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View Poll Results: Which cheapest car is your choice? | |||
Maruti 800 DX | 162 | 45.51% | |
Tata Nano LX | 194 | 54.49% | |
Voters: 356. You may not vote on this poll |
Search this Thread | 88,261 views |
16th June 2010, 20:14 | #196 |
Senior - BHPian | @Amartya, if the Nano was launched without any price-promise, you could call it unrealistic when people expect it to cost less than what it does. But the Nano was to be a 1-lakh car. So, is it unrealistic to expect it to be in the whereabouts of 1lakh ? And is it wrong to be disappointed when it ends up costing more than 2 times the promised price ? I dont know what an auto-rick costs, and it does not really matter here unless the Nano was planned as an alternative to the rick. And if you know that a car cant be made at the price of a rick, why go about proclaiming that we will make a 1-lakh car ? Here was how I expected it to be (based on the price-promise) : Nano base version : Ex-showroom cost - 1 lakh // As promised. Insurance + taxes + VAT etc - 25K OTR price : 1.25 lakhs Nano mid trim : Ex-showroom cost - 1.15 lakhs // Some bells & whistles added. Insurance + taxes + VAT etc - 30K OTR price : 1.45 lakhs Nano top trim : Ex-showroom cost - 1.30 lakhs // Some more bells & whistles added. Insurance + taxes + VAT etc - 35K OTR price : 1.65 lakhs Now that would have been a reasonable alternative to the M800, for the common man. The Nano with its current pricing is only going to end up in the garage of those that already have 1 or more 'proper' cars, with the Nano being a fun addition. The biker-family-of-4 can continue on their Platinas and Dawns. Last edited by supremeBaleno : 16th June 2010 at 20:21. |
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16th June 2010, 20:30 | #197 |
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| Dear Baleno, Its funny to note how you calculate your OTR price, but it also goes to show that your knowledge of how cars are taxed is negligible. No worries, an ex factory bears taxes on it before becoming and ex showroom car and the corresponding price. Meaning this will vary from state to state, depending of various factors least of which will be negligible things like trasportation costs, a car made in Gujrat will cost less to trasport to a local showroom than compared to a southern state. Over the e x showroom price again you have things like local road taxes etc.. So the only time a cars price remains stable is when it leaves the factory, and the fact is despite factors like steel prices shooting up, banks doubling interest rates, political issues, building, dismantling and rebuilding the factory from one corner of India to the other, it is still 1 lac for the base model. Albeit Tata is not in this trade for charity, but they could have easily cried out a million excuses why they could not stick to the price, but they did not. Each individuals interpretation of this price is different, as I can see, but claiming that they did not make a 1 lac car is baseless. |
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16th June 2010, 21:10 | #198 | |||
BHPian Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: miami. fl
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Pressure started mounting on Indira and Sanjay Gandhi to share the details of the progress on the Maruti Project. Since country's resources were made available by mother to her son's pet project. A delegation of Indian technocrats was assigned to hunt a [COLOR=#0645ad]collaborator[/COLOR] for the project. Initial rounds of discussion were held with the giants of the [COLOR=#0645ad]automobile[/COLOR] industry in [COLOR=#0645ad]Japan[/COLOR] including [COLOR=#0645ad]Toyota[/COLOR], [COLOR=#0645ad]Nissan[/COLOR] and [COLOR=#0645ad]Honda[/COLOR]. [COLOR=#0645ad]Suzuki[/COLOR] Motor Corporation was at that time a small player in the four wheeler automobile sector and had major share in the two wheeler segment. Suzuki's bid was considered negligible. Suzuki in return received a lot of help from the government in such matters as import clearances for manufacturing equipment (against the wishes of the Indian machine tool industry then and its own socialistic ideology), land purchase at government prices for setting up the factory [COLOR=#0645ad]Gurgaon[/COLOR] and reduced or removal of excise tariffs. This helped Suzuki conscientiously nurse Maruti Suzuki through its infancy to become one of its flagship ventures. Apart from the companies above other companies like VK, Ford, Citreon wanted to enter india. But government did not allow them the same benefits. As mentioned above, Suzuki(only suzuki) was allowed to import machinery without any custom duty. There is so much info on the web on this. All these happened when indians cannot themselves start a company. I do not believe you do not know these facts. Suzuki was neither among the best then nor now. Why did the government choose them? Corruption any one. Quote:
Last edited by airbender : 16th June 2010 at 21:12. | |||
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16th June 2010, 22:18 | #199 | |||||||
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An Bajaj RE 2s costs 80K(I may be wrong as I never shoped for one, correct me if I am) before taxes. Nano gives you a hard top roof, extra wheel, much more powerful engine, robust body, better seats/seatbelts(Ok I will stop here, that's already too much to the list) for just 20K. How can you call it overpriced. I actually call it under priced. Comparing M800 prices with that of Nano is again apples to jack fruit compo if you want to do it fairly. What was the salary of an engineer when M800 was designed? What was the construction cost when those plants were built? Add to that those taxes Maruti did not pay to that Government for importing the equipment. They are a fraction of what it costs right now. Thanks to what happened in 1982, when a M800 is sold it pinches holes in every taxpayers pockets. India has seen so much inflation, prices of almost everything has gone up. In most cases they have multiplied. But for an entry level car, they have gone down. Yet you complain. OT: At the end of the day, Tata wants to make money from what they are doing. Can't find fault with that as they are a business house. But they also are doing a lot of charity. Money Tata motors made from passenger market is a fraction of what maruti made from here. Can any one tell me what charity Maruti did in India. | |||||||
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17th June 2010, 10:57 | #200 | |
