[longhorn]

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

For most outside of this forum, as long as maruti maintains the key parameters, they will buy any new swift avtaar. My take.

Why then my friend, does the Ritz petrol sell more than the Swift petrol?
Though looks are subjective, I don't think anyone would contest the fact that the Swift is a much better looker than the Ritz.The engine is the heart of the car, and the K12M unit, though lower on cc by about 100cc, is a much more refined unit and more importantly gives much better mileage figures than the G13 motor on the Swift. This is why the Ritz petrol outsells the Swift petrol while its exactly the opposite when it comes to the diesel variant.

[Nilesh5417]

Originally Posted by longhorn

Why then my friend, does the Ritz petrol sell more than the Swift petrol?
Though looks are subjective, I don't think anyone would contest the fact that the Swift is a much better looker than the Ritz.The engine is the heart of the car, and the K12M unit, though lower on cc by about 100cc, is a much more refined unit and more importantly gives much better mileage figures than the G13 motor on the Swift. This is why the Ritz petrol outsells the Swift petrol while its exactly the opposite when it comes to the diesel variant.

You do have a point but then you had the answer right there! Which is what i was saying. Refinement? Hmmmm...maybe. Mileage? Hell yeah! Fun drive, refined etc are nice to haves. I start going there when i know i've an option from choosing cars with similar mileage figures.

When its about numbers, even the indica sold in huge numbers. Inspite of all the squeels, creeks and drab looks. But i guess once we bring in the "perception" factor, things undergo a sea change.

So i'm not negating the need for an engine upgrade for the swift. Just that there are few who are aware enough to demand it. We are fickle. Most will simply move on to the best available at that point of time. Sticking again, to the parameters of aam-admi.

Oh, and we add "Cost of ownership" to the list of parameters!

[mtnrajdeep]

They already have a 1242cc K series engine which has been reduced to under 1200 cc for meeting the small car norms for Ritz. What's there to stop them from using the same engine, without reducing the cc, in the Swift? This way they keep the performance image of the Swift, and reduce their costs by reusing most of the existing K12M engine parts!

[tj123]

Upgrading the Swift to the new -gen K series engine will further cannibalize the sales of Ritz for sure.

I think the market has not digested the rear end looks of the Ritz.
Personally I feel that Opel Agalia which is same as Splash(know internationally) has a better rear end design.
May be Maruti has to re-engineer the tail end of the Ritz to please the Indian consumer.
I feel that it is a good car with lot of Head room & tall boy practicality.

[longhorn]

Originally Posted by mtnrajdeep

They already have a 1242cc K series engine which has been reduced to under 1200 cc for meeting the small car norms for Ritz. What's there to stop them from using the same engine, without reducing the cc, in the Swift?

There's a small thing called excise duty which spoils the show here. You go above 1299 cc and you pay much more (not sure whether it is 12% or 16% as excise duty). Petrol engined cars less than 4 metres in length and having and engine capacity less than 1300cc attract only 8% excise duty.
How does a K12M VVT sound?

[mtnrajdeep]

Originally Posted by longhorn

There's a small thing called excise duty which spoils the show here. You go above 1299 cc and you pay much more (not sure whether it is 12% or 16% as excise duty). Petrol engined cars less than 4 metres in length and having and engine capacity less than 1300cc attract only 8% excise duty.
How does a K12M VVT sound?

The swift does not qualify for the excise duty since its more than 1200 cc engine. The small car norms are for cars less that 4m long and engine capacities less than 1200 cc for petrol and 1500 cc for diesel! So it does not matter!

[Vid6639]

A reliable source in Maruti just told me that the swift will come with K12M engine immediately once the BS4 norms kick in. April 2010 they will immediately release the Swift petrol with K12M and the Swift D will also be BS4 compliant in the same tune as Ritz.

[NeedaUsername]

Originally Posted by vid6639

A reliable source in Maruti just told me that the swift will come with KB12 engine immediately once the BS4 norms kick in. April 2010 they will immediately release the Swift petrol with KB12 and the Swift D will also be BS4 compliant in the same tune as Ritz.

Isnt the KB series a 3 cyl engine? I thought Swift is supposed to come with K12M motor thats there on the Ritz.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by NeedaUsername

Isnt the KB series a 3 cyl engine? I thought Swift is supposed to come with K12M motor thats there on the Ritz.

lol. Yes that was a typo. Changed it is indeed the Ritz K12M engine.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by aerohit

When did maruti offer engine options? They never did - so decision was never based on the engine.

Maruti gives engine options, but along with that, the car itself is changed!

Swift 1.3L - Ritz 1.2L
WagonR 1.1L - Estilo1.0L (as of now)
Alto .8L - A-Star 1.0L
SX4 1.6L - DZire 1.3L

Moreover, both Swift and Ritz are coming in Petrol / Diesel engine options.

And which other manufacturer gives such a variety of car models?

Moreover, Maruti has a clear-cut policy in terms of engine options in their cars. But others like Hyundai are a confused lot - they don't know which engine to use in which car. They use a 1.1L engine in a bigger car like Getz, and 1.2L engine in smaller i10. And the same 1.2L engine in the bigger i20 also! Remember, all these were not given as options initially, but given later to increase the dwindling sales.

Originally Posted by vid6639

lol. Yes that was a typo. Changed it is indeed the Ritz K12M engine.

Actually, K10B (3 cylinder) and K12B (4 cylinder) are the original Suzuki engines. Though they use this original K10B in A-Star and Estilo in India, they modified the K12B for Indian conditions (read tax benefit) and named it as K12M.

[aerohit]

I mean to say they never offered 1.6 or 1.3 for the same car!

Regarding Hyundai using 1.2 in i10 and 1.1 in Getz, probably because the newer engine is more efficient. (i dont know much about Hyundai though)


Regardless, Swift has been a terrible car in terms of rattles, g13 engine refinement, and harsh suspension.

[Technocrat]

Well they did offer an 800 cc & 1100 cc engine in the Alto for the first & last time

[Ajay_J]

Originally Posted by aerohit

Regardless, Swift has been a terrible car in terms of rattles, g13 engine refinement, and harsh suspension.

That says you have never driven it.

[prince85]

Originally Posted by Technocrat

Well they did offer an 800 cc & 1100 cc engine in the Alto for the first & last time

M1000 and Esteem as well.......1.0L and a 1.3L engine in essentially the same car but with different names. Both were sold by MSIL together between 1994 to 1997 before the M1000 was discontinued in August, 1997 IIRC.

[Technocrat]

Oh yes, I was somehow under impression that Esteem came after M1000 but I think you are right.