[samsan02]

OMG! now I feel why did I start the thread for, an epic debate has ensued. Thanks sushanthr77 you are the man. What a nice point to point compilation, really appreciate it.

I know many were trying to judge my intentions, well people if you are reading this. Just me starting a thread on TBHP or saying something will not change Maruti's fortunes over night. And I didn't print the news in a TOI either, its there for everyone to see and ponder.And I am not supporting an 'F' Brand here, or any other brand for the matter. BTW I dont want to name you guys here and put myself to more shame.

These are solely my views, no ofence meant to anyone.

Have you wondered, An Alto Lxi is a bare minimum car, But there is no left ORVM there, only one right one. Now what is that, even bikes have both left and right ORVM. Thats a basic necessity to drive a car safely isn't it. That should be standard on every car right, forget cars cycles have them these days. Isn't it a compromise on safety forget even airbags/ABS here. How much would that ORVM add to the cost when some one is ready to shell out couple of lakhs for an Alto.

Someone mentioned about Resale value, I know by experience how the Prices are quoted by True Value dealers. e.g 3 year old Swift Vxi costs 3.90L. Man what are they resselling some rocket. So much for a second hand rattling Swift.


Point is when India has given so much business to Maruti/Suzuki over all these years, why is there so much disparity between what kind of cars they sell elsewhere and what they sell here.

Look at a European Swift and a Indian Swift, dont indian's deserve the european one yet. Japanese made SX4 costs $15K in the US thats about 6.8L INR, Indian made SX4 sells for how much we all know. But do we get the same build quality, interiors ? Atleast Hyundai has started selling the same export quality i10/i20 here as well.

If they bring up the quality in their cars, With huge volumes/spare parts/A.S.S etc they can still capitalize even more.

[KITE RUNNER]

Dear e1t1bet,

Thank you very much for enlightening me to check the salary certificate of employees of an automobile company before buying a car.

Whether to buy an Autorickshaw or not will be my personal decision and I dont care what you will think of my personality if I buy a particular brand.

No offences meant, I am a stupid, below average Indian.

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by samsan02

Have you wondered, An Alto Lxi is a bare minimum car, But there is no left ORVM there, only one right one. Now what is that, even bikes have both left and right ORVM. Thats a basic necessity to drive a car safely isn't it. That should be standard on every car right, forget cars cycles have them these days. Isn't it a compromise on safety forget even airbags/ABS here. How much would that ORVM add to the cost when some one is ready to shell out couple of lakhs for an Alto.

Someone mentioned about Resale value, I know by experience how the Prices are quoted by True Value dealers. e.g 3 year old Swift Vxi costs 3.90L. Man what are they resselling some rocket. So much for a second hand rattling Swift.

So why are people buying a car without left side ORVM or buying a swift that costs so much?

[samsan02]

Originally Posted by srishiva

So why are people buying a car without left side ORVM or buying a swift that costs so much?

Because they are not me

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by samsan02

Because they are not me

We surely need smart guys like you in this country. Keep it up.

People buy what they need.

[vikrantj]

IMHO the issue is that we do not demand a certain quality or safety features or build. As I said earlier Maruti was always a "common man's car". But the fundamental thing is the common man is not what he used to be 20 years ago.He has gone a step ahead.So using the same marketing techniques of cost-cutting should be changed.

--Vikrant

[FlyingSpur]

Originally Posted by srishiva

We surely need smart guys like you in this country. Keep it up.

We do. Safer roads, that way, even if marginally so.

People buy what they need.

Does not equate to people understanding or respecting safety.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by Fabiaous

Safety is a big compromise,
If there is a head on collison betwen Palio / Punto with Sx4 , I wonder what state will Sx4 be.
Even if a Goat comes and hits a swift there are big dents , forget the bull / cow on highway.

As below, you need to get out there and take a reality check!

Originally Posted by YVES

Check crash test @ 40KMph of Swift in You Tube.
You will never buy one , Life saved is important, If one survives, one can buy spares for the damage caused.

Would help if you can get a bit specific instead of grandiose statements! , Maybe - you need to get out there and take a reality check!

Originally Posted by anuprav

Rightly said that maruti cars are ugly and compromise security.

Would help if you can get a bit specific instead of grandiose statements! The only car which qualifies your above statement is the Omni.

Originally Posted by AnonymousCoward

It will be good if you can share the official crash test links for Swift along with that of another manufacturer for cars belonging to the same segment and similar price band.

Agree. That's the way to go.

