How VFM is the Tata Indica?

RX135 · 11th July 2005, 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conan

Fiat cars are "Gods gift to Indians", hence it will crop up in all the posts

Rather out of place comment, buddy! Especially when the person, who brought it up, does not own a Fiat, and neither is he great advocate of Fiat cars. Let's stick with Indica.

Shan2nu · 11th July 2005, 18:22

What are you guys trying to prove anyway? That the Indica isn't worth the money you pay for it?

I think that would differ from person to person. Someone looking for performance, snazzy interiors and refinement maynot consider the Indica to be a VFM car but, someone looking for a sedate, transport vehicle which is cheap to buy, maintain and run might see some sense in buying it.

VFM is more dependent on what you consider valuable.

Shan2nu

ported_head · 11th July 2005, 18:56

Yeah, the debate started when I thought that the Indica wasn't VFM. I sort of still stand by it. I didn't go out looking for bucket load of performance or to forever idle in the lap of luxury. A decent B-segmenter was all I was looking for, WORTH 4.5 lakhs. Since six-and-a-half-odd-thousand people seemed to pick it up every month, thought it to be.

Sure maybe my levels of expectation might be a bit higher than the general public, but it's not ridiculously benchmarked either. VFM differs from people to people when the competition is close, and you have to make compromises, here there is no competition. Which is exactly why people who buy it turn a blind eye to what really are quality issues. If there was another car people could turn to, you would see Tata spruce up the quality in a jiffy.

Sure, this VFM issue could be beaten to death till someone participating in the argument gives in, but that's not the point. The point was to see how many people have noticed Tata's complacency with the product and agree that for the money maybe they could have done better. VFM or not? Doesn't matter anymore, I'm probably out of the argument.

Stratos · 11th July 2005, 19:13

As people said. It matters from person to person. If people think its costly as per what it gives...they shouldnt be buying it. Practically the Indica offers you so much at a price others cannot think of giving. My personal Opinion. Dont quote.

2fast4u · 11th July 2005, 21:54

in short if its FE and maintenance the Indica rocks otherwise its just every second car on the road owned by a cab operator.

had a ride of the diesel DLG. the engine noise is evident at speeds of 20 to 70 in city so we took a bit of long open roiad to check its noise levels and it is really noisy at 110+. we put on the AC to check the speed lag and just on turning it on we realised the engine noise was lowered by the ac air noise so if AC is on sound of engine gets lost 70%. not much drop in speed pedal still firm on the floor.

the braking in straight line is OK but on the turns it looses track, unpredictable to say.

space YES good

size YES good

my opinion
to be driven below 100kmph and needs constant upshift to overtake and so would advise to look in the mirror giving a rear road user ample time for you to overtake and not be hit from the back.
use ac at all times to get off the engine noise keep it in fan mode.

still to test ride the LGi

think will compromise on space and FE and rather go for the Swift. but will check the LGi first.

speedsatya · 11th July 2005, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX135

Rather out of place comment, buddy! Especially when the person, who brought it up, does not own a Fiat, and neither is he great advocate of Fiat cars. Let's stick with Indica.

het RX,

i have always loved fiat cars.its only because of fiat india's ASS that i have always advice everyone to avoid them.

Conan · 11th July 2005, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX135

Rather out of place comment, buddy! Especially when the person, who brought it up, does not own a Fiat, and neither is he great advocate of Fiat cars. Let's stick with Indica.

Hey RX, I have nothing against Fiat or their cars. In fact I would have considered palio, if it had fit my budget/needs. I dont give two hoots to their ASS or the resale price. I like to keep the cars/bikes, i buy, with me for life.

But some comments from fiat owners really ticked me off. In fact one tbhpian went on to say that "palio users were true car lovers and the rest were point A to point B travellers". What horses**t!!...

Anyway returning to the issue at hand. I dont think indica is a VFM package for its current price range, perhaps 30-35k less would have suited it or with a turbo charged engine.
4.3 lac on road for a DLS model is not worth it in its current form, and they dont offer any discounts. Tata's dealers are as bad as fiat, if not better, thats my experience.

