[FlyingSpur]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

When the nano comes out, do we just shoot them at sight too? To make the roads 'safer' for a few brand of cars?

The comment was w.r.t. the left side ORVM.

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

...but someone taking his City to a local garage, to save a 1000 bucks, IS.

Sarcasm? If not, stick to the topic yaar! Let's not get into how workshops overcharge etc. and how 1000 rupees may be valued differently by different people.

[Caramelo]

IMO.

suzuki are yet to develop market share around the world. guys this is a company which is famous for making hayabusa a superbike. in the last say 7-8 years they entered in car making (IN a serious way). just look at their global portfolio and not the local one.

they sell the SX4 - crossover. SX4 sedan. the grand vitara. the swift, splash.etc... now lets look at the most developed market like in the US. and thats it.mostly. its the portfolio for india and other developing countries which has more hatchbacks.
with limited portfolio globally they will have limited growth!


GV is a COMPACT SUV. slogan--- live large... drive small....suzuki!!!!
now, ask yourself would that marketing campaign work in india?? NOO..

if a salesman uttered the word COMPACT in the suv segment and that too worth 17 lacs. that would be like sacrilege!!

if they introduced the Suzuki swift there! without safety features (i don't think they can legally do that) no American who is sane enough will even think of buying such a vehicle. even if make safety a standard its not gonna work!! as its apparently would be too small of a vehicle to really work!!

WHATs works for the world at large does not work for india. and what works in india does not necessarily work for the world!!


suzuki is known for reasonably priced vehicles. you can call them cheap transportation.
but i think over the years. suzuki has develop a method to this madness. they are producing good products and now good cars too.. KIZASHI.... a premium car without a premium tag.guys the real story has started now for suzuki as a global car manufacturer.


and for those who say that it skimps on safety features. it was Honda who was selling the city without airbags. and Suzuki SX4 in India brought the safety features as standard. so don't tell me that!!!

you can buy SWIFT ZXi, RITZ, ZXI, SX4 ZXI, even for god sake dezire has safety features. even the A-star has a ZXI. dual airbag, abs- ebd. etc.. every model of the global portfolio is being offered with safety features.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

I was criticizing a company...
If criticism of MSUL offends you, then IMHO you shouldn't be reading a thread where most certainly MSUL will be criticized.

Oh, so the parts of your posts I quoted/highlighted in mine actually referred to MSIL and not to the buyers of their cars? Then please forgive my ignorance!

[MCR]

MSIL is making the best use of situation. It exactly knows buyers mentality and its placing its products to meet this. As narrated in Caramelo's new thread Vxi v Zxi, most of the first time buyers are ignorant of safety features and dealerships donot refer them to the buyers fearing sales. Also I think its high time the agencies declare some safety features as "must on all cars'.

[ACM]

Suzuki after the name change from (Maruti) is suited to us and our demand and our expectations on the other hands are matched by maruti.

Majority of Indian's want:
1) High fuel economy
2) Cheap and reliable rather than classy service.
3) Reliable car rather than solid cars.
4) VFM
5) Want to use the car for 5-10 years and want a good resale even then.
6) Prefer the safety in numbers rather than wanting to stand out.

Maruti fullfills these expectations well for us so does well out there.

[chevelle]

Originally Posted by Caramelo

and for those who say that it skimps on safety features. it was Honda who was selling the city without airbags. and Suzuki SX4 in India brought the safety features as standard. so don't tell me that!!!

you can buy SWIFT ZXi, RITZ, ZXI, SX4 ZXI, even for god sake dezire has safety features. even the A-star has a ZXI. dual airbag, abs- ebd. etc.. every model of the global portfolio is being offered with safety features.

Its was a good thought and implementation by Suzuki to introduce safety features on SX4 which made Honda to provide on city. That is a thing of past. the present scenario is that Honda has moved ahead by providing safety features on all the city variants, don't you think Suzuki should also do the same? providing only safety features on higher end no longer command respect.

and this is not only for suzuki, i feel even ford, GM, Hyundai, Fiat should do the same on their sedan cars. Even if that means marginal increase in price across all variants.

This is just my opinion.

