[ikoneer]

Originally Posted by GTO

I respect Toyota even more than I do Mercedes Benz (something that changed as my automotive knowledge grew). The reason : organisational philosophy, engineering precision, unmatched reliability & durability, all rounded products and efficiency. To finish first, you have to first finish.

Excellent. Clear Analysis and would really help anybody looking for these cars to have a better evaluation.

My major dislike with my NHC is the ground clearance as pointed out by many others, each time the car is fully occupies, each and every speak breaker gives me great worry, i expect the scrapping and thud noise with utmost remorse and cursing. That's when the 8l car bites the dust.

OT: could you share some more pointers on your views on toyota.

[Guna]

I dont think GTO owns a ANHC.
I have been reading so many posts which indicate that whoever has gone for ANHC are being blind and irrational. GTO's thread relects the reasoning behind good sales ANHC has been posting. I think people are smart and there must be good reasons if they are putting their hard earned money on a certain car.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by simplythebest

OFF TOPIC: When are we gonna start referring to the honda citys and accords as 1st gen (1G, 2G) etc?

The HC, NHC and ANHC is getting a bit confusing. And what are we gonna do with the next one... AVeryNHC?

Hehe yes. I think its a long overdue change on TBhp. This is now the 3G City then. Good idea.

Now, coming to the actualy pricing, it is, as coolboy mentioned, a purely subjective matter. In fact, you will almost always find a buyer who likes a car for a particular reason at its price and sees value in it. The only car that is of VFM to no one is a car that hasn't sold a single unit. The sales charts are clear. The ANHC is perceived as a good buy by many buyers. End of story if you ask me.

[karanraheja]

Oh common. Every one is titled to have his own views. Rush is just trying to prove a point why people still buy a ANHC at a premium over others . Jazz sales are a proof that badge is not the only thing that sells ( thanks to the competition).

[lancer_rit]

So, how does that matter when GTO made a detailed objective analysis of main strengths and weaknesses of cars competing with ANHC ? Or did you not read the main part of his starting posts ?

I don't own a Honda, yet I like the OHC and ANHC very much. I never liked the NHC, and will say so. The way it appears to me is that you are biased _against_ Honda ?

[Gany]

Having owned Honda in the past, I can say nothing to beat them except for Toyota! Only gripe GC+large wheebase resulting in touching some mother of speed breakers we have on our road! I guess Honda can learn this from Toyota!

[motorworks]

Glad to be here in this forum! Let me just quickly share my thoughts:-
1) I read somewhere that for honda the jazz was much more expensive to make than the city. I'm not sure if this is true. The point is, Honda could have priced he jazz at par with the fabia / jazz and romped home with great sales! They could have done that and generated volumes. Anyone knows that! so why didnt they do so? Either they couldnt or they either wanted to be really premium and thought that can sell at any price in india. If its the latter, then i'm sure it will back fire in india.
2) Secondly, I do feel that Honda is over priced, yeah sure, there is much more reliability than some other cars, but not enough to justify this premium.
3) Thirdly, every manufacturer have their own right to exercise their price points. If Skoda can walk away with a premium badge in india, why not Honda? Yeah skoda is rock solid, blah,blah..but they did price their cars with a premium all these years, and they did not have great technology either. Only now they have sort of justified their prices with the new superb and even the fabia { when compared to the jazz / i20}.
having said all of this, which apparently is not in support of honda nor against it, I wouldnt buy a honda with my heart. some people who think its about affordability but i dont think so. If i were to buy a car in the 8-10 lakh bracket I would surely love something like a fiesta or the linea, which have more character, which will push you to drive more and I would probably risk the 10% unreliability of these cars with a honda. What the heck! its a car not a robot!

Originally Posted by lancer_rit

So, how does that matter when GTO made a detailed objective analysis of main strengths and weaknesses of cars competing with ANHC ? Or did you not read the main part of his starting posts ?

I don't own a Honda, yet I like the OHC and ANHC very much. I never liked the NHC, and will say so. The way it appears to me is that you are biased _against_ Honda ?

Why should I pay two lakh extra for the car witch is 200 kg less in weight.
You know, well balanced car will not heart your bottom as much as bumpy car.
Engine power, how much you use in the city and then when it comes at very high RPM. Do you actually throttle that much to extract that power in the Big City like DElhi where traffic is at snails pace.
Its like Feeding a donkey too much to compete with a steed but donkeys will never win the race in real world.
I can write from point to point but its wasting of time only.

[lancer_rit]

Originally Posted by Shivashara

Why should I pay two lakh extra for the car witch is 200 kg less in weight.
You know, well balanced car will not heart your bottom as much as bumpy car.
Engine power, how much you use in the city and then when it comes at very high RPM. Do you actually throttle that much to extract that power in the Big City like DElhi where traffic is at snails pace.
Its like Feeding a donkey too much to compete with a steed but donkeys never win the race in real world.
I can write from point to point but its waisting of time only.

