price difference between the base models itself is around 60 grand.

If it had to be 30-30k cheaper, all you'd get is a chassis, engine, and 4 wheels.

The driving position is a little high compared to the Palio i drive but never did i feel it was uncomfortable and there isn't much to differentiate between the two.