[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Actually I keep hearing people say it outhandles all of them. What would you like me to compare it to?

Optra, RS, Accord, something that weighs similarly?

So now you say the Magnum is a bad handler. Any proof?

No man! I have just driven the car to Mysore and back once as my aunt's driver didn't turn up.

And how does being a fast car on the highway translate to being a good handler?

For me a good handling car is one that doesn't do any drama when I push it through a corner at good speeds, one that doesn't need me to slow down my speeds considerably to feel safe. Since you have always loved taking a car sideways, I think our definitions of a handler are much different.

A W126 or W140 S Class will annihilate any of our cars on the highway. Does that mean it's a great handler.

I have seen some of these being left to dust by 1.9Tdi's and what not from Bangalore-Goa via Shimoga, but that's only because of the nature of roads (two laned, really twisty sections). On GQ's the S has no match though. Come twisty sections, I have seen the S' slow down a lot. I don't get the point man. First and foremost, I asked Shan to see my Baleno & Siddu's RS video to see if the Elantra handled like a boat. IIRC all three cars nearly put out the same power (10-15bhp give or take) and all three cars were sticking together without dropping pace. I am sure you will say my baleno handled pretty decently. If a car behind was able to stay right behind with AC on while I assume it is half as good a handler as my baleno. Given the dimensions, the weight of the engine, I would take that anyday. But you are comparing it to the S which is twice as powerful.

You just said Tadu has had his suspension replaced.

IIRC, that was at 90k, which is quite amazing given how we all drive. That car takes a lot of load given that it does a lot of frequent trips to Pala where you will get some of the best ghats in South India. Have you taken that into consideration?

IIRC he has also had his clutch replaced twice

That is mainly because of his driving style. Though I can vouch no one has destroyed more clutches than you have .

and his gearbox housing replace atleast once, if not more.

I doubt that. He replaced a sump guard after cracking it on hitting a speed bump.

Actually the Baleno went through much more abuse than the Santro, even on bad roads. But it came out better. I therefore infer it is a better built car.

Oh! You have always told me about how badly you used to abuse the Santro and I have hardly ever seen you getting the Baleno out since your mom used to use the car or have heard you anytime saying you abused the Baleno on bad roads. My bad.

Rahul! You say the Elantra is a great car, period. Not vis-a-vis other diesels. In that context, why be fixated on petrols?

Akshay, kindly read that thread once again properly. My requirements back then were for a 200 bhp (atleast) car. No diesel car in my budget could have churned out that much.

I remember JD also had higher compression, a cam, and an exhaust. I may be wrong about those things though.

IIRC, the engine was bone stock except for a filter. I remember JD saying something on the lines that he was going to mod the engine and convert it to rear engined Getz with a roll cage.
Wow, I had no idea! Can you post some links please?

Which, in the end is why people don't buy Hyundais as much, maybe.

Akshay, almost every manufac has dished out quite a few lemons. I have had friends/relatives with lemon maruti's, fiat's, Skoda's, ford's and what not. So lets not generalize.

Originally Posted by kpzen

Do you read before posting or just start typing from the word "GO".???

I had clearly stated 3 things why its not a fair comparo :
1. 35 Bhp / 50Nm ( in stock form )
2. 200cc difference
3. The all important VGT

Kp, kindly take some time to read my posts before jumping to conclusions man. The 3 states of tune I described was to Shan's post about "ON TRACK" testing.

1. Stock Getz v/s a Pete'd swift plus given its better handling narrows down the 35bhp gap to 15bhp. Swifts better handling compensates for the 15bhp less it has, which IMO is quite fair. Other two comparo's were just to try out different P&C's and see the difference.

2. Like I mentioned earlier, no two cars come with the same CC. So don't get too worked about it, because if you do no two cars can be ever compared "fairly".

3. IIRC, given the limited knowledge that I have VGT's forte is mainly the low end torque with very little turbo lag. On track, unless you are at the start line the cars never drop below 2,500 rpm at any point. So unless you are telling me that a VGT is much much faster/better (like around 20-30% difference in flow) than a FGT from 2,500-4500 rpm I don't see how its such a big disadvantage that it can annihilate a FGT car.

