[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by shamanth

I just want to comment on one observation. The sound of Nano is like Auto Rickshaw where as 800 sounds like a Car.

Yep. It sounds like a refined TATA Ace.

If it's gonna be ONLY city driving, then maybe the Nano. Else, it's the good old 800 for me.

[longhorn]

Originally Posted by Grafin

@longhorn

Suzuki was treated like a guest in India and given a lot a of perks. One glance at Wikipedia and everything becomes clear about their easy passage into India, free import of machinery and land acquirement.

How much ever Tata was helped by the Gujrat Govt, it wouldn't have matched up to the treatment Suzuki was given back in the days.

Why does everyone seem to be conveniently forgetting the fact that the Govt of India held a controlling stake in that company at the time of inception. I believe it was 51-49(GOI:Suzuki).

The govt had every right to do what it deemed fit in those days. I don't think the Govt paid hard cash for its entire 51% share. The Govt could have contributed in cash or in kind. So its unfair to balme Maruti saying that they got free land. That free land(owned by the Govt) could have been part of its contribution to the Govt's share of 51%.

I don't think the Gujarat govt got even 0.0001 % share in the Nano plant. So what happened to the level playing field.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by Amartya

What I actually find quite fascinating the the fact that adhesives have come a long way, and if Grafin can kindly share some data where there is a comparison of welded joints and adhesive based joints, it'll be a great learning experience for the whole forum.

Amartya, I need a favor from you and all other guys here. Can you tell me which parts in a nano are adhesive'd toghether? I am not able to find that detail here... please. Thx in adv.

[Grafin]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

What reckless statement did anyone make here ? Please enlighten us.

Could have taken that up, but did not want to derail a serious discussion. So, please remove that log from your eyes before attempting to remove the splinter from other's eyes.

Must be some intentional feature, which aids driveability or FE or maybe safety, given that the Nano is the last word in cutting-edge automotive technology.

I started posting on this thread after seeing your posts. You repeatedly bash, mock and refuse to accept some of the features of the Nano while consistently pointing out its drawbacks which is evident even in this reply.

I finally agree to one thing you say.
I called you a bigot for not realizing the potential of metal adhesives, so that is not relevant here.

Timber and splinter?
Id rather stick to the original proverb and the usage of sand and dust.

Lets hope this ends here because we are way off topic and id rather wish we do some justice to the topic at hand.

@longhorn

Considering the fact that Tata is an Indian company with lots of capital at their disposal, do they need the Gujarat Govt as a partner?
I feel the Govt has a lot to gain as the can collect tax(later at least), provide employment and sell electricity.
These are just some of the points i can come up and im sure there is a lot more in it than meets the eye.

There can never be a level playing field like you've mentioned as MS have a head start of about 27 years or so with no competition.

[Grafin]

Originally Posted by Amartya

What I actually find quite fascinating the the fact that adhesives have come a long way, and if Grafin can kindly share some data where there is a comparison of welded joints and adhesive based joints, it'll be a great learning experience for the whole forum.

Yes it has. I had to learn about the same in Engineering. Il post a few links.

Metal Bonding Adhesive Replaces Rivets and Spot Welds — Welcome to ChemWeb

http://www.ascouncil.org/news/enduse...mall-ATE06.pdf

iLoctite.com Community ? replacing welding and riveting with Loctite adhesives | iLoctite community blog

[longhorn]

Originally Posted by Grafin

@longhorn

Considering the fact that Tata is an Indian company with lots of capital at their disposal, do they need the Gujarat Govt as a partner?
I feel the Govt has a lot to gain as the can collect tax(later at least), provide employment and sell electricity.
These are just some of the points i can come up and im sure there is a lot more in it than meets the eye.

There can never be a level playing field like you've mentioned as MS have a head start of about 27 years or so with no competition.

Its not a question of whether the Tata need the govt to have a share in their plant. They would be much better off without it. Ditto for Suzuki, but the govt (license raj era) just would not permit that. So the Tatas have an advantage which Suzuki did not get. Similarly, we cannot say that Maruti got land for free (refer my previous post) as is being made out.

Tata Motors, AFAIK, is not a foreign company, so what stopped them from attempting the Nano 27 years back? They were very much into CV manufacturing even before Maruti started setting up their plant.

[Grafin]

Originally Posted by longhorn

Tata Motors, AFAIK, is not a foreign company, so what stopped them from attempting the Nano 27 years back? They were very much into CV manufacturing even before Maruti started setting up their plant.

Interesting question you brought up right now.

IIRC, Tata started building cars in 1991 with the Sierra.

So they could've.

Anyways thanks for the info.

[hemanth.anand]

Having Driven Both Nano and 800 (not just a test drive),
I would vote for 800 just because for its completeness as a car.

M800 is more worth for its money with no compromises as such.
Feel sad that 800 won't be available soon.

Nevetheless I'm taking away nothing from the Nano for it has some good innovations and which may change the approach towards car making in future.

[Shreyans]

Originally Posted by Grafin

You wont find it if you check for it in the Fevicol website.

I can refer you a book in case you still dont find it online.

Even engine flywheels applications and motor assemblies are being dealt by metal adhesives these days.

It would be rather bigoted if you dont accept new age processes to be better than age old ones.

The individual pieces of the Worli-Bandra sealink are glued together too and these types of glues are used world over.

[Grafin]

Originally Posted by hemanth.anand

I would vote for 800 just because for its completeness as a car.

