[vasudeva]

Originally Posted by Seeler_Rebeiro

I do not know whether to be gratified or offended, but the Palio (Petrol or MJD) did not seem to have made it to your list. I own a Palio BTW and I know its numbers are nothing to be proud of.

I may be able to offend some people and perhaps get away with it, but I would rather not stir the Fiat constituency!!!.

This list will be updated next week for 8/09. So keep watching.

[VahanPujari]

Altis beating Civic is understandable though looking at the huge margins, Civic has now remained far far behind.

What is disturbing is Superb beating Accord. With all those Skoda Horror stories, however great the car Superb is, Honda should be worried. Years of hard work of building a brand, Reliability can not be lost. Not fair. Seems market was just waiting for Jazz launch at those price point from where it seems it all started.

Come on, Honda. Indian market loves you doing the best in the segments you operate. Return favour by giving them the innovations & equipments. Customers are being more aware now & know options are available.

Knowing Honda, they don't take long to rectify, if only the overconfidence does not come into picture.

[vasudeva]

Such a consistent decline for Civic should have caused Honda to wake up long time ago. I really do not understand, why they let their grip on the Indian market loosen. Such a decline should have caused wholesale firing (maybe has happened) and a huge change in pricing and marketing, a long time ago.

Forgot to add: Accent/Verna is also declining for the last 9 mths till 7/09.

[Sahil]

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

What is disturbing is Superb beating Accord. With all those Skoda Horror stories, however great the car Superb is, Honda should be worried. Years of hard work of building a brand, Reliability can not be lost. Not fair. Seems market was just waiting for Jazz launch at those price point from where it seems it all started.

Just goes to show that only good service back up does not make the car a winner, especially in the luxury segment. If you compare car for car the superb is far more equipped and feels a whole segment above the Accord.
That being said there is no excuse for Skoda's management issues, they are unacceptable. However in terms of spares and service the difference is not as large as one feels, the new Accord spares are not considered cheap by any means although they would be cheaper than the Superb's. Skoda now has service intervals of 15k kms whereas Honda is at 5k kms hence the costs are relative to the frequency, this has narrowed the gaps on service cost differences.

[rajneeesh]

[quote=avishar;1460776]From the above link:
Maruti
Cumulative sales 84,808 up 42 %
domestic sales 69,961 up 30%
exports nearly doubled to 14,847( mainly due to a-star to europe)
M800 sales down to 2,734
A2 segment 52,473 up 39% (alto,wagon-r,swift,ritz,a-star,estilo)
A3 segment 7,821 up 44% ( dzire and SX4)


If the Dzire is clocking approxmately 6000 nos then SX4 would be at around 1800 units. It seems that the "Man " is pulling customers from the likes of ANHC ( post the launch of Jazz and discontinuing of the ANHC M variant) .

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by Sahil

Just goes to show that only good service back up does not make the car a winner, especially in the luxury segment. If you compare car for car the superb is far more equipped and feels a whole segment above the Accord.
That being said there is no excuse for Skoda's management issues, they are unacceptable. However in terms of spares and service the difference is not as large as one feels, the new Accord spares are not considered cheap by any means although they would be cheaper than the Superb's. Skoda now has service intervals of 15k kms whereas Honda is at 5k kms hence the costs are relative to the frequency, this has narrowed the gaps on service cost differences.

Its not Honda's service which is its strong point. Service is just about adequate (this forum is filled with threads that many Honda dealers shows attitutde to customers).
Honda's strongest point is Reliability. Going ON & ON & ON, without any trouble. Market used to stress on this strong reliability against features/ equipments. But these recent trends are now showing a probable change in market dynamics in the coming months.

[Pragmites]

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

Its not Honda's service which is its strong point. Service is just about adequate (this forum is filled with threads that many Honda dealers shows attitutde to customers).
Honda's strongest point is Reliability. Going ON & ON & ON, without any trouble. Market used to stress on this strong reliability against features/ equipments. But these recent trends are now showing a probable change in market dynamics in the coming months.

+1 to that. As a former Honda owner, I must say you have to admire Honda for reliability. But I have waited for spares for 10 days ( driver side key/lock) on the one occasion I needed it. Their service process is just good enough for you not to get mad.

[Gilead]

It looks like Mahindra is within touching distance of Tata now. This is amazing. Tata had a big lead over Mahindra even a year ago. The Xylo appears to have done the trick. In fact Mahindra would be ahead now if Tata had not managed to sell some 3000 odd Nanos. Tata needs to bring out the Indigo Vista at the earliest.

[amoghchaphalkar]

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

Its not Honda's service which is its strong point. Service is just about adequate (this forum is filled with threads that many Honda dealers shows attitutde to customers).
Honda's strongest point is Reliability. Going ON & ON & ON, without any trouble. Market used to stress on this strong reliability against features/ equipments. But these recent trends are now showing a probable change in market dynamics in the coming months.

Originally Posted by Pragmites

+1 to that. As a former Honda owner, I must say you have to admire Honda for reliability. But I have waited for spares for 10 days ( driver side key/lock) on the one occasion I needed it. Their service process is just good enough for you not to get mad.

Having owned both Honda & Skoda I think I have some right in commenting here : about Superb beating Accord

VahanPujari has perfectly described Honda's service : "Adequate".

