Originally Posted by RX135

Sorry! My post was not directed at you but few earlier posts and counter-posts. Probably we posted around same time.

Turning radius is of course important but if someone tells me that is more important than low end torque/driveability or ride, I'll be cease to argue any further

Talking of A/S/S, it is largely location dependent. Fiat A/S/S is considered quite good at least in this side of the country (Far better than Honda, Skoda and even Maruti at times). My friend gets his NHC serviced from Kolhapur than from Pune. Just to give an example!

It would be completely immature to claim that there is nothing better than Fiat (or most other brands for that matter, unless it happens to be BMW :P ). There are several areas where Fiat lacks, of course most notable being A/S/S network, resale, image.

BTW, I am surprised to see an ex-Palio owner deriding a Fiat car (not company/network) very well knowing its virtues. To be very honest, I've not personally come across any so far.

My rant about fiat being the best was not aimed at you. it is just the general tone of the posts in the thread.
People tend to exaggerate greatly, the virtues of a fiat. And even though, these examples are obviously hyperbole, they are not checked by the more sensible Fiat enthusiasts on the forum. OTOH, they seem to be encouraged.

There is a constant denigration of other brands- maruti/honda/skoda. but fiat is untouchable. why?
My swift rattles- I'll be the 1st to admit that.
My verna lacks steering feel-agreed
The endeavour lacks ride comfort-true.
But if I say the new indian fiats are boring- Thats flame bait?

The punto-
Looks like a million rupees. Goes like Ten(not 10 million, just 10)
Rides well
It is an average car. it may even be called VFM.(Not being sarcastic)
But it is definitely not sporty(neither is the ritz)

Like you said- turning radius is not the only factor in city driveability. Low end torque and visibilty are also important. Not many of the other fiat enthusiasts on the forum take a balanced view like that.
The turning radius issue is happily censored.
so much so that- Turning radius actually becomes "least important"

My Palio experience-that is a long story.

[pmbabu]

Originally Posted by tortoiseNhare

(I may be going OT but please bear with me)
If buying a Fiat means throwing practicality out of the window (I suppose without being explicit you meant it)

No man, it wasn't a generic statement covering everyone who purchases FIAT I wrote that statement based on the claims that some of the posters did on this very thread. In fact I have my own team mate who bought the Linea despite many others trying to dissuade him based on the past. But he is a very proud owner and absolutely loves his car, very much like you state - that is how it should be and we in our team are happy for him.

[DCEite]

Originally Posted by RX135

I fail to understand why we bring in A/S/S, sales number, resale and brand image etc when we are discussing merits of cars.

Going by current logic, not a single FIAT or Ford or GM should sell in this country and in any poll, people should never vote for these brands. I find whole rhetoric about A/S/S and "peace of mind" talk useless, when we are comparing 2 cars as a product.

If that is what matters then why compare Ritz and Punto? Just name it as "X car from Maruti Vs. Y car from Fiat". Who cares what cars they are, since all other factors such as A/S/S, resale, image etc. etc are going to remain the same for them?

More often than not, it's the non-Fiat owners who complain about Fiat A/S/S, brand image than its owners (Not to imply that it is the best under the Sun).

I often find that people judge a city car by looking at turning radius, than driveability or ride of a car (especially knowing that most Indian city roads are 'pothole'd).

Just as there are Fiat fanatics on this forum, there are equal/more number of Anti-Fiat fanatics on the forum. End result is that, entire credibility of any discussion is lost on any neutral reader.

Well, a car is not just only about the *car* itself. When someone buys a car, he not only buys the car itself, but the complete package which includes after sales and services and availability of spares. That is, a car or for that matter any vehicle, is a *package*, and not just an enclosure on 4 wheels.

Regarding your second point, its human nature to compare the positives of an object he owns or admires, so thats why we have Punto lovers who want A.S.S., turning radius, bad plastics *not* to be compared but want to emphasize more on the looks, blue n me, ride quality etc. and on the other hand Ritz admirers who don't want ride quality , looks to be compared or given that much importance, as against driveability, practicality, after sales and reliability.

If we are comparing two cars, we have to compare on each and every component of the *package*. And not just (what we feel are) the positives.

[tj123]

Originally Posted by Seeler_Rebeiro

@tj123 -

How many times does a person take U turns? Turning radius is the least important of attributes to declare a car to be a practical street car.

I think I you have not driven in a city called Bangalore. Its just not about taking U turns only , its about negotiating narrow Right angle turns, tight parking I hope every one does that most of the times.

I have driven a Palio for some time and I know what a pain its.Hence quite important for me.