Nevetheless I'm taking away nothing from the Nano for it has some good innovations and which may change the approach towards car making in future.

Completeness as in?

Where do you think it is incomplete compared to the M800?

[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by Grafin

Completeness as in?

Where do you think it is incomplete compared to the M800?

Oh come on.

For one, Can you take the Nano to the expressway? (Now, please don't talk about Yeti and NC 's trip, that's an exception) I would feel more comfortable in the 800 than the Nano, doing triple digit speeds. The Nano is terribly unstable, when compared to the 800, due to it's shorter wheelbase and height.

Another thing, there is no glove-box, the rear bench is uncomfortable. Add to it, the not-so-easily accessible boot.

[Grafin]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

For one, Can you take the Nano to the expressway? (Now, please don't talk about Yeti and NC 's trip, that's an exception) I would feel more comfortable in the 800 than the Nano, doing triple digit speeds.

Another thing, there is no glove-box, the rear bench is uncomfortable. Add to it, the not-so-easily accessible boot.

Well not the person i expected to answer, but will do.

Well i haven't been that comfortable doing triple digit speeds in an M800 myself and haven't seen it do those speeds quite often to be honest.

It is a well established fact that the Nano is a city car and by far it hasn't been proved to be that bad on the highways.

Stick to the speed limit and it would serve the purpose decently.

The lack of glove box and a decent boot is a really a bad disadvantage i admit.

The rear seats dint feel that uncomfortable to me, and if it is, it can be taken care of quite easily without burning a hole in your pocket.
You save around 60K for the base priced Nano compared to the M800, imagine how a fraction of that amount can be spent to right the few wrongs you've mentioned.

[Shreyans]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

Oh come on.

For one, Can you take the Nano to the expressway? (Now, please don't talk about Yeti and NC 's trip, that's an exception) I would feel more comfortable in the 800 than the Nano, doing triple digit speeds. The Nano is terribly unstable, when compared to the 800, due to it's shorter wheelbase and height.

Another thing, there is no glove-box, the rear bench is uncomfortable. Add to it, the not-so-easily accessible boot.

I wouldnt drive the 800 on the expressway either but thats just me . The 800 just feels aged compared to the Nano but what a life it has had , will be hard to get it out of our heads.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by Grafin

You repeatedly bash, mock and refuse to accept some of the features of the Nano while consistently pointing out its drawbacks

This thread is about the 2 cars and I don't think it is wrong to point out pros and cons of either car. I did point out that Nano wins in space, looks of Euro-Nano is better than M800, FE is good etc etc. What do you want me to say ? That Nano is the best ?

And coming to features, the only points I disputed were safety and adhesives. Regarding adhesives, while we could take it as an innovation, that does not take away anything from the conventional way. And unless welded cars are falling apart, what difference does it make to a car-buyer,
as pointed out by Santosh who came to know about this only now, after using the car for a while ?

Regarding safety, you want us to accept that a Nano with airbags that was tested is as safe as the Nano sold here without airbags. We will do that if you agree that the Swifts without airbags sold here (Lxi, VXi, LDi, VDi) are as safe as the Swift rated 4* by Euro-NCAP. Or that the Alto sold here is as safe as the Alto rated 3* by Euro-NCAP.

Also, apparently it is not just the airbags that differ between the crash-tested version and the one here. Check this link out where they say :
"Some changes were made to the test vehicle, such as the addition of a driver airbag as well as strengthened the front longitudinal structure, while adding another structure behind the bumper. All of this increased the weight of the vehicle by 18 kg."

Originally Posted by Grafin

Lets hope this ends here because we are way off topic and id rather wish we do some justice to the topic at hand.

With all your (and airbender's and others) comments on how MSIL had it easy in the 80s and Tata acquiring land etc, you are anyway way off topic. If in doubt, checkout what the OP had to say below. Very simple question. You prefer the Nano or the M800 ? Thats all. He did not ask for the history of MS or Tata.

Originally Posted by *VT*

As the tiny Tata Nano is already here, I just want to know your views on which "Cheapest Car" would you prefer? Is it the evergreen Maruti Suzuki 800 DX(Top End) OR Tata Nano LX(Top end).
My vote definately goes for the Maruti 800 for its more "car like" design unlike van looking nano, its tried and trusted...

The M800 is 25 years old or more. The Nano is the new kid on the block. But what does the Nano have in it to say it is the latest or greatest compared to the oldie.

To take an example from electronics, in the early 80s when M800 came out, we had tall antennas and bulky B&W TVs. These gave way to CableTV & Color TVs and then to MPEG-4 satellite services and Plasma/LCD/LED/3D TVs. So if you compare a TV from that era and the one today, yes the ones available today are miles ahead in terms of features, technology etc.

Comparing the same way, what is there in the Nano of today as compared to the oldie of 25 years ago ? Nothing much except space. Infact, isn't it odd that a new player is lower on reliability, more prone to hazards like fire/smoke etc ? Unless the maker has not addressed the main factors that make a car a car, what is the use of bonding with adhesives or staples ?

[longhorn]

Originally Posted by Grafin

Completeness as in?

Where do you think it is incomplete compared to the M800?

Another reason is the difference in tyre sizes between the front and the rear. I don't know which wise guy thought of that idea, but I believe that is taking cost cutting to a new extent, and more importantly, a compromise on safety which is uncalled for.