And in terms of reliability : My Skoda has definitely outclassed the Honda. Close to 1 lac kms and the car is still running like new. (By 75k running, the Honda had started developing minor niggles, rattles) I sold it to a friend and the car has now clocked close to 1.05 lac kms. So for similar amount of running, my Skoda today stands in a much better shape than the Honda.

I know I am the "odd one out" here who has received exceptional service and reliability from a Skoda.

Ceteris Paribus, I would definitely bet my money on a Superb outlasting the Accord.

The sales figures maybe suggest the same what I am thinking. I am sure there are plenty of buyers out there who have had similar experiences with their Skoda's as I have had with mine. Maybe previous Octavia / Laura owners are upgrading to Superb but previous Civic owners are not upgrading to Accord !!

If you ask me would I upgrade to Superb ? Frankly speaking : I don't know. I just might take the gamble.

But if you ask my dad (who has absolutely no idea about what TBHP is and the horror stories of Skoda) : his answer will be an emphatic "YES" !!

[akj53]

@Amog

Skoda has a very strong build quality and they have been scoring very high in UK auto reliability surveys. Here problems is that Skoda is not testing and modifying the cars as per Indian conditions (heat, dust, humidity, pollution and adulterated fuel etc.,) and rogue dealers.

Nothing in this world is perfect. People working in a company can err or do something irresponsible / unethical. Products can malfunction due to any reason. But as long as the principal company owns and rectify the mistake, compensates the customer properly and ensures that the same would not be repeated, every thing is OK and acceptable. Auto manufacturers worldwide have been recalling vehicles to replace problematic components, which have not even failed on majority of vehicles and nobody complains.

But here is Skoda failing to do anything on reported problems which are due to faulty parts, products not tested and customised for local conditions and ignorant / rogue dealers. In most of other countries, Skoda would have had to pay millions as damages for such irresponsible and unethical business practises. They are getting away with murder here, only due to absence of any prompt legal redressal system.

Knowledgable customers should boycott their products, inform all media channels and petition to all concerned Govt. departments for cancellation of their manufacturing licenses so that others may also be deterred from taking the customers for a ride.

[entropy]

Originally Posted by amoghchaphalkar

Maybe previous Octavia / Laura owners are upgrading to Superb but previous Civic owners are not upgrading to Accord !!

If you ask me would I upgrade to Superb ? Frankly speaking : I don't know. I just might take the gamble.

I for one swapped the Civic with New Superb for the feel good factor or may be that I got bored owning two trouble free Honda's earlier. Also agree that it is like a gamble - but couldn't resist doing the sin.

[vasudeva]

With all due respects, is it not diverging a little bit from the title thread (I am guilty too).

[amoghchaphalkar]

Originally Posted by akj53

@Amog

Skoda has a very strong build quality and they have been scoring very high in UK auto reliability surveys. Here problems is that Skoda is not testing and modifying the cars as per Indian conditions (heat, dust, humidity, pollution and adulterated fuel etc.,) and rogue dealers.

Knowledgable customers should boycott their products, inform all media channels and petition to all concerned Govt. departments for cancellation of their manufacturing licenses so that others may also be deterred from taking the customers for a ride.

I think we are deviating from the topic here. The point is not if Skoda is good or bad. We all know the facts very well. The point is not everybody shares the same perspective !!

To everybody's surprise (including mine) : Skoda Superb is outselling Honda Accord : that is a fact. We are only trying to analyse why this is happening.

You might appreciate that there maybe "satisfied" Skoda users who are not members of this forum and therefore their satisfaction is unheard of !!

I am not trying to support Skoda or claim that whatever they are doing is right. But if the sales figures suggest a premium Skoda product outselling a premium Honda product : there has to be some ground level reality that is making it happen right ?

There are countless posts where some BHPian has written that "my friend / relative / colleague was planning to buy a Fabia / Octavia / Laura / Superb but I advised them not to do so and told them about Skoda's horror stories" This clearly shows that there is still intent on the customer side to buy a Skoda product !!

Originally Posted by entropy

I for one swapped the Civic with New Superb for the feel good factor or may be that I got bored owning two trouble free Honda's earlier. Also agree that it is like a gamble - but couldn't resist doing the sin.

Thank you : I now have a real life example to illustrate my point above

[safari_lover]

Originally Posted by Gilead

It looks like Mahindra is within touching distance of Tata now. This is amazing. Tata had a big lead over Mahindra even a year ago. The Xylo appears to have done the trick. In fact Mahindra would be ahead now if Tata had not managed to sell some 3000 odd Nanos. Tata needs to bring out the Indigo Vista at the earliest.

I am not sure about the sales constituents of Mahindra. Is it just the Scorpio, Bolero and Xylo that sell as many as the numbers given?

BTW, I think Tata will be clear No 2 in the market in near future. Currently it is doing about 17 - 18K. When the Gujrat plant goes live, Nano would contribute not less than 15K and with the upcoming Indigo Vista and the Crossover, I see Tata doing around 35 - 40K comfortably, may be by mid next year!

[VahanPujari]

Actually, I never wanted to spark off debate of Skoda vs Honda. Can't fathom what Skoda is following, doing & "not doing".

My point is seeming change in customers' thought process. Going for Honda's supreme reliability (stripped features) & Badge value vs others fully-loaded features.

If this trend is really happening, its immensly good for the customers as Honda will then be forced to give equipments (like SX4 forced it to start giving ABS/Airbags/ Steering mounted controls etc)