Even i'm wondering

No KP. Truth is I get paid by Hyundai. Even the track owners pay me to promote more track days. Happy? I am told Yoko pays you too? Is it true ? I know for sure there is someone on this forum who is in touch with close quarters from the Yoko admins and keeps sending them links like in Tadu's S.drive case.

Truth is, I am just honestly appreciating some good cars I have had a chance to drive. If you don't like them kindly stop fretting and find yourselves a better thread to post on than come here, post repeatedly and have an argument. Will save us both from having to reply.

[Vid6639]

I agree with the thread title.

Rahul you are biased, have skewed perceptions and preconceived notions about Hyundai cars being the best cars in the market.

But I don't know why you have all of the above even when you don't own a single hyundai and only drive other's hyundais.

I think everyone will agree on that point.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by vid6639

But I don't know why you have all of the above even when you don't own a single hyundai and only drive other's hyundais.

Yes Viddy! I am biased. Specially given that I don't own these cars, yet sing praises for them. Its like me referring people to some real tuners like Raj sir/Bobby uncle when my friends/members here want a reliable fast car so that they don't go to these wannabe tuners and get ripped off. Yes, I personally haven't given my cars to either of these two tuners yet, but if I am wrong in suggesting them, am I being biased? I was just being helpful, but I guess people like getting conned, being mislead.

Its a pity people like you see it that way and keep mum when people are unnecessarily singing praises for cars they own just to increase their tribe. And what I find more funny is that the same people who made some nasty comments on other threads haven't even opened their mouths here at all.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Its a pity people like you see it that way and keep mum when people are unnecessarily singing praises for cars they own just to increase their tribe. And what I find more funny is that the same people who made some nasty comments on other threads haven't even opened their mouths here at all.

What does tuners have to do with Hyundais???

Keeping mum about what??

Only if I know something can i be mum about something.

I own a toyota, a mitsu and a maruti. Where do you see me singing praises about any of these brands or cars?

People think mitsus are heavy on maintenance and have poor mileage. I did not open a thread saying people are biased and have preconceived notions about mitsus. I just post the maintenance costs and the service experience good or bad.

[ssjr0498]

Please correct me if I am wrong!!

If a car is so flimsy that is does not pass a crash test!! Can it be homologated and allowed to do rallies!!

Also! if it did not pass the crash test what was ARAI doing!! How did the car land up on Indian soil?

A car that apparently did NOT PASS the CRASH test!! Got homologated and RULED the INRC for 4yrs on the trot!!

If a car is so flimsy!! can it really do that!!

I am really having a hard time digest that!

Also cant find anything which says that the city did not pass the crash test. It will be interesting to see that!!
Cheers
Shrey

Originally Posted by kb100

You are soooo right! Confidence is truly subjective, and which was why "I" was very specific about WHY "I" am not confident. Since I clearly aint no Kimi/Luca/ nor Massa, "I" did NOT feel inspired by any tin can that can go FAST but cannot stop when "I" want it to... and is guaranteed not to save me if in a collision even at 40mph!

I take crash test results very very seriously - if a car has not passed a crash test @ 40 miles per hour - then the car is only capable of one thing - being a widow maker!

Tests have shown the Elantra's 100-0 braking distances are next only to the S class - that too only by ONE solitary meter! I feel/felt much safer in a car which can out-do a Vtec any day in rain,cloud or shine in an 100-0 than a 0-100 - plus guarantee me a margin if I fail to stop in time!

So sorry if you, or anyone else, likes the Vtec - I was/am petrified of it! It was an extremely unsafe car unleashed on unsuspecting Indians only because of our lax laws! (At a ridiculous price too I might add!)

Lastly MY opinion (on the absolute lack of safety in the Vtec ONLY) is based on FACTS - at no time did I quote/question any of yours! Lets keep it that way pls!




Friend - I am recommending a car - not the driver!