Originally Posted by sushanthr77

I think this is now turning out into a Suzuki bashing thread. It would be more constructive if we try to get to the bottom of the matter.

Completely like your post. What you've done is a decent analysis.

What most posters forget here is that Maruti is in the business of selling trust, not just cars.

Its a HEART decision, not a specification comparison!

[aerohit]

The lack of Left OVRM has spoilt the driving habbits of people. They dont bother to look who is coming from other side.

I also believe the culture of rash driving begin after the arrival of Marutis (800s) in 1980s.

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by aerohit

The lack of Left OVRM has spoilt the driving habbits of people. They dont bother to look who is coming from other side.

I also believe the culture of rash driving begin after the arrival of Marutis (800s) in 1980s.

left ORVMs - hmm.
I drove for 15 days with the left ORVM open, received 3-4 brushing, 1 bang, (the black on the left orvm has almost turned multicolor - white bus, blue bus, grey tata 407 - luckily no broken glass/mirror assembly).
Now I keep it folded and turn my head to cover the humongous blind spot. I guess non presence of left orvm in 800/alto made people (read bus drivers/auto drivers/doodhwala etc etc) believe that there cannot be a left ORVM in a motor vehicle, and the one who have left orvm and keep them open are from mars.


Its obvious that rash driving started from 1980s - thats when all and sundry started to own cars they could afford, and their numbers increased multi fold!
More cars in same space = less space for each car

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by sushanthr77

Are we compromising?
Yes we are. We still don’t trust the other brands. Every time we buy an 800, van, Alto, Zen, Estillo, Wagon, A-Star, Versa etc we are making a compromise on the car for the sake of better Reliability and A.S.S.

True. And very good analysis sushanthr77.

But, you consider reliability and A.S.S as outisde factors. Majority of the car buying population considers that as a part of the whole package. Thus losing out on some aspects to gain some.

Taking into consideration the car only as a machine, I do agree there are better machines out there in almost every price bracket!

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

I'll do a quick comparison;SX4 vs City:

No. I repeat the question again. And if i may ask- How would you rate your purchase decision? On all these factors? You didnt compromise on anything by buying a non-Maruti car? Include ride and handling as well, if you so please.

1. New technology?
2. Build quality?
3. Safety features?
4. Performance?
5. After sales?
6. FE? I am not sure, but I guess both are about the same
7. Resale value?
8. Ride and handling?

The question is simple- DID YOU COMPROMISE OR NOT on any of the above mentioned factors?

If you havent compromised at all, you have got the right to call us Maruti owners- 'buying an autorickshaw would suit his needs (and, I dare say; personality)', owners of 'good two-wheeler replacements'.

Else, be decent in your arguments.

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

If all one wants to do is be cheap, yes, buying an autorickshaw would suit his needs (and, I dare say; personality) .

Thanks for that reply. Point noted, sir!

Originally Posted by flyingspur

We do. Safer roads, that way, even if marginally so.

When the nano comes out, do we just shoot them at sight too? To make the roads 'safer' for a few brand of cars?

[e1t1bet]

Originally Posted by Gansan

My friend, speaking your mind is one thing, that is what a forum is for. But passing unwanted comments is another. Ever heard the adage "your freedom stops where my nostril begins"?

As far as I know, launching personal attacks on other members are against the rules here. I was criticizing a company, and plausible kind of cheap mentality of consumers which may lead them to buy a bad product.
If you associate with that mentality, it is not my problem. If that offends you, then you are intolerant, and should learn a thing or two about freedom of speech.
It is not like I criticized you religion (which is unconstitutional in India). If criticism of MSUL offends you, then IMHO you shouldn't be reading a thread where most certainly MSUL will be criticized.

Originally Posted by Gansan

I never expect anyone to look up to me as an example! May be they should rather emulate you, have an attitude, become judgemental and smirk about others' choices!

That's a personal attack. It doesn't effect me and neither do I care, but this is just to point you to what constitutes a personal attack.


@DCEite:

If you think thats ripping off, then don't buy it. Simple no? Maruti is not forcing it down people's throat, right?

Of course I won't buy it. But that doesn't mean that I do not have the right to criticize the company.

@CrazyDriver:
The question is simple-

DID YOU COMPROMISE OR NOT on any of the above mentioned factors?

It is obviously the choice that you make, which matters. However, there are certain things, no one should compromise on. For instance, I drive my friends and family around, and under no circumstances will I ever compromise on their safety. I am actually so concerned, that I don't take my non-ABS car out on the highway.
It is one thing to compromise on FE, and another to compromise on safety or the overall quality of the product.