Regards,
Conan

tsk1979 · 11th July 2005, 22:59

Ok, i am a latecomer to this thread, but lemme give my 2 cents.
I am an indica owner, and have driven it for 45000kms, in north and south, at 3000mts above sea level, in torrential rains, on highways on nonexistant roads...
Why i bought the indica? Well it was the only car i could comfortably afford. I could have got an alto and the 1.5lac saving would have compensated for the fuel diff too, but i dont fit in the damn thing.
So what did tata give. It gave a car which could fit tall people comfortably with the economy of diesel and cost at par with the santro/wagonR.
Would i go for an indica now. No ways, i will go for the indigo. When people say that 7 years have passed and still they are selling the indica with same ****ty IDI engine. I would say no! After 7 years tata is selling the indica with a boot and a 70Bhp IDI engine which is at par with other diesels in the same price band.
TATA gave indians a car which fitted the spec they wanted.
What it lacks, well power. Thats the only gripe i have. I dont mind the handling, and frankly speaking the indica is not a bad handler, though its not the best.
I dont mind the ride, and i certainly dont mind the interiors since i was fed on a Gypsy, 118NE and the 800.
And ported_head if you really dread the weakness of the indica, go for an indigo. At 1lac its not much more expensive and will satisfy your performance lust somewhat. But believe me, Santro will be more painful than the indica/go on the handling front.I have thrown santro and indica around corners and i actually feel scared in the former!

Abhay · 11th July 2005, 23:35

As for the topic, most of the things I would have said have been said already....
I can't really comment on VFM aspect of the diesel since I own a petrol but I think it did sound more things for a decent price to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2fast4u

think will compromise on space and FE and rather go for the Swift. but will check the LGi first.

Yes do test ride it..I own a LGi, you can check out the review section for a detail description....btw not sure why you are comparing speed/power of diesel Indica to other petrol cars here ?
Its a no win situation....Swift is indeed a nice car, but your comment abt the price being same as an LGi is incorrect.

Indica LGi on road costs less than Swift (base) ex-showroom.

2fast4u · 11th July 2005, 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abhay

As for the topic, most of the things I would have said have been said already....
I can't really comment on VFM aspect of the diesel since I own a petrol but I think it did sound more things for a decent price to me.

Yes do test ride it..I own a LGi, you can check out the review section for a detail description....btw not sure why you are comparing speed/power of diesel Indica to other petrol cars here ?
Its a no win situation....Swift is indeed a nice car, but your comment abt the price being same as an LGi is incorrect.

Indica LGi on road costs less than Swift (base) ex-showroom.

Indica
LGi - Euro III - Rs. 392975
DLG - Euro III - Rs. 419987

Swift LXi - Rs 431000 approx

The fact is my sis is gonna buy the car and she had short listed DLG & LGi and i was recommending Swift. So the comparison of diesel / petrol.

Will check ur LGi post.

The Swift price of 397000 quoted earlier was ex-showroom. so the cock-up.

Anyway if i need more help on deciding on the LGi will contact u hope u dont mind if i PM u on this.

RJK · 12th July 2005, 01:10

Quote:

After 7 years tata is selling the indica with a boot and a 70Bhp IDI engine which is at par with other diesels in the same price band

We aren't talking about indigo. The same people had the car till 60k kms. So its not like what I'm saying is based on a 15mins drive. Btw, does TATA sell the indigo with the 70bhp car for 4.3lakhs on road? The original question was how much of VFM the indica is?

PS: Nothing against you. Don't take it personally.

sandeepmdas · 12th July 2005, 11:44

Well, the Indica V2 DLS / DLG fares outstanding. Let me quick-compare it with its peers:

(When compared to Indica)
Zen Di – outdated, cramped, safety issues, difficult to ingress/egress, in the same boat as far as the horses are concerned. Interior is better though
Zen Vxi – ditto issues plus FE.
WagonR – neck-to-neck race. But fails in looks and FE. The tata might fare well in safety.
Santro – same as above.
Alto spin 1.1 – BETTER than the Indica in every aspect except FE (if you are logging more than 1500 kms per month), looks and safety (maybe).
Swift – too early to compare, but by all chances, surely beat an indica.
Palio 1.2 - wins every point, but the dreaded fiat badge and FE…Besides, it is dated too.

I am omitting the M800 as from the list as the Indica costs almost twice.

I am also omitting all other Palio variants and the Corsa Sail from the list due to the sticker price. I will go for a Ford / NHC / Baleno instead.
I have seen people here comparing Palios with M800s. (“ A Palio will not kill you like a M800”). While this is true I cant see any logic in comparing a Rs 2-lakh car with another one that costs you a cool 6 lakhs. If that is the case, then IMHO a Palio should be compared with a Camry or Mondeo or Accord instead…

I own an Indica DLS (2004); I also drive a Qualis (2003) and a “Japan” Maruti (1984). Each car has its own merits and demerits.

v1p3r · 12th July 2005, 13:10

FYI, both the Alto Spin 1.1 and the Zen D are not sold anymore. The Alto 1.1 hasn't been sold for over a year!

man23ish · 12th July 2005, 13:24

Actually, if someone is looking at 4-wheels with a steering and something that can take you from point A to point B, safely and at the best F.E. provided distance between point A and point B is more than 50kms. I guess the Indica is the best bet. Its only the maintenance costs of a conventional IDI diesel engine that sucks..