Secondly, if you ARE a novice driver, you are better off in something that has PASSED crash tests, and comes with safety features like ABS with EBD and Traction Control coupled to twin airbags! Hell, I am sure even Shumi (or any professional) wont catch himself in something without all that!

Lastly, if in any doubt, just check out how many of our rally champions swear by the Elantra - so much so that the Elantra is their personal car of choice - the car that they have shelled out their own hard earned money for, and the cars they and their families travel in!

Looks like the next track day is a potential myth-buster!!

[ACM]

On the OHC VTEC vs Elantra vs Magnum

I am quite an agressive driver but never get a feel of how other passengers feel till I am being driven around by another aggresive driver. It is a different ball game when the stearing is not in our hands.

A Sr. Sales person in our company used to give me lifts on some days when my car would be in the service centre. He used to drive either the OHC (non vtec - slower - but same boby and suspension as the vtec) or the Elantra. The Elantra always felt more safe vs the OHC. Also similarly on being driven around in an Optra magnum the Elantra felt safer than the Optra Magnum which in turn felt a safer than the City.

By the way have driven the 3 as well for relatively short periods and the feeling of confidence / safety was also in the same order as above. Though the Magnum (Deisel) definately felt most powerfull followed by the elantra (diesel) folllowed by the OHc petrol 1.5.

Ideally the ANHC should have been compared but have not had that experienced long enough as yet.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by vid6639

Keeping mum about what??

Viddy, don't get me wrong. But have you really been reading threads where people have made some ridiculous comments about Hyundai's? Please read some quotes from my first few posts on this thread. I don't see anyone making such comments on any other make.

I own a toyota, a mitsu and a maruti. Where do you see me singing praises about any of these brands or cars?

I own a swift too FYI, do you see me singing praises for it? Heck, I haven't even had a thread for it, nor a garage. If I do sing praises for a Getz/Elantra it must mean something. Those who want to believe it, shall. For the rest this is just another thread they will read, forget and move on.

I just saw some ridiculous comments on other threads, started this thread to find out why people think Hyundai cars aren't even worth giving a try. But this thread is getting blown out of proportion only because people can't accept a Hyundai can actually be good. If you don't like my views, leave it, move on.

Originally Posted by ssjr0498

If a car is so flimsy that is does not pass a crash test!! Can it be homologated and allowed to do rallies!!

Anything is possible in India. Kindly do read up on crash tests and the results on many other cars that have made it to our shores. We are probably one of the very few countries who treat safety features like ABS, airbags as a luxury than a necessity. Such is the attitude of ARAI. Need I say more?

Since you mentioned about Vtec and Rally in one sentence, can you tell me how many VTEC's are running in rallies since the last 5yrs? Actually when was the last time a Vtec ran a rally? I wonder why they scrapped them specially given that it RULED the INRC for four years on the trot?

[kpzen]

Rahul
Are u related to EKTA KAPOOR ?? You just keep going on and on like her serials.....

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

I am told Yoko pays you too? Is it true ? I know for sure there is someone on this forum who is in touch with close quarters from the Yoko admins and keeps sending them links like in Tadu's S.drive case.

Ohh i didn't know Yoko also makes Washing machines...

I also wonder why you never said S drives are crappy until Tadu faced a problem. The moment he posted about his S drive experience, all your friends, Uncles/ Aunts and tuners also started facing the same issue.

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

I am just honestly appreciating some good cars I have had a chance to drive. If you don't like them kindly stop fretting and find yourselves a better thread to post on than come here, post repeatedly and have an argument. Will save us both from having to reply.

[spadival]

Reading the thread's title, its obvious that the OP has a preconceived notion that most people are biased when they comment badly about Hyundai and their Point A to B automobiles. why?

Have you considered the alternative view that these people may not actually be biased, but are truthfully voicing their opinion? Maybe an opinion poll would settle this matter once and for all.

IMHO, Problem with Hyundai is that their cars are butt ugly and are priced higher than the value that the Hyundai "brand" can demand. The second point is purely from a marketing perspective, some of which, I , myself don't understand. Look at Honda, they too make rubbish cars that look even more uglier, but set the sales chart on fire.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by kpzen

I also wonder why you never said S drives are crappy until Tadu faced a problem. The moment he posted about his S drive experience, all your friends, Uncles/ Aunts and tuners also started facing the same issue.

