[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by GTO

2. For the latest financial year, Honda India lost 196 crores while Toyota was in the positive by 200+ crores.

The enclosed excel sheet provides 10 year financial performance of all major four wheeler companies in Rs. million. Some observations:
1. 2008-09 was bad for all companies. Yet Maruti, Tata, M&M posted lower profits, not losses.
2. Honda posted losses at both operating and net level. First losses since 2000-01.
3. HM has been making operating losses since 2003-04.
4. Honda and HM also reported sales decline in 2008-09. Tata Motors also did so, but that is largely due to the sharp (50%+) decline in CV during 2008-09.
5. Honda losses attributable to various factors (a) huge inventory of finished goods at beginning of 2008-09 which was run down in 2008-09 (accountants would know what is stock adjustment, but in the income statement, stock adjustments were negative Rs. 286 crores in 2008-09 (b) decline in sales (c) huge increase in depreciation costs (d) sharp decline in other income because of cash flow problems and huge decline in interest income. Honda made cash loss of Rs. 3 crores in 2008-09, compared with cash profits of Rs. 358 cr. In 2007-08.

[vasudeva]

Sorry, here is the excel sheet. Not able to post it in my previous post.

[srh]

Originally Posted by GTO

You bet:

1. Toyota has now comfortably overtaken them in sales & market share. This despite Honda launching a small car, Toyota has neither a small car nor a 9 lakh sedan. The Fortuner will only extend Toyota's lead by 300 cars in the monthly tally.

2. For the latest financial year, Honda India lost 196 crores while Toyota was in the positive by 200+ crores.

3. Honda needs to work on its image. Cars lacking in features are clearly not the way to go for a premium'ish manufacturer. You can't think small when your aspirations are big.

4. The % of diesels in passenger car sales is growing. Honda has none for India.

There was a time when Honda was no.1 in all the segments it competed in (NHC, Civic, previous gen Accord and the CRV). They need smarter strategies & a whole lot of hard work.

1. Not an apple to apple comparison. Toyota sells a MUV

2. Doesn't really represent overall profitability at a global level. The loss might be due to high royalties paid to parent company or higher prices for CBUs/ components charged by parent company. It thus could be a transfer of profits to an overseas entity at the expense of the Indian entity

3. They should stop being a premiumish manufacturer, buy the Indian growth story, show commitment, invest in localization and scale. Today they are nowhere, neither a premium car manufacturer nor a mass producer

4. Cannot agree more

[psp62in]

The discussion on the slowly declining sales of Linea and not so great numbers of Punto bring back the memories of similar discussion on TBHP and other forums in 2003 when Palio sales started dropping. Almost identical points, arguments and suggestions! (Only change this few are complaining about AS*S and FE).

It suggests a marketing glitch with the FIAT.

I have now started feeling that despite all the product merits, Linea sales will be following the same Palio trajectory (though may not be that steep a drop).

I hope I am proven wrong in the months to come.

[shrinivasap]

GTO - Welcome back from yout vacation . Really missed your analysis for the month of July.

[loving_alaap]

Why honda is not thinking like typical Indian co.

Less profit, high volume business of theor superb wuality cars, Insteead of High profit, less volume cars.

Wen numbers go up, the overall cost will go further down, addin up their profits.

If this happens, it would be a dream for avg Indian to buy a Honda at Hyudai price.

People are saying here, that Stick to "H" when buying a car.

Hyundai: if money is a concern

Honda: If money is not a concern

[devarshi84]

I have been one of the only few guys who shout foul about Honda's Indian operations.

Seems like they are finally reaping the results of their own sins.

Fiat needs time. They now have a large service network backed by Tata, good vehicles that are on par with competition on latest tech and fuel efficiency and their marketing spend has also increased. But to clean up a brand image takes years. Fiat aint doing the best job at it though.

[sanagg1]

For those who are not so good with accounting numbers
a trend/chart may be more comprehesible

[diffsoft]

Originally Posted by GTO

For the latest financial year, Honda India lost 196 crores while Toyota was in the positive by 200+ crores.

GTO - do you have the full P&L for Toyota?

Vasudeva - many many thanks for sharing the financials (would asking for Balance Sheets also be too much?).

I managed to look at Skoda's financials elsewhere (including Balance Sheet) for curiosity and it was pretty sad. I wrote about it some where else in the forum. With such financials you cannot rely even on their written word to provide warranty. What use is a warranty if the giver of the warranty does not have the financial wherewithal to fulfill its obligations in case an adverse exercise of warranty by its customers - a likely scenario for an unreliable car maker providing warranty.

Cheers,

[GTO]

Sorry, don't have it. I picked up the numbers from a biz daily (don't remember, it was either the ET or the BT).

About Skoda, well, I wouldn't be worried about their financial health WRT them fulfilling warranty obligations. VW is very healthy

[vasudeva]

Toyota Kirloskar's numbers would be available only with the Registrar of Companies and with Toyota itself. They do not publish it.

[amit27]

Originally Posted by Gilead

Ajmat, did the VW dealer give any hint about the Polo launch date?

VW dealers are saying launch in Nov. and delivery to start from January presently putting their entire might behind launch expansion of delership .Pricing apx. 6.5 for top end . They have started doing training for their staff . ( All info from VW dealer Salesperson )

[Gilead]

Originally Posted by amit27

Pricing apx. 6.5 for top end . They have started doing training for their staff . ( All info from VW dealer Salesperson )

Thanks for the info. Do you also happen to know the specs of the top end variant?

[vasudeva]

The 10 year numbers are already posted. In terms of recent quarterly performance, Oct-Dec 2008 was the worst in recent history with sales going down 21%, and operating profits practically nothing. Since then, sales increased 1% in Jan-mar 09, and 13% in Apr-Jun 09 (all values, volumes already posted).

More than the recovery in sales has been the recovery in profits and margins. In fact, operating margins in Apr-Jun 09 were close to normal. The industry has gained from various sops and sharp decline in input costs (plastics, steel, copper, aluminium, etc). They have kept most of these savings themselves and passed on crumbs to the consumer. However, one can perhaps forgive them some as their operating margins were sliding for 2008 and were at a record low of 0.5% in Oct-Dec 08.

[RakishRam]

Originally Posted by Sunilrj

visit mangalore. Peninsular Honda
salesguy: can you afford a Honda City

salesguy: 100's of people visit the showroom everyday. if we give a testdrive to everyone we shall have to close the showroom

This is disgusting. I've been to BMW Bangalore showroom and they never asked me this Question despite me having no remote looks of a potential BWM buyer. They provided a test driver as well.

Note:- I bought mine from Peninsular Cochin, and those guys were real professionals. Brought civic to my place for test drive the next day after my visit.

Originally Posted by shrinivasap

My experince with Magnum - Honda - in Bangalore has been excellent till date. I always get prompt service reminders, my questions are always answered promptly. well, i never went to their show room for a TD - I just called them to my office and i took 4 TDs to confirm the deal...

Having been to both Magnum and Dakshin, I must say Dakshin has improved a lot lately and are doing a brilliant job now, much better than Magnum.

Originally Posted by RX135

How many sales executives are really knowledgeable about cars across dealerships and manufacturers?

I was hugely impressed by the navneet motors (BMW) b'lore sales chap's knowledge of BMW cars plus how good he compared it with Merc and Audi. In fact he was too proud to have beaten Merc for last six months or so in this year.