[vinaydas]

well i dont think the xylo is a flop but it averaged out.
even though xylo has better space management and a better engine than the innova ( but quality on the innova was ages ahead of the xylo) , people still have faith in the 3 year plus toyota.
In bangalore i see loads and loads of the new facelifted innova compared to the few xylos.
i dont think tata will shake up the market as some people suggested rather it will have a mild effect on the uv market and will mostly do average business.
Tata like maruthi is assosiated with a cheap car brand and if tata does the mistake of pricing this above the innova (14-15 lac as suggested)then it will definitely will be a flop.
But if tata goes the xylo way and gives VFM pricing it will do average business.

[srishiva]

These new Indian MUVs look more vertically and less wide. Thats is where Innova looks good and also helps against rollover and adds stability.

[quattroa4]

Originally Posted by Mpower

The lukewarm market response to the XYlo makes me a little worried about the whole van market.

Why is TATA not focusing on making a worthy challenger to the Scorpio.

EXACTLY , sir , why to do something else rather than doing what is required?
there is simple facts here that scorpio and m2di version of it plus the bolero slx have clearly distroyed the sumo brand even the grande not withstanding. what @ that ? who will look in to those things?
first get your bread n butter right n then talk @ lunch or dinner .

[1100D]

Originally Posted by quattroa4

EXACTLY , sir , why to do something else rather than doing what is required?
there is simple facts here that scorpio and m2di version of it plus the bolero slx have clearly distroyed the sumo brand even the grande not withstanding. what @ that ? who will look in to those things?
first get your bread n butter right n then talk @ lunch or dinner .

Sumo came to the market first, created the market, Bolero and whatever took the concept just challenged it and got better.

Xylo has so far not done good because space notwithstanding its too crude. There is no credence in the statement that the van market isn't quite there, Innova proves it.

Xylo hasn't been able to challenge it, does not mean, Tata will also fail. As a concept the Indicruze or whatever its called is a product from scratch instead of borrowing from an existing platform.

All Tata needs to ensure is build reliability into the product and provide A.S.S that are aware of the nitty gritties of this modern machine.

All the best to Tata.

This is the battle we are all eager to see, as we know Tata had in the past sent Toyota packing from India.

[tazmaan]

Those are alloys (nice looking) and it looks like the car has all 4 disc brakes.

[shortbread]

As a personal vehicle the present gen. Safari is a far better SUV than the Scorpio any given day, but M&M got their act right from day one and have built a reputation with the Scorpio brand rather than taking a whole decade to finally fix most of the niggles, a la Safari.

I think the face lifted Safari should revive sales especially against the top end Scorpio variants, but the latter will still do much better nos. since the Safari is primarily bought for personal use and has minimal sales in the Taxi UV market.

Tata must be hoping to revive its fortunes with the Grande II in the Taxi UV segment, but it has a tall order on its hands especially since its viewed as a flop already. Tata can only blame itself for the half baked attempt the first time round.

With the info available so far its pretty evident to me that Tata hasn't targeted the Xylo or the Innova with the Indicruz. Strong hints are it willl be priced 10 lac+ and I am not sure how many customers are willing to gamble on a Tata product at that price from day one, gradually maybe but it will take time.

But the biggest positive with developing the Indicruz is the steep learning curve that they have undertaken. The progress made on the technological and quality fronts should sooner or later this will rub of on their more popular products. Also a car like the Indicruz is important in garnering a good name for Indian brands abroad, with the Nano we've shown that we can build them cheap, with the Indicruz we shall show......well when launched let the car do the talking.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by shortbread

As a personal vehicle the present gen. Safari is a far better SUV than the Scorpio any given day, but M&M got their act right from day one and have built a reputation with the Scorpio brand rather than taking a whole decade to finally fix most of the niggles, a la Safari.

I agree with you on this. The Safari was a far superior product when it was launced compared to the first generation Scorpio. But the fact is that Tata's moved at a snails pace focussing purely on the Indica and the Sumo while totally neglecting their flag ship product. What excuse do they have for selling their most expensive SUV with an underpowered 90 bhp engine which could barely keep up with a *Taxi* Scorpio? Mahindra on the other hand kept improving their product endlessly. What ever you think of the Scorpio *image* the latest generation Scorpio at that price point is a true VFM proposition.

I think the latest generation Safari is a good product but the name has been so badly destroyed by Tata purely due to their neglect of the Brand. If you don't believe me, try to sell your used Safari on the market and see the response.

[Latheesh]

If you look at the pic posted by Sunil, we can see lot of similarities between the concept and actual production version. Look at the side profile,wheels and tail lamps; very close to the concept.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by quattroa4

there is simple facts here that scorpio and m2di version of it plus the bolero slx have clearly distroyed the sumo brand even the grande not withstanding. what @ that ? who will look in to those things?

ahem, the scorpio is competition to the safari whereas the bolero is competition to the sumo.