GTO · 12th July 2005, 14:00

The Indica Good:

Diesel & FE
Space
Comfort
Cheap parts
Looks

Target market needs met

The Bad :

Interior plastics quality
Rubber Gearbox

Target market could not care less

With the kind of potholed roads that India is infested with, the Indicas ride quality, robust suspension and safety component make it the ideal choice! And why single out the Indica? Maruti still sells the crappy outdated zen for a 4 lac price tag. At best, that car is a two seater, in my opinion, with go kart ride quality to match the pathetic interior space. What has Maruti upgraded in 15 years except for a whacko front treatment and MPFi when the regulations forced them into it? 800? Palio?

And to the CRDi hungry - Which small car is available with a CRDi? Its only the cost of this technology that is making it prohibitive. Period. Most CRDi variants cost 2 lacs more than their petrol siblings.

Dont get me wrong. I do agree with RJK that Tata has not done as much to the Indica as they should have in 7 years. The interior quality is the least that could have been improved, not to mention the gear box. But we cannot discount what the car already offers to the Indian buyer.

GTO

11th July 2005, 18:22	#32
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	What are you guys trying to prove anyway? That the Indica isn't worth the money you pay for it? I think that would differ from person to person. Someone looking for performance, snazzy interiors and refinement maynot consider the Indica to be a VFM car but, someone looking for a sedate, transport vehicle which is cheap to buy, maintain and run might see some sense in buying it. VFM is more dependent on what you consider valuable. Shan2nu Last edited by Shan2nu : 11th July 2005 at 18:24.
	() Thanks

11th July 2005, 18:56	#33
ported_head Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai, India Posts: 2,387 Thanked: 20 Times	Yeah, the debate started when I thought that the Indica wasn't VFM. I sort of still stand by it. I didn't go out looking for bucket load of performance or to forever idle in the lap of luxury. A decent B-segmenter was all I was looking for, WORTH 4.5 lakhs. Since six-and-a-half-odd-thousand people seemed to pick it up every month, thought it to be. Sure maybe my levels of expectation might be a bit higher than the general public, but it's not ridiculously benchmarked either. VFM differs from people to people when the competition is close, and you have to make compromises, here there is no competition. Which is exactly why people who buy it turn a blind eye to what really are quality issues. If there was another car people could turn to, you would see Tata spruce up the quality in a jiffy. Sure, this VFM issue could be beaten to death till someone participating in the argument gives in, but that's not the point. The point was to see how many people have noticed Tata's complacency with the product and agree that for the money maybe they could have done better. VFM or not? Doesn't matter anymore, I'm probably out of the argument.
	() Thanks

11th July 2005, 19:13	#34
Stratos Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,609 Thanked: 1,449 Times View My Garage	As people said. It matters from person to person. If people think its costly as per what it gives...they shouldnt be buying it. Practically the Indica offers you so much at a price others cannot think of giving. My personal Opinion. Dont quote.
	() Thanks

11th July 2005, 21:54	#35
2fast4u BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: pune / Bahrain Posts: 488 Thanked: 7 Times View My Garage	in short if its FE and maintenance the Indica rocks otherwise its just every second car on the road owned by a cab operator. had a ride of the diesel DLG. the engine noise is evident at speeds of 20 to 70 in city so we took a bit of long open roiad to check its noise levels and it is really noisy at 110+. we put on the AC to check the speed lag and just on turning it on we realised the engine noise was lowered by the ac air noise so if AC is on sound of engine gets lost 70%. not much drop in speed pedal still firm on the floor. the braking in straight line is OK but on the turns it looses track, unpredictable to say. space YES good size YES good my opinion to be driven below 100kmph and needs constant upshift to overtake and so would advise to look in the mirror giving a rear road user ample time for you to overtake and not be hit from the back. use ac at all times to get off the engine noise keep it in fan mode. still to test ride the LGi think will compromise on space and FE and rather go for the Swift. but will check the LGi first. Last edited by 2fast4u : 11th July 2005 at 21:55.
	() Thanks