Honestly, that was my 1st experience with S.drives, I was really looking forward to seeing how they do as I had heard a lot about them from Jay on Zak's Mivec. Needless to say, it was mighty disappointing when I sat in Tadu's car. Don't take my word for it, but Prabuav, karthikkumar, Viddy, brraj and many others were a witness to this.

KP, grow up and cut that sarcasm out. I suggest we leave my aunt's/uncle's out of this.

Then I had another scary experience with Karthik247's baleno. I run Yoko's on my car if you remember and swear by them. So its not that I hate Yoko as a brand, its just that S.drives are good in wet, good with lateral grip, but once they warm up a bit, they are suicidal under braking. Atleast from my experiences on the road. If I were to suggest good tires for my close friends, I would never suggest the S.drives, period. Its just my opinion. That said, why do you take my opinions so seriously that it warrants an argument everywhere?

Originally Posted by spadival

Look at Honda, they too make rubbish cars that look even more uglier, but set the sales chart on fire.

I remember saying this once a long time back (I love the OHC and ANHC btw). Before I hit the submit post button the entire Honda fraternity was out with guns and battle tanks .

[moralfibre]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Viddy, don't get me wrong. But have you really been reading threads where people have made some ridiculous comments about Hyundai's? Please read some quotes from my first few posts on this thread. I don't see anyone making such comments on any other make.

Yes, look at Skoda and Fiat threads. Now you'll say they are well deserved.

I own a swift too FYI, do you see me singing praises for it? Heck, I haven't even had a thread for it, nor a garage. If I do sing praises for a Getz/Elantra it must mean something.

This is probably your 20th post on this thread making the same statement. To be frank with you it doesn't mean anything if you own product X and praise product Y. First and foremost, it sounds like you are being an authority on the subject. Secondly it is highly irrelevant in the matter of praise, since you like Hyundai for reasons they are not bought for. They are bought as commute cars hence the Getz CRDi, the Elantra, the Getz Petrol, were discontinued. If they were really as good as you make them out to be and more importantly what the market wants them to be, they would have been chartbusters in sales which they weren't. No one makes cars in India to sell anything less than 100 units a month. If they are / were selling those many numbers then the product was a "FAILURE" irrespective of how fast it might go around a track and how many rally drivers wives drive them.

I just saw some ridiculous comments on other threads, started this thread to find out why people think Hyundai cars aren't even worth giving a try. But this thread is getting blown out of proportion only because people can't accept a Hyundai can actually be good. If you don't like my views, leave it, move on.

Probably you need to be aware that there are car buyers who are not on team-bhp and own Hyundai's. They are second to Maruti in sales figures so what type of recognition are you trying to seek for the car? I guess there are more people who own Hyundai's than you make it sound to be. Hyundai is good, they make good commuter cars. You find some amount of performance in them whereas people who actually own them don't. And when they don't, you are trying to pass an opinion of poor driving skills, etc.

[mclaren1885]

Originally Posted by moralfibre

Yes, look at Skoda and Fiat threads. Now you'll say they are well deserved.

No, Skoda service is day light robbery. I read some of those threads and moved away from buying a 2nd hand RS.

As for the Fiat threads, all I see is, people owning 1.1's recommending GTX's on every thread, but since we are talking about Fiat there its totally acceptable, when it comes to Hyundai, I am questioned if I own one. I have seen people recommend a GTX even when the budget is 15L . Atleast I don't do that just because I love a X/Y car.

And then you have posts about the passion with which Fiat cars are built as if no one else makes their cars with passion. When someone finds a fault with FIAT cars, most owners can't digest it and resort to personal digs.

First and foremost, it sounds like you are being an authority on the subject.

I am no authority on anything Kiran. I have gone through a bad patch when it came to tuning cars, so I put out some warnings in the modifications section from whatever I have learnt with time hoping it would help others here. If people still neglect bad reviews about X,Y,Z tuner and go to them and burn their fingers, is there anything I can do? I was just trying to be of some help. End of the day what matters is what you chose.

