[misquitas]

Originally Posted by GTO

Lets not get over optimistic here. To many, the Ritz will still be a better car because its lighter & easier to drive, is ergonomically better, is more refined, quicker (lighter), more fuel efficient (lighter) and has interiors that are screwed better.

I prefer the Punto, and it is a heck of a hatch. But that is a pretty sweeping statement which this forum is best without.

Amit may be accused of making a sweeping statement, but he seems to make an interesting point. To repeat what he said: "Most of the people buying a Ritz or Swift will like the Punto but they will always buy the Maruti cars because the deciding statement will always end with "Punto is a better car but it's a Fiat."

The crucial word is not the 'car', but the 'manufacturer'. Most of my friends also clearly prefer the Punto on paper, but when I asked them what car would they buy with their precious money, all of them said "Either Ritz or Swift, but not Punto". But why? I asked them. Each of their replies varied a bit, but all of those explanations had something to do with the image of the company.

In other words, all of them prefered to invest Rs 4-6 lakh in a car of a better-known manufacturer, instead of buying a car from a company (Fiat) that shares its sales and service with another company (Tata). Their concern is understandable. What would be their situation if Tata and Fiat suddenly decide to say ta-ta to each other? On its own, what would Fiat's presence (sales and service) be in the country? As one friend said, "I'm more satisfied with a average car of an excellent company than an excellent car of an average company.

I tend to agree with this friend as I previously owned a Matiz. In my opinion, it was an excellent car (at the time) of a company that virtually abandoned its customers in the country.

Please note that these friends are not car geeks to look into every aspect of the car. Nor are they willing to spend much time, effort and money to modify their cars. They simply want a car to take them places with relative comfort and safety. For them, a Maruti car gives them greater peace.

Regards, Melvyn

[SLK]

Originally Posted by amit

That's something the whole country knows from day one. Most of the people buying a Ritz or Swift will like the Punto but they will always buy the Maruti cars because the deciding statement will always end with "Punto is a better car but it's a Fiat."

I was looking for a diesel car. Almost bought the punto, to hell with the A.S.S. but it is a fact that the car did not drive well.

Drove a Ritz (completely unwillingly) after 15mins of driving the punto, and never thought of Punto again.

Ritz to me was a car, I didn't want to be seen in! after owning a WagonR for 8+ years.

Forget the brand for a minute! FIAT is not god. Solid feeling cabins do not always make better cars.

Bought a Ritz VDi ABS. After being a member of team-bhp almost since the day it started, you can assume I have no preference or prejudice for any brand. (I hate Maruti A.S.S. so much that I have stopped getting my WagonR serviced, and plan to continue that way as I'll keep that car)

Originally Posted by misquitas

Most of my friends also clearly prefer the Punto on paper

Unfortunately, you can't drive a paper! Or a Picture for that matter.

[RX135]

Originally Posted by GTO

Lets not get over optimistic here. To many, the Ritz will still be a better car because its lighter & easier to drive, is ergonomically better, is more refined, quicker (lighter), more fuel efficient (lighter) and has interiors that are screwed better.

I prefer the Punto, and it is a heck of a hatch. But that is a pretty sweeping statement which this forum is best without.

Not entirely sure about it. Amit has made a very valid point.

If we look at the forum poll, 80% people think that Punto is better than Ritz. But, when time comes to put the money on the table, most of these 80% folks will back out just because it's a FIAT. Just 3 years back, we were debating on this forum if Fiat would last till Dec - 2006 or shut shop before.

Average Joe is not an enthusiast and hence, thinks quite differently than one. These are most likely reasons why he'll pick Ritz:

1) Ritz is a Maruti. So it has better resale, better FE (perceived), better A/S/S. Neighbour has it and my dad, uncle, aunt, cousin, nephew, in-law has it.
2) What is Punto? Is that a car? (Most likely response when you utter word Punto).
3) Oh..a Fiat car? But Fiat are those taxies in Mumbai, and my grandpa had one.
4) Oh, I know Fiat cars. My friend had a Palio GTX. It was soo fast, but it guzzled fuel like anything and he sold that 6L car for 1.5L. I don't want to touch one with a bargepole.

So, mostly it boils down to the Fiat part of it.

[misquitas]

Originally Posted by SLK

After being a member of team-bhp almost since the day it started, you can assume I have no preference or prejudice for any brand.

Are you indirectly implying that some of us "newbies" have a 'preference or prejudice' to a particular brand and that veterans on team-bhp are immune to these 'preferences or prejudices'? I only hope it is not another "sweeping statement".

Originally Posted by SLK

I hate Maruti A.S.S. so much that I have stopped getting my WagonR serviced, and plan to continue that way as I'll keep that car.

Do share with us secrets on how you intend to keep the car running.

Originally Posted by SLK

Unfortunately, you can't drive a paper! Or a Picture for that matter.

Many people (like myself) are not car geeks and tend to rely on road tests and discussions on cars in magazines and forums (like team-bhp). For them, the initial impression tends to be "on paper".