11th July 2005, 22:59	#38
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,825 Times View My Garage	Ok, i am a latecomer to this thread, but lemme give my 2 cents. I am an indica owner, and have driven it for 45000kms, in north and south, at 3000mts above sea level, in torrential rains, on highways on nonexistant roads... Why i bought the indica? Well it was the only car i could comfortably afford. I could have got an alto and the 1.5lac saving would have compensated for the fuel diff too, but i dont fit in the damn thing. So what did tata give. It gave a car which could fit tall people comfortably with the economy of diesel and cost at par with the santro/wagonR. Would i go for an indica now. No ways, i will go for the indigo. When people say that 7 years have passed and still they are selling the indica with same ****ty IDI engine. I would say no! After 7 years tata is selling the indica with a boot and a 70Bhp IDI engine which is at par with other diesels in the same price band. TATA gave indians a car which fitted the spec they wanted. What it lacks, well power. Thats the only gripe i have. I dont mind the handling, and frankly speaking the indica is not a bad handler, though its not the best. I dont mind the ride, and i certainly dont mind the interiors since i was fed on a Gypsy, 118NE and the 800. And ported_head if you really dread the weakness of the indica, go for an indigo. At 1lac its not much more expensive and will satisfy your performance lust somewhat. But believe me, Santro will be more painful than the indica/go on the handling front.I have thrown santro and indica around corners and i actually feel scared in the former!
	() Thanks

12th July 2005, 11:44	#42
sandeepmdas Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Varkala Posts: 1,538 Thanked: 2,491 Times	Well, the Indica V2 DLS / DLG fares outstanding. Let me quick-compare it with its peers: (When compared to Indica) Zen Di – outdated, cramped, safety issues, difficult to ingress/egress, in the same boat as far as the horses are concerned. Interior is better though Zen Vxi – ditto issues plus FE. WagonR – neck-to-neck race. But fails in looks and FE. The tata might fare well in safety. Santro – same as above. Alto spin 1.1 – BETTER than the Indica in every aspect except FE (if you are logging more than 1500 kms per month), looks and safety (maybe). Swift – too early to compare, but by all chances, surely beat an indica. Palio 1.2 - wins every point, but the dreaded fiat badge and FE…Besides, it is dated too. I am omitting the M800 as from the list as the Indica costs almost twice. I am also omitting all other Palio variants and the Corsa Sail from the list due to the sticker price. I will go for a Ford / NHC / Baleno instead. I have seen people here comparing Palios with M800s. (“ A Palio will not kill you like a M800”). While this is true I cant see any logic in comparing a Rs 2-lakh car with another one that costs you a cool 6 lakhs. If that is the case, then IMHO a Palio should be compared with a Camry or Mondeo or Accord instead… I own an Indica DLS (2004); I also drive a Qualis (2003) and a “Japan” Maruti (1984). Each car has its own merits and demerits.
	() Thanks

12th July 2005, 13:10	#43
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR / DXB / LON Posts: 5,334 Thanked: 6,896 Times View My Garage	FYI, both the Alto Spin 1.1 and the Zen D are not sold anymore. The Alto 1.1 hasn't been sold for over a year!
	() Thanks

12th July 2005, 13:24	#44
man23ish BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 626 Thanked: 18 Times	Actually, if someone is looking at 4-wheels with a steering and something that can take you from point A to point B, safely and at the best F.E. provided distance between point A and point B is more than 50kms. I guess the Indica is the best bet. Its only the maintenance costs of a conventional IDI diesel engine that sucks..
	() Thanks

12th July 2005, 14:00	#45
GTO Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 70,534 Thanked: 300,738 Times View My Garage	The Indica Good: Diesel & FE Space Comfort Cheap parts Looks Target market needs met The Bad : Interior plastics quality Rubber Gearbox Target market could not care less With the kind of potholed roads that India is infested with, the Indicas ride quality, robust suspension and safety component make it the ideal choice! And why single out the Indica? Maruti still sells the crappy outdated zen for a 4 lac price tag. At best, that car is a two seater, in my opinion, with go kart ride quality to match the pathetic interior space. What has Maruti upgraded in 15 years except for a whacko front treatment and MPFi when the regulations forced them into it? 800? Palio? And to the CRDi hungry - Which small car is available with a CRDi? Its only the cost of this technology that is making it prohibitive. Period. Most CRDi variants cost 2 lacs more than their petrol siblings. Dont get me wrong. I do agree with RJK that Tata has not done as much to the Indica as they should have in 7 years. The interior quality is the least that could have been improved, not to mention the gear box. But we cannot discount what the car already offers to the Indian buyer. GTO
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