Originally Posted by shortbread

I think the face lifted Safari should revive sales especially against the top end Scorpio variants, but the latter will still do much better nos. since the Safari is primarily bought for personal use and has minimal sales in the Taxi UV market.

i agree that the current safari is supposed to be, infact deserves to be much better than the scorpio & obviously sell more! but it isnt the case & who else but tata is to be blamed?

but i disagree on the second part. scorpio sells in the taxi market? i havent seen any. yes, i have heard in punjab it sells in the taxi market but not in the rest of india!

all said & done, judging by the pics of the indicruz, i think tata has a winner in its hands. the xylo is not even comparable to the new tata. the xylo was merely a competitor to the grande at the max. it is now that the innova has been truly challenged, hopefully!

[rrsteer]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

all said & done, judging by the pics of the indicruz, i think tata has a winner in its hands. the xylo is not even comparable to the new tata. the xylo was merely a competitor to the grande at the max. it is now that the innova has been truly challenged, hopefully!

I think I have to count my names among the few in this forum who dont find the looks of Indicruz appealing. For me its quite tall and lacks width.
Going by what I have heard from most, its going to be priced upwards of Innova. Now, who will invest that kind of money in a tata product?

[gshanky]

I think TATA is targetting Indian as well as European market with Indicruz. I believe that is why it has a wagon'ish looks to it. But that is not an excuse to slip on anything from the design front. TATA can kiss the "overseas sales" dream goodbye if the initial build quality of the vehicle is not upto the mark.

If the car does not drive well, then there is no way it will sell overseas. But seeing TATA test the car extensively in Europe as well as in india, they should have made sure it got tested in most of the terrains under different conditions. And with all the delay in this project one can only hope the problems have been addressed.

4 more days!!

[harimakesh]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

I Going by what I have heard from most, its going to be priced upwards of Innova. Now, who will invest that kind of money in a tata product?

Already Tata has significant buyers for its Safari EX/VX variant which technically costs more than Innova G /V variant with all niggles / neglect by TATA that plague Safari. Better execution of Xover and notched up leveles of QC and services by tata will only increase its buyer base and lure those sit on the fence only due to TATA's lack of QC.

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

I agree with you on this. The Safari was a far superior product when it was launced compared to the first generation Scorpio. But the fact is that Tata's moved at a snails pace focussing purely on the Indica and the Sumo while totally neglecting their flag ship product. What excuse do they have for selling their most expensive SUV with an underpowered 90 bhp engine which could barely keep up with a *Taxi* Scorpio? Mahindra on the other hand kept improving their product endlessly. What ever you think of the Scorpio *image* the latest generation Scorpio at that price point is a true VFM proposition.

I think the latest generation Safari is a good product but the name has been so badly destroyed by Tata purely due to their neglect of the Brand. If you don't believe me, try to sell your used Safari on the market and see the response.

Unlike M&M which had only two product to focus that being Scorpio and xylo the attention was sufficient for these Product to get significant facelifts and improvements.

TATA however has successfully established as a worthy car manufacturer in these 10 years time by developing various new platforms with Indica to Vista and Maza While this great task has been reasonably accomplished with a proof of less niggles and improved QC levels acceptable on vista and Manza.

Now tata is focussing on its UV although Grande MKii is outrageous in its interiors even after facelift, TATA will hopefully set a trend in its MPV venture with Xover launch and the facelifted version of safari must be significant given more features can migrate rapidly from its MPV sibling xover.

[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

but i disagree on the second part. scorpio sells in the taxi market? i havent seen any. yes, i have heard in punjab it sells in the taxi market but not in the rest of india!

In Kerala, you would see quite a few Scorpios running around as people mover cabs. They are quite popular as well.

More discussion on this would mean we are going way off-topic.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by rrsteer

I think I have to count my names among the few in this forum who dont find the looks of Indicruz appealing. For me its quite tall and lacks width.
Going by what I have heard from most, its going to be priced upwards of Innova. Now, who will invest that kind of money in a tata product?

of course, looks can be subjective.

if the indicruz turns our to be a good looker, i will definitely be interested in it more than the innova because i am sure tata will offer more features at that price. but of course, i'll buy one only when i am sure that tata has ironed out all the glitches from the initial batches of indicruzs.

Originally Posted by benbsb29

In Kerala, you would see quite a few Scorpios running around as people mover cabs. They are quite popular as well.

More discussion on this would mean we are going way off-topic.

of course, some cabs maybe there but saying that it adds significantly to the sales is going a bit overboard. anyways, as said, lets not go OT.

[BurningHeart]

A day before the launch and still all we have in this thread is an turbo dipped in artificial blood and lots of gup-shup. ....we could have a done a little better....

BH.