Well thank you for enlightening me!! No one car is perfect for every one. You are welcome to your opinions and to choose the car which suits your needs.
But, let me correct a few assumptions you made there.
* ANHC is not bumpy. It has a soft rear suspension setup (actually for ride comfort, which it does provide), and long wheelbase. Honda set up the GC too low for such a setup. My Lancer has a soft rear suspension setup, but GC being 185mm, I can cross speed breakers with much ease compared to these Hondas.
* Weight of car has to do with many aspects including the kind of materials used, and the design involved. Otherwise, we should prefer Amby and Boleros since they weigh more ?
Weights of cars being talked on this thread
ANHC :1100 kg
Fiesta :1110 kg
SX4 :1170(VXI)/1200(ZXI) kg
Verna : 1100-1152kg
Linea : 1240kg
So, as far as I can see, most cars weigh 1100kg (+ 50-70)kg. Only Linea weighs significantly more, but this, by itself, says nothing about the abilities of the Linea. Linea is a good car due to its styling, handling, features etc at a good price.
Also, FE is the #1 consideration for Indians buying a car, not car weight. ANHC trumps all as far as FE is concerned.
* Driving in city. No car in this list drives better in City than ANHC. That is what the tech with iVTEC provides you. Linear power delivery from low rpms to high. It seems you make statements w/o basis or experience here.
* As for donkeys and steeds, you got it all mixed up. With ANHC, you're feeding the prize racehorse, it will not only beat all comers in speed, acceleration and ease of driving, but also sip less fuel while doing so.

Finally, I would advise that you, either take the time to make logical and complete posts, or avoid posting (since you indicated its a waste of time)

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by Shivashara

Why should I pay two lakh extra for the car witch is 200 kg less in weight..

Don't you know that Honda offers optional lead bumpers? Brings its weight up to a very solid 1200 kg.

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Don't you know that Honda offers optional lead bumpers? Brings its weight up to a very solid 1200 kg.

And why is that for ?

[ImmortalZ]

It is to reduce fuel efficiency, add some sloppiness to the handling, a few more seconds to the 0-100 and in-gear acceleration times and to carry even more momentum into anything you hit to cause maximum damage.

[Mevtec]

Dear friends I really appreciate the courage of GTO to start this thread.In many Auto forums there are separate Honda bashing threads
(eg;kanjoos-wale.com).I am happy that Team-BHP has a balanced view of things.


ANHC is not perfect,but is a great buy.Mainly because it has a balance between power and fuel efficiency.You have to appreiciate Honda for being proactive.As NHC owner I had often felt that there is scope for improvement in a lot of things.Honda has improved almost all parameters in ANHC.Instead of making designing changes in the exterior Honda has done proper customer feed back and research.

Research and development will cost money.Who will bear it?.It is easy to fit somebody's engine in ones car and sell at a reduced rate for a market leader like Maruthi without affecting profitablity.

Most cars with a lot of free accesories and huge discounts are models which sell poorly.Maruthi will give a lot of accessories for SX4 but didn't even bother to give me a mat for our Swift Vdi.

Why is everyone concerned a lot about Honda's pricing.How can you explain the high price difference of various Innova and Xylo models based on equipment provided.I think Innova "V" is daylight robbery.But most of you might disagree.After running ANHC for 7500 km in 6 months I feel its worth the money,even at present price.

If you feel JASS is overpriced,it was not meant for a (kanjoos) NHC or Swift diesel owner like me..It was targeted as a second car for the Civic/Accord/CRV users !.Even if it sells less than predicted it may be still profitable to Honda at this price.


If one could consider the accessories provided with a CAR as a chain which (SHOULD) come as a standard accessory along with an Elephant......would anyone buy the elephant based on the cost of the chain provided.And will you bash the elephant because the chain is bad.
(Do you feel now that I should be chained).

What I was trying to say that ANHC is still worth the money,i.Dont waste
time comparing it it with Linea/Swift Dzire.If you have the money go for it.

When Linea becomes a long term success FIAT will increase its price and reduce the accessories and at that time we will feel it is "horribly overpriced
and those who buy it will be considered ignorant

[oss]

I think the premium issue has gone to bashing the car itself now.

I still feel ANHC is an amazing product and offers excellent city & good highway drivability. No doubt about that.

The question is as 'neotraveller' raised, how much premium one should pay for that. Leaving the city drivability, well refined engine, and spaceous interiors i don't see any premium factor in ANHC unlike the City-ZX (esp. the VTEC version) that really gave the top notch interiors.

Like 'Coolboy007' mentioned at the moment ANHC is riding the goodwill and image created by OHC & NHC, and let us waiting and watch if ANHC manages uphold the family pride.

As far the question of how much premium, i am willing to pay a premium for ANHC, but certainly not so much for the kind of features offered and for the rubbsih interiors.

[pmbabu]

Shivashara, I am assuming that you own a Linea (from your profile pic). Obviously, you had good reasons for that. Why don't you post how you weighed up Linea against ANHC and made the decision? Even if you haven't yet made the purchase, it will be good to understand your reasoning for preferring Linea over ANHC (or any other car in that segment?) May be we will be englightened hearing the other side of the story?

You know, well balanced car will not heart your bottom as much as bumpy car.
Engine power, how much you use in the city and then when it comes at very high RPM. Do you actually throttle that much to extract that power in the Big City like DElhi where traffic is at snails pace.
Its like Feeding a donkey too much to compete with a steed but donkeys will never win the race in real world.
I can write from point to point but its wasting of time only.

Sorry, I did not understand the gist in there. But would like to know the reason for enthusiasm in the Linea 1.6 thread.