Originally Posted by RX135

If we look at the forum poll, 80% people think that Punto is better than Ritz. But, when time comes to put the money on the table, most of these 80% folks will back out just because it's a FIAT. Just 3 years back, we were debating on this forum if Fiat would last till Dec - 2006 or shut shop before.

Average Joe is not an enthusiast and hence, thinks quite differently than one....mostly it boils down to the Fiat part of it.

My thoughts exactly.
Regards.

[SLK]

Originally Posted by misquitas

Are you indirectly implying that some of us "newbies" have a 'preference or prejudice' to a particular brand and that veterans on team-bhp are immune to these 'preferences or prejudices'? I only hope it is not another "sweeping statement".

I said, you can trust me on my experience of driving/buying and reading about this for as long as team-bhp. That is not supposed to be read as don't trust anyone else.

Originally Posted by misquitas

Do share with us secrets on how you intend to keep the car running.

I didn't say no maintenance. Just no M.A.S.S. services. It's no magic, it's running very well since the last 15k kms.

And secrets? Look around this website.

Originally Posted by misquitas

Many people (like myself) are not car geeks and tend to rely on road tests and discussions on cars in magazines and forums (like team-bhp). For them, the initial impression tends to be "on paper".

Yes! true even for me. That is why I almost decided to buy it.

But, they you aren't eligible to give an opinion unless you actually drive it from the point of view of buying it. Please do that!

The test drive of both the cars is available VERY easily.


There is no doubt, that for some Punto would be a better option. They'll like it. After all everyone has the freedom to choose whatever they feel like.

But at least feel it in flesh and blood, don't just read it.

[misquitas]

Originally Posted by SLK

There is no doubt, that for some Punto would be a better option. They'll like it. After all everyone has the freedom to choose whatever they feel like.

Absolutely and there's no dispute on this. But I know of many people who prefer to go by the opinions of others (parents, uncles, friends, mechanics, car sales persons, etc.) rather than their own impressions of the vehicle. Many who actually like (and may want to buy) the Punto may end up with a Ritz/Swift instead, simply because "many people said so!"

By the way, good to know that you bought the Ritz. My brother-in-law bought the Ritz LDI last month and has been pleased with his new baby. Sad part though is that he doesn't drive the car, his wife does. Worse still, he says he is too lazy to go to a driving school and would rather sit in the co-passenger's seat and admire the nature.

[Thomas8700]

i just watched on you tube the Ad for Grande Punto with yuvi in it.
i think i saw a scene where one of the headlights was not glowing /on when the cars comes towards the screen from an angle!! can someone please confirm.!! [ if true which morons are doing the ad? how did this get through on national television??)

even the Ad seems to be suggesting to follow the heart and be different from others!.

going by the figure amit has posted.

Ritz DDis: 1,865 units.
Punto MJD: 1,356 units

i think the ritz doesnt come with airbags in diesel right? even then its selling more. and more importantly not all variants have ABS right!! even then it sells.
no wonder India is still behind in this safety thingy i guess. why the hell doesnt the Government make atleast ABS compulsary!.

what about the punto which all models have atleast ABS/airbags!

going around this forum i have seen that tata is bashed to full extent why is the scene like this?. and what will be the situation when the NANO is out?? wont there be serious resource crunch at the service centers??

i have a bad feeling that the already good/better car ( if car alone is considered Punto wins hands down!!) Punto and linea for that matter will be allotted less resource towards service once the nano comes out!!.

this will again put off customers!.

this is a perfect recipe for Fiats go back

[shantyrocks]

Originally Posted by Thomas8700

i just watched on you tube the Ad for Grande Punto with yuvi in it.
i think i saw a scene where one of the headlights was not glowing /on when the cars comes towards the screen from an angle!! can someone please confirm.!! [ if true which morons are doing the ad? how did this get through on national television??)

even the Ad seems to be suggesting to follow the heart and be different from others!.

going by the figure amit has posted.

Ritz DDis: 1,865 units.
Punto MJD: 1,356 units

i think the ritz doesnt come with airbags in diesel right? even then its selling more. and more importantly not all variants have ABS right!! even then it sells.
no wonder India is still behind in this safety thingy i guess. why the hell doesnt the Government make atleast ABS compulsary!.

what about the punto which all models have atleast ABS/airbags!

going around this forum i have seen that tata is bashed to full extent why is the scene like this?. and what will be the situation when the NANO is out?? wont there be serious resource crunch at the service centers??

i have a bad feeling that the already good/better car ( if car alone is considered Punto wins hands down!!) Punto and linea for that matter will be allotted less resource towards service once the nano comes out!!.

this will again put off customers!.

this is a perfect recipe for Fiats go back

the sales figures are very good compared to that of the ritz.so 80% of ritz buyers are going for the petrol.
A good product with decent A/S/S will always sell decent numbers.
A good looking car like punto will sell if FIAT provide good A/S/S.
As far are rattles are concerned ppl baught the swift inspite of rattles.