Guys it’s an individual choice which you have to make, lets accept the fact that as every car has its fair share of +ve’s & -ve’s.

[harry10]

@Rippergeo- I Agree with you to an extent.
I will agree Punto does not have the sporty feeling of a Swift Vdi.
I didn't liked the rear leg room as well(maybe am used to of luxury in terms of space in Indigo and Indica).
I didn't liked the plastic quality(i feel my indigo has better plastics,no offence).
I found the interiors just a touch better than swift who i find very boring in this aspect.
However i liked the features, the ride comfort, the solid balanced feel which i don't get in a Swift, i liked the steering(the best i had felt since ages), and Looks in person are damn good. Better than Swift and just equal to an i20 IMO.
Turning radius was not a problem for me(maybe as am used to of driving an Indigo).

I am considering buying this as it fulfills my objective of mileage,comfort,good features,good looks and solid ride. A.S.S was not a big issue in Indigo's case so am hoping for the same.

I had never owned a Fiat so don't treat me like a fiat fan boy. Instead had 3 maruti cars in the past and also a great Amby in the 80's which i still think is like a tank!

As for Ritz had not Test driven so wont comment on anything. But i hate the looks as i see great looking ones around like - Swift,Punto.i10.i20.

[shantyrocks]

everyone has their own preferances.
almost 70% ppl in india will buy a car from their mind.Most of the these 70% are influenced by parents,elders,wives ,friends etc while making their decisions.

I have driven a petra 1.6 for 2 yrs and really miss the comforting thunk of the doors and the solid build quality and the excellent ride quality and handling.
I decided to sell a problem free car just after two yrs of usage just beacause i got a good offer for it from a fiat fan.If i would have let that offer go i would have probably got a lac less than what i did get.
The swift is my present car and it surely is fun to drive and always brings a smile to my face and their A/S/S is also top class.But you can not compare maruti to fiat when it comes to ride quality.The swift literally connects you to the road while going over a rough patch.So does the ritz.

And when it comes to A/S/S, Fiat is definitely improving.Atlest in thane things are definitely better and i see a lot of lineas on road now a days.

[RX135]

Originally Posted by DCEite

If we are comparing two cars, we have to compare on each and every component of the *package*. And not just (what we feel are) the positives.

When certain components of the package (read A/S/S, brand name, resale) are going to be the same for every car model from a particular brand, it becomes meaningless to compare it. That's why I said, one should then launch a poll titled "Maruti Vs. Fiat" than "car A Vs car B". I'll be first to vote for Honda in that case.

An excellent product may not still be bought by many people for these other reasons, which is perfectly understandable. I chose a Fiat (Petra 1.6) over Maruti (Baleno), and I also know that, I am part of miniscule minority to do so. However, Denigrating the product itself is meaningless, in my opinion.

For all talk of poor A/S/S, quality and reliability of Fiats, I have owned near flawless car for last 5 years. I put my money where my mouth is and I talk from experience of owning a Fiat. Though I have been subject of friendly ridicule among friends for choosing an unknown car from Fiat, I'll blindly make exactly same decision if someone puts me inside time machine and takes me back in time. Of course, if someone has had bad experience owning a Fiat, he has equal reason to complain about. But, commenting just based on hearsay should have zero credibility, in my opinion.

I don't think any of the new Fiats are for power hungry people, with their current engine options. They might handle beautifully and ride well, but they beg for more RAW power. However, they aren't THAT slow as they are made out to be, which is obvious from their roll-on figures. If I am in the market, I'll wait for Fiat to come up with more powerful engines. But yet again, looking at current sales, I am member of minority section to think so

Anyway, enough of off topic rant! Let's get back to discussion on Ritz and Punto.

[pmbabu]

Originally Posted by finneyp

Why are you discussing Scorpio on this thread?
BTW, Palio's turning radius is lesser than of Scorpio, here is the data:
Palio - 5.1 m
Scorpio - 5.6 m

Dude, there are quite lot of Bhpians here who bought 'unpractical' Fiat cars! LOL.

Well, I quoted Scorpio as that is another vehicle with bigger turning radius. If you had problem with me bringing in another car, why did you quote Palio here? Different scales for different people?

BTW, Punto's turning radius is 5.3m - you want to compare to that of a sedan to get a fair picture? Well, turning radius of NHC is 4.9m!

On the unpracticality factor, I already clarified that it was about the folks who claimed here that they voting against their head and went with their heart.

And btw, what is "lot" to you? Ritz sold 6K+ last month! Let us hold our thoughts (on sales numbers) for a few more months, shall we?