@Blackasta: I never criticized someone buying a 800 strictly for going from point A to point B, or someone who cannot afford a bigger car. To be honest, I didn't even talk of the same segment that you are talking about. That being said, I don't see any reason why the choice of someone who drives on the highway, who can afford an i20 with curtain airbags, but chooses to drive the lowest end wagonR, should be condoned. Do we not attack people who drive on the wrong side of the road?

[chncar]

Originally Posted by srishiva

So why are people buying a car without left side ORVM or buying a swift that costs so much?

It is because of desperation, along similar lines, why do people still drive on potholed roads or why do they shell out 50 Lakhs for a flat that is really not worth half as much? Its because they have little choice, and just because they buy it does not make such rip-offs justified.

Some people can and will avoid the Lxi model because it doesn't have OVRM, and go for Vxi. The person who cannot spend 40,000 Rs more to upgrade from Lxi which doesn't have left OVRM to Vxi will either have to settle for it and maybe look for aftermarket fitments, or not buy. That does not excuse either the government who doesn't mandate such a basic safety feature, or the manufacturer who is too greedy to provide such basic options and is clearly not driven by excellence.

Suzuki's attitude towards India, at least until the last few years when their main market itself became India, was extremely condescending. As far as India was concerned, they were the Japanese equivalent of Peugeot, the only difference being that they had the luxury of establishing themselves as a monopoly under government patronage, and are still riding that wave from then. I expect that to change, what with VW, Toyota, Nissan, Ford etc looking very seriously at Indian mass market, GM and Fiat rebounding,and our very own Tata moving towards being world class. It wont be as easy for them to FOB off some outdated or internationally unsuccessful model on Indian market and still be a hit amongst Indian buyers, its already evident from the success (or lack of it) of A-Star, Zen Estilo, etc.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

@CrazyDriver:
The question is simple- It is obviously the choice that you make, which matters. However, there are certain things, no one should compromise on. For instance, I drive my friends and family around, and under no circumstances will I ever compromise on their safety. I am actually so concerned, that I don't take my non-ABS car out on the highway.

You skip the question again. Why did you buy a non-ABS car in the first place? If you still do drive a non-ABS car, what gives you the privilege to say 'buying an autorickshaw would suit his needs (and, I dare say; personality)', owners of 'good two-wheeler replacements'.

You are criticising people who cant afford a 'safe'car, when you yourself DRIVE one?

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

I am actually so concerned, that I don't take my non-ABS car out on the highway.

Accidents happen only on highways? ABS is required only for highway drives?

So, you think you can reply with 'buying an autorickshaw would suit his needs (and, I dare say; personality)' because we actually drive the cars we buy?

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

It is one thing to compromise on FE, and another to compromise on safety or the overall quality of the product.

e1t1bet:
From what i know about you, money does not seem to be a big problem for you. (As per the salary package, multi-country oppurtunities) and all mentioned in the other threads.

Know that there are people for whom cost of ownership, resale value matters a lot too. Thank god, you dont have to (And hopefully never will have to)! Rather than going on insulting them as a whole for the 'compromise' they have to live with! For them, the bigger compromise would be to give up on A.S.S and resale value or to end up waiting for spares without a car to travel in!

Originally Posted by DCEite

I think its time we should end this discussion.
To conclude, we should now all agree that Indian customer is "bad" and likes to make compromises.
Reasons are already given:
1) Do not know anything about cars
2) They don't use their "heart"
3) They don't buy cars using "Emotion"
4) They think tanks are used to store water
Peace.

+1.

[e1t1bet]

@CrazyDriver:
(1)I drive inside Bangalore, hardly ever on even 3rd, 4kms up and down from office to work. And I certainly do not need ABS for that. That isn't a compromise.
(2)Since you have read my previous posts, you can also check that I have posts on this forum on how I do not support overspending on cars.
(3)I NEVER spoke of the 800 or the Alto segment. An 800 is an upgrade from a 2 wheeler. It is an excellent choice for someone who wants a good city car or is someone on a tight budget.

That being said, if one can spend 5 lac+ on a car, he can easily spend 3-4k extra on service and 8-10k extra on fuel (both annually) and buy a safer, and a better car. This is a completely different thing from the issue that you have raised. Someone in a Nano is not cheap, but someone taking his City to a local garage, to save a 1000 bucks, IS.