[samsan02]

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

(1)I drive inside Bangalore, hardly ever on even 3rd, 4kms up and down from office to work. And I certainly do not need ABS for that. That isn't a compromise.

What a ridiculous and a stupid statement is this. Justifying why you dont need ABS with a lame reasoning that you use it for just 4 kms drive to work. Doesn't it ever rain in Bangalore or get slippery in those 4 kms ever? I always wanted that feature even on my bike whenever it rains or on slippery/sandy roads.

Safety is safety ok, have you ever wondered why ABS is available as an option in a few variants thou not airbags. And always top end variant will have airbags.e.g Swift vxi ABS comes as an option, not Swift Vxi with just Airbags and not ABS, thou you get both ABS/Airbags in Zxi.
Because the probability of your car's ABS coming into real use is much much more and being useful than getting into a collision and the airbags getting deployed, so ABS is available if one wants to choose. Yes! its a safety feature and its going to cost, when one doesn't want to spend he may choose to go without it. But dont justify saying because I drive less to office so I dont need it. Thats misleading in a public forum and its stupidity.

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

(2)Since you have read my previous posts, you can also check that I have posts on this forum on how I do not support overspending on cars.

Why you dont want to overspend is again your choice, no point justfying when it comes to safety. People are better informed to make that decision themselves. Yes! I will also not overspend on a sunroof as its not much of use in a polluted city like Bangalore, and thats not compromising on safety.

[srishiva]

For most people buying lower end Marutis, its a dream to own a car that comes true.

Hope we are not running away from the reality of what Indians can afford. If the taxes were low, we could have afforded better cars. But then, we cannot digress from the topic.

Safety will always be relative compared to what a person can afford. A luxury car with active safety makes what most people buy as sub-standard.

So what we can get from this thread is that a couple of posters here are better off and can afford safe cars and are hell bent on criticizing others and a company which caters to their needs.

[greenhorn]

When I Chose to buy an Indica turbo over the Swift Diesel and the Wagon R, I did so because I could not compromise on
1.Price/VFM
2.Diesel Engine/Economy
3.Power & Fun to drive factor
4.Interior space (we are a size XL family)
5.Ruggedness (bad roadablity)
6.Handling & high speed stablity
7.Waiting period/Choice of colour, Variant etc.
8.Safety/Solid build
9.Availablity of spares/Long term maintenence
10 Looks (subjective)
While at least one of these marutis had compromised on each of these competencies , The Indica was the No Compromise Solution.

And what have I compromised on?
1. After sales Service ( Tata is improving, and once you know how to deal with them, is okay)
2. Resale Value( This is not determined by the manufactuers, but by the market. Whatever confidence maruti vehicles enjoy is due to their reputation , which is a bit of a catch 22. besides, resale values on Indicas are not that bad!)
3.Image? Wouldnt matter less to me. I actually bought a Taxi white Indica!
4.Interior Plastics

I think I made the right compromise

[samsan02]

Originally Posted by srishiva

So what we can get from this thread is that a couple of posters here are better off and can afford safe cars and are hell bent on criticizing others and a company which caters to their needs.

I dont think this is true, and no one here is just criticizing just one company or the people who buy from that company. Govt should mandate certain safety features on all cars, and there should be standard on all cars. They should strictly have global level Crash test certifications on all cars sold in India. As everyone said Maruti gives affordability to the masses, but it shouldn't be at the cost of safety. A Maruti 800 buyer's life is no less precious than a top end Skoda buyer. Any company which gives one right ORVM in the base model is not doing any favour to that buyer, It should be standard and we all know how much would that add to the overal lcost. Be it Maruti, Tata, Fiat, or Hyundai thats plain stupidity.

The discussion here is about Maruti because of its sales in rest of the world compared to India. That doesn't mean that other brands are superior when they sell in India. Even many other companies have stupid trim levels. And have their own set of issues, be in price, A.S.S, etc. But thats off topic.

[Dippy]

Note from Team BHP Support:

Guys lets have a healthy discussion on the topic and keep our tones in check. No more heated arguments please. Thanks.