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Very well said.M800 was a prduct that was designed in 80's and they will not be able to bring out a new design for the price that TATA is offering nano (a truth even SUZUKI has acknowledged). Also I had read about the saftey aspects on a M 800 and on Tata nano and there was a mention about tata nano passing the crash test since it had an Airbag.The truth is arbag does not determine if the car is safer or not. The structure of the car , the way its desgned, The crumple zones and a lot of other factors decide if the car is safe and a tata nano is much safer than a m800 simply because tata nano is a car that is built with the current saftey regulations in mind. | |
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17th June 2010, 11:28 | #201 | |
Senior - BHPian | Quote:
While you have brought up the subject, you should have also mentioned what the Tatas got for setting up their plant in Gujarat. While Suzuki got land at govt rates, the Gujarat govt acquired land and provided it to them at below market rates ie they got land at subsidised rates. Not the mention the tax breaks the govt has provided to the Nano plant. So let's keep a level playing field here. The TN govt is a very industry friendly one. If they selected Gujarat over and above TN, one can only imagine the benefits they would have received. PS: I am not against Gujarat or for TN. Just mentioning the facts here. I don't come from either of these states. Last edited by longhorn : 17th June 2010 at 11:47. | |
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17th June 2010, 11:53 | #202 | ||
Senior - BHPian | Quote:
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If an M 800 is as crash worthy as a Nano without airbags (as both cars are sold without airbags here) the Nano's brand new design is only as good as the 30 year old M 800 at least as far as India is concerned. No use of going into ifs when the ifs are not available. For those who are not aware, the M 800 comes with crumple zones in the bonnet area and side impact protection beams. Last edited by longhorn : 17th June 2010 at 11:58. | ||
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17th June 2010, 12:20 | #203 | |
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What I was trying to mention if that if you plonk an airbag into the current maruti (like tat have done with nano) then that car will never get a 4 start rating that TATA has recieved.I have seen some M800 in Europe (with a different name though) and the last one that was released in europe was somewhere in 90's the reason being the body shell of M800 was not suited for new safety regulations that was introduced in eurpoe in late 90's.Suzuki had to then bring a new alto in europe due to this.But in india they still use the old shell.Yes it has crumple zones but the basic structure is still the same. Also to make things more clear .. The latest Alto from Suzuki (astar) recievd only a 3 start rating where as the nano recievd 4 star. The passanger and pedestran saftey rating was very high on tata nano ( if I remember thsi correctly near to 80%) compared to a mere 45 to 55 % on astar. Astar whcih is about 3.80 INR less safer than tata nano 1.80 INR. How can we expect 2nd gen alto (m800) to be as safe as a nano? Last edited by praveen_n : 17th June 2010 at 12:40. | |
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17th June 2010, 12:48 | #205 | ||||||
Senior - BHPian | Quote:
See, the way I put that calculation is how it would be if I were to buy a car. The invoice I get here shows an ex-showroom price, on which VAT @4% or so is added. Then there is roadtax (10% in TN today) + regn charges (few hundreds for Nano/M800) and also insurance (3.5% or so). Plus some miscellaneous stuff like handling etc. So, when Tata says the car will cost 1lakh, I take that as ex-showroom cost and work from there. VAT would be 5K max. Tax would be 10K. Insurance would be 4K. Comes to 19K. Add another 6K to cover handling, regn charges & even transportation to dealer if you want and we still are at 25K. Do you still think I am too off with my calculation ? Also, when I go to buy a car (Tata or Maruti or MB), I don't really know or even care if their factory was dismantled or whether steel prices shot up or banks increased the interest or they do charity. These are all least of my concerns. I go by the ex-showroom price - as simple as that. Quote:
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I did not really want to have the thread go OT - hence desisted from posting that. While we can discuss for ages as to whether glue is good or better than weld/rivets, we atleast know for a fact that all the cars running on our roads sans glue are anyway not falling apart - good enough for me. Quote:
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Why do you have to bring in irrelevant things into a discussion involving comparison of 2 cars ? Does this mean that the car in question does not have strengths of its own and needs to lean on charity done by Tata ? Please focus on the car - not on the US or developed countries, what they drive there or charity or the 80s story. If you want to discuss charity done by car-cos, please create a separate thread. | ||||||
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17th June 2010, 13:07 | #206 | ||||
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17th June 2010, 13:23 | #207 |
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Yes, they are the easiest brand to diss, and you haven't exactly refrained from doing so. Anyway, maybe you thought that I was trivializing a serious discussion, in that case, apologies. |
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17th June 2010, 13:29 | #208 | ||
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I was mentioning Airbag is NOT the only criteria for safty.The idea of saying tata passed the test because it had an airbag is wrong.Airbag is one of the factors but there are other factors also. Quote:
No one is saying about it.All I am trying to mention is that you will a bit more safer in a nano than 800. That being said no vehcile can guarantee that you live in case of a serious accident.You can only mention about your chances of survival . | ||
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17th June 2010, 13:50 | #209 | |
Senior - BHPian | Quote:
Last edited by longhorn : 17th June 2010 at 13:52. | |
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17th June 2010, 14:03 | #210 | |
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