[DCEite]

Originally Posted by amit

Punto will never remotely challenge sales of Ritz, Swift, Jazz and i20. That's something the whole country knows from day one. Most of the people buying a Ritz or Swift will like the Punto but they will always buy the Maruti cars because the deciding statement will always end with "Punto is a better car but it's a Fiat."

Punto may be a better car for *you* compared to Ritz/Swift. but please don't generalize your preferences by using words like "most".

For example. for me, i find Ritz a better car, even without considering the brand or A.S.S etc.
The tall boy design which has immense usefulness in city driving (i know that since i own a wagonR), the ease of ingress and egress, a more eager and responsive engine, better fuel efficiency, better built interiors, fantastic front seats, lots of cubbyholes, are just some of the reasons.

And there are many like me.

For you, the reasons for preferring Punto maybe different, and i respect that. But please dont generalize your own opinion.

[Ajay_J]

Originally Posted by RX135

So, mostly it boils down to the Fiat part of it.

Good excuse. Whenever it comes too sales figure many guys repeat the same old rant "Its better car but indian junta does not understand the hitech technology behind it". Come on guys...There is no space for excuses now. Its sell the product or get out from market. No other manufacturer is crying foul over it. If HONDA made same excuse would they be selling CITY like they are ? They are not afraid of competition from MUL, they are taking it heads on, and succeeding. So is Hyundai and TATA. They are eating into Maruti's pie slowely but steadly.lts open market let the best win. For god sake dont blame indian junta for failure of a product/brand.

Originally Posted by DCEite

The tall boy design which has immense usefulness in city driving (i know that since i own a wagonR), the ease of ingress and egress, a more eager and responsive engine, better fuel efficiency, better built interiors, fantastic front seats, lots of cubbyholes, are just some of the reasons.

Maybe you haven't driven enough cars other than the tall boys. I started driving in an OMNI, and then graduated to a Santro. And by then, I was so obsessed with the tall seating that I was looking at only tallboys to buy. But then (it was in 2003), after I couldn't find any "good" (in terms of style, safety, comfort etc) tallboy, I bought a not-so-tall-boy. Now, after driving it for 4 years, I won't look back at a tallboy again. Easiness of ingress and egress is just a perceived advantage, in reality nothing like that exists. You drive in more comfort in a 'normal' car than in a tallboy.

Read today in a regional newspaper that 1 person each die every two minutes in road accidents. So sad. Eventhough the Govt has made helmets mandatory for two wheelers, they do nothing to enforce safety in cars. It is time, govt act and boot out those unsafe cars from the roads.

[extreme_torque]

Originally Posted by DCEite

For example. for me, i find Ritz a better car, even without considering the brand or A.S.S etc.
The tall boy design which has immense usefulness in city driving (i know that since i own a wagonR), the ease of ingress and egress, a more eager and responsive engine, better fuel efficiency, better built interiors, fantastic front seats, lots of cubbyholes, are just some of the reasons.

And you may never move over tall boys if this is all you need from a car. No i20, Swift or Punto for you.
I would not get into arguments on the build and interiors..... the rattles after a few year will say it all.

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by GTO

Lets not get over optimistic here. To many, the Ritz will still be a better car because its lighter & easier to drive, is ergonomically better, is more refined, quicker (lighter), more fuel efficient (lighter) and has interiors that are screwed better.

I prefer the Punto, and it is a heck of a hatch. But that is a pretty sweeping statement which this forum is best without.

GTO,

Still, isn't brand a very very important parameter in car buying decision-making process?

I mean, from a marketer's perspective - what would have happened to Sales Charts if it had been Maruti Punto & Fiat Ritz ?

OT - And also - if it was Maruti Linea ?

Would it have made difference to the Sales Charts? Just curious from academic/ Marketer perspective (pls do not read anything about which is the better or worse car etc)

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by ashwinpak

Easiness of ingress and egress is just a perceived advantage, in reality nothing like that exists.

'Easiness of ingress and egress' do really exists. People try to make themselves believe that it is just a perception, because the lack of such easiness in a 'short-in-height' car is compensated by some other factors like increased stability and sporty driving position.

[asr245]

Originally Posted by DCEite

Punto may be a better car for *you* compared to Ritz/Swift. but please don't generalize your preferences by using words like "most".

For example. for me, i find Ritz a better car, even without considering the brand or A.S.S etc.
The tall boy design which has immense usefulness in city driving (i know that since i own a wagonR), the ease of ingress and egress, a more eager and responsive engine, better fuel efficiency, better built interiors, fantastic front seats, lots of cubbyholes, are just some of the reasons.

And there are many like me.

I agree with responsiveness and FE as Ritz is lighter. Buttt... have you tried the rear seat in your WagonR? I have one too and I find those really uncomfortable. It's like a bench. My wife agrees. And we found this in in-city drives around NCR. So this is the first and last of the tall boys for me.

And the Ritz is plain ugly while Punto is gorgeous.