[Ajay_J]

Originally Posted by greenhorn

When I Chose to buy an Indica turbo over the Swift Diesel and the Wagon R, I did so because I could not compromise on
1.Price/VFM
2.Diesel Engine/Economy
3.Power & Fun to drive factor
5.Ruggedness (bad roadablity)
6.Handling & high speed stablity
8.Safety/Solid build
9.Availablity of spares/Long term maintenence
10 Looks (subjective)

The Indica was the No Compromise Solution.

Apart from point 4, and 7 you thought Indica turbo was better than swift diesel. Are you kidding ?
Come on GH, you are getting overboard with MSIL bashing now.

[Gilead]

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

I am strictly talking of jobs on offer at IITs, RECs and other premium institutes. The last time I checked, the Tata Motors package was around 6L/annum. MSUL had just about 3 on offer.
I raised this issue because it is relevant to the topic. MSUL taking Indians for a ride.

I nearly fell out of my seat laughing when I read this. Can you please let me know the campus pay package of Ford? I just booked a Fiesta and maybe I need to reconsider if they are low paymasters. lol

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

@CrazyDriver:
(1)I drive inside Bangalore, hardly ever on even 3rd, 4kms up and down from office to work. And I certainly do not need ABS for that. That isn't a compromise.

And what do you do when a kid runs into the path of your car when there is sand, or oil or rainwater on the road? Modulate the brakes ABS-like with your feet?

Originally Posted by e1t1bet

That being said, I don't see any reason why the choice of someone who drives on the highway, who can afford an i20 with curtain airbags, but chooses to drive the lowest end wagonR, should be condoned. Do we not attack people who drive on the wrong side of the road?

Marutis are not a compromise. They provide excellent value for money. If I had 7 lacs and I bought an Alto for 3 lacs, that does not make me cheap. Maybe I wanted to put the remaining into my kid's education fund. Taking a City to a local garage does not make me cheap either. I may have some better use for the money saved. Nothing gives you the right to judge people's spending choices.

I thought you were here to criticize Maruti. Stick to that dude. Don't drag folks who buy Maruti into the discussion.

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by Ajay_J

Apart from point 4, and 7 you thought Indica turbo was better than swift diesel. Are you kidding ?
Come on GH, you are getting overboard with MSIL bashing now.

Like is said, In neither of these criteria did both of them have the edge over the indica. Even if one of them, IE the swift, was better than or equal to the indica, the other, the Wagon R was worse. And bear in mind, both these cars - the wagon R duo and the Swift D were both more expensive !

And like i said, I did not want to compromise on any one of them, and worse, pay more for the privilege of having to

plus I had my doubts about points 5,8 ( a friend of mine suffered extensive damage over a dog strike at regular speeds, and I was not too enthusiastic. I am aware of crumple zones etc, but I dont want my hood to get bent when a ball falls on it ( happened to his swift as well)

9. the swift had just been launched, and maruti's track record with diesels had not been established yet. THe zen diesel had been discontinued a year back, and was already facing issues with spares.

11 - well, mom and dad didn't like it. Dad said it looked like a frog on wheels Of course, entirely subjective. I like the swift looks, but dad's opinion was a roadblock.

Ajay, I am not bashing MSIL. Different people , as well as manufacturers have different priorities with cars. Just that mine dont match with MSIL's, and I dont wish to compromise. There are some people whose priorities match with MSIL products, and good for them, but the question being asked here is , are most people unconsicouly compromising on their priorities when they choose an MSIL product for various other reasons.

EDIT: @ gagan, the rest I've already answered, but I think Tata vehicles are as good as MSIL's . If you dont agree, I'm sure a TD of the vista or the Manza will change your mind. Its just that the Dealer and service front Needs to catch up.

[samsan02]

Originally Posted by Ajay_J

Apart from point 4, and 7 you thought Indica turbo was better than swift diesel. Are you kidding ?
Come on GH, you are getting overboard with MSIL bashing now.

May be he choose Ian ndica because of 4 & 7, which is high priority for him. What is Swift some Gods vehicle that you have to wait for so long. Come on.

And its just your opinion who thinks Swift outscores in the rest of them, so keep it to yourself, like he felt for Indica.