EDIT:
Go through the following post guys:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post1388775

[shankar.balan]

Consumers are generally more inclined to listen to their hearts rather than heads when buying things, including cars.

Given this fact, I would rather buy a Top end Grande Punto any day of the week than the equivalent variant of the Ritz - the Grande Punto looks great and makes me feel good.

The Ritz has a weird rear end and when I get in and out of the driving seat I bump my head.

I know that Fiat Service is not great, the potential residual value of Punto is not proven yet and that Maruti is zillion times more successful than Fiat and blah blah.

But the Fiat is Italian, it has panache, pizzazz and that Maserati-like front, MAN!

The Ritz, unfortunately is just plain boring, "for the sensible family man" and as conventional as Chapati and Dhal.

Very simple - Heart over Head any day! And why not? Emotional reasoning is so much more from within one's core being, than mere fact driven, analysis driven, mind driven reasoning.

[ntrack]

Punto rules!

The only reason I would otherwise go for a Ritz would be the 'Maruti' factor i.e. decent A** & good resale.
But when i drive a car, I care two hoots about A** & Resale. It should drive, handle, brake well & have adequate power.

I'm emotionally connected to my car so looks are also a BIG factor - every morning when I see it, I must say. "I want to drive this!" & even after 4 yrs. the car should not feel dated. My S10, after 6 yrs, still turns heads.

Anyway, Fiat A** are getting better by the day & as far as resale is concerned, its directly proportional to the car's sales (the more a car sells, the greater is the resale value).

[maxbhp]

Maruti is a great brand in itself.

The brand is so powerful for its service and reliability that the car hardly matters be it Alto/Wagon R/A-star/Swift/dezire/Ritz but with Fiat its not the brand , its the passion thats invoked in the mind of the people who love something Italian , something beautiful and classy something to be a part of your life. In short

Maruti - The faithful son who is every parent's desire.
Fiat - The person whom everyone loves for what he is than what he does

I was a fan of Swift but driving swift never made me special . When I saw Punto for the first time , It was like a father seeing a new born baby boy for the first time. Emotions are just unexplainable in words.

(I think I got a bit too emotional. Let me take get a hankie.)

PS: Whatever is mentioned is just my personal viewpoint.

Proof : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...nde-punto.html

[nurni76]

Originally Posted by RX135

When certain components of the package (read A/S/S, brand name, resale) are going to be the same for every car model from a particular brand, it becomes meaningless to compare it. That's why I said, one should then launch a poll titled "Maruti Vs. Fiat" than "car A Vs car B". I'll be first to vote for Honda in that case.

While I agree that A**, Resale would be generic to a brand, one cannot isolate a brand from a product. If the same Punto car (a car like Punto's looks, handling etc etc) was from Sonalika (just a name for the sake of argument), would you still buy that? I bet you won't. When you are buying Punto, you are buying into the brand Punto from Fiat. Maybe the associations of Fiat with Racing/Handling or the Italian lineage etc plays on your mind and you make an emotional attachment to it. So I personally feel that it would be unfair to just to compare 2 products in isolation. In that case why do companies waste so many millions in creating a brand?

[romeomidhun]

Anybody can be a winner, if we omit the competitors who have finished the race ahead of you! That's what happened in this poll. How can anyone omit the undisputed winner in the segment in India - the Swift - in this poll? This poll is intended only to make Punto a winner!

[shantyrocks]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

Anybody can be a winner, if we omit the competitors who have finished the race ahead of you! That's what happened in this poll. How can anyone omit the undisputed winner in the segment in India - the Swift - in this poll? This poll is intended only to make Punto a winner!

dude..
Swift has already been there done it before and turned out winner.
This war is between the new comers on the block.
Whether Ritz sells or not but swift is going to maintain its sales figures for many more years to come.
We want to see which one of Ritz/punto shall come close to swift.

[rohitv122]

Originally Posted by shantyrocks

dude..
Swift has already been there done it before and turned out winner.
This war is between the new comers on the block.
Whether Ritz sells or not but swift is going to maintain its sales figures for many more years to come.
We want to see which one of Ritz/punto shall come close to swift.

The war is to establish themselves over the old market.
This is how the trend is going to follow, since multiple brands are going to follow up with their new range of models to survive the trend.

Days are gone when we used to buy a car & would worship the same model for years together.
Swift would see its end soon...but lets not go ...
Clearly Punto is going to be the winner, just the same way the Pulsar won the battle when it came up against cbz & other brands.

The Punto is the modern Hitler of the Blitzkrieg war.
IMO minute issues with Punto can always be taken care of against the ugly born built Ritz.