Similarly, I felt these cars were good (against most contrary views) and put out my opinion. Its as simple as that. If you still wish to disagree, be my guest.

You find some amount of performance in them whereas people who actually own them don't. And when they don't, you are trying to pass an opinion of poor driving skills, etc.

Kiran, kindly show me a post where I have taken a dig at someone's driving skills. All I have said is, every car handles differently and needs to be driven differently. If I try to drive an Elantra like I do drive my Baleno, it will handle rubbish. Same vice versa too. No two cars can be driven the same way, that was my only point. You don't have to be a genius to figure that out.

The real point you, KP, Viddy seem to be missing is some of the quotes I put up on my first few posts on this thread. Where members said "I would never even put myself to liking a Hyundai because its Korean". It were statements like these I wanted to know an answer to.

[greenhorn]

I think the OP has what we mallus call 'akkarapacha'

or , in english, as "the grass is greener on the other side"

I'd say put your money where your mouth is, buy a damn hyundai, live with it for a few years, service it a few times, crash it once or twice, and get it repaired back to shape , and then come and preach about it. Till then, you yourself are just as prejudiced as the others are, in a different sort of way though.

[Vid6639]

Let me understand this now. You don't own a hyundai but think others are biased and have preconceived notions about them being bad.

Now your saying that you recommend real tuners like Raj/Bobby but have never tried them for your own car.

Then you pretty authoritatively say that yoko S.drives are very poor tyres when you haven't owned them till now. If you remember vikram_d and iceman91 were using them on track and those cars were handling pretty good (I sat in both of them). Yes I know Tadu had issues but the tyres cannot be termed bad just because they are not suitable to one car.

Similarly you cannot say people have a pre-conceived notion because you like the car and other's don't.

So that means that you are basically dishing out advice and recommending stuff that you yourself have never bought or spent your money on.

And just because you say a swift rattles and is bad does not mean that people will stop buying the Swift or any other maruti. So if people buy a Swift then they can also be termed as biased and they have skewed perceptions because they did not listen to you when you said the swift rattles and is not as good as Getz.

I read the first few posts of your thread and did not find any point in those posts.

I test drove the Sonata Transform as soon as it was launched before deciding on the Altis. My dad said he will not spend 17L for a Hyundai. I liked the car but even I felt that it was not worth 17L even with all those features and the 6 speed CRDI engine. It just did not feel as upmarket as even the Altis. The Altis actually felt more luxurious than the Sonata. And no it was not a mental mindset against hyundai. If that was the case I wouldn't have bothered driving it.

This whole thread would make sense if you were the one owning hyundai cars, using them everyday, spending on fuel and on service and repairs.

[ssjr0498]

Here it is, for your viewing pleasure. As for where it went and why was it scrapped.. I guess it was 1. the cost factor and 2. We had the 2 Liter Cedia's which is a rally pedigree!!

I know it sounds stupid, but has any Hyundai done what a Vtec did for 4 years if not more!!

Bro! I dont see any point in this thread, its meaningless and anyone with some grey matter would not compare a Hyundai with the likes of a Fiat, Honda, Mitsubishi etc, IMO, all of the said manufacturers have proven themselves in some form or the other (in terms of performance).

What has Hyundai done? Like moralfiber said, it is a company that makes cars to go from Point A to B and it bloody well does its job, no one can argue on that.

Slightly OT: Where the heck is you Baleno man, it's time that you got back onto that and its time that you started taking out the "Fastest NA Baleno in the country"for drives, maybe then that you get out of this diesel smoke engulfing you.

Cheers
Shrey

PS: the thing is, it seems weird to come from a guy of your experience and having owned the fastest Baleno in the country!!

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Since you mentioned about Vtec and Rally in one sentence, can you tell me how many VTEC's are running in rallies since the last 5yrs? Actually when was the last time a Vtec ran a rally? I wonder why they scrapped them specially given that it RULED the INRC for four years on the trot?