[zulfi hansi]

So no more speculations, 2nd half of 2012 it is, we have 1 whole year to ponder over Duster, so much so for holding that interest on the boil.

[raul]

I think there is something going between who launches first; Dacia Duster or Mahindra W201. This is just speculation but given the history its highly unlikely anyone will let the other know of their plans. The moment one launches then there will be more clarity, untill then it could be deception.

I have a feeling Duster will launch this year, given Renault's relative aggressiveness, the fact that the vehicle was designed for markets like ours, and the need in the market for such a vehicle its seems highly unlikely they will push it to end 2012 if they want volumes and establish themselves.

The only other reason would be if they want to launch their more premium models first and then cars like Duster. But as some companies are learning brand without volume is worthless unless you are a niche luxury or super premium product. But then I am speculating.

[aravind.anand]

If Renault would offer a no frills Duster with essential safety features at 7L, then I would save up for it, rather than buy myself a premium hatch. But looking at Fluence, I don't have hopes of Renault offering lots of trim or variants to fit different pocket sizes. And Micra diesel keeps reminding me that Renault can do things like giving airbags without ABS!

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by raul

I have a feeling Duster will launch this year, given Renault's relative aggressiveness, the fact that the vehicle was designed for markets like ours, and the need in the market for such a vehicle its seems highly unlikely they will push it to end 2012 if they want volumes and establish themselves.

Unlikely because of the below reasons [which I think ]

1. Renault is trying to build a premium brand image to totally spruce up after the Logan chapter.

2. Koleos will be a CBU [as I understand] and hence they can still pitch it as a premium SUV, the brand value will improve.

3. Duster [will not be a premium offering] should be ideally manufactured in India, CKD or CBU will just shoot the price and Renault will not be able to pitch it against Safari / Scorp. This also would translate to a lot of time to localize the parts and finding vendors, then do all the testing. Also if they want to launch the product this year, we [someone] should start have started spotting the test mules which has not been reported.

4. Koleos would have already finished a lot of testing, and since its a CBU, it may not require extensive testing in India.

5. After the rip off, Renault would have done a lot of R&D on Indian market and would have devised a good product map / line up to make sure they win the second innings, so they may not take chances to alter their plans.

[zulfi hansi]

We are not thinking that for both Nissan & Renault the plant in Chennai is one and the same. The new car launches under the Nissan brand will also be produced there. Nissan Sunny is slated for Sep-Oct 2011 launch, so effectively Koleos and Sunny will come before end of this year. Sunny will be manufactured here, speculative pricing of it is around 6-8 lakhs, for this price point they have to manufacture it here no CKD or CBU. Koleos will be made here also, with estimated price of 14 lakhs onward (even CKD will not be easy at this price point), otherwise it will not be able to compete with heavy-waits like Fortuner and Endeavor on the price front. Also if they price it close to X-Trail, its not good for them.

Their manufacturing capabilities are not know to many. In today's news; 100000 Micra produced at their plant in Chennai, most of them were exported. With this kind of production might (expected to go up to 400000 units by year end), they can launch another 2 cars (Nissan plus 2) before end of this year.

And they are not targeting Duster with Mahindra W201, it is the Koleos that will compete with Mahindra W201.

They have the production capabilities, their market research is in place and have the right cars come to this market, they only don't have the dealer network. Could be possible that since they do not have that quintessential dealer network, it will become difficult for them to take car of the after sales for volumes cars (Duster is one of them), for that reason they want some time to prepare before its launch.

[sajo]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Also if they want to launch the product this year, we [someone] should start have started spotting the test mules which has not been reported.

Silent spectator here, but you may want to check out post # 126 on this very thread.
Heck, I can go down and "spot" it right now.

[ampere]

@Raul,

Should we be comparing W201 and Duster? Since W201 is M&M world SUV, they would gunning for a higher price range (in the range of Aria).
If Duster comes in that range, it wont sell.

The pricing order approximately should be :

Duster < Safari/Scorp < Korando < Aria/W201

[raul]

Ampere, what I have seen of the world SUV so far there doesn't appear to be anything in technology, interiors, engine, features, R&D that would justify any kind of premium pricing. Its like any other SUV produced only its being done by Mahindra, and the design is leagues ahead of the efforts so far which doesn't say much. Whether that can justify a premium is open to debate.

The segment is overpriced and the Scorpio does sell at 13-15, so difficult to tell, but I would compare it to the Duster, in terms of features and functionality. Pricing alone should not determine comparisons imho.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by raul

Ampere, what I have seen of the world SUV so far there doesn't appear to be anything in technology, interiors, engine, features, R&D that would justify any kind of premium pricing. Its like any other SUV produced only its being done by Mahindra, and the design is leagues ahead of the efforts so far which doesn't say much. Whether that can justify a premium is open to debate.

The segment is overpriced and the Scorpio does sell at 13-15, so difficult to tell, but I would compare it to the Duster, in terms of features and functionality. Pricing alone should not determine comparisons imho.

Raul I do agree to what you propose. But how would you differentiate 1.5 D of Duster versus 2.6D which is what W201 at a minimum would have. I do agree about interiors. Indian automobiles lack a big way in fit and finish.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by sajo

Silent spectator here, but you may want to check out post # 126 on this very thread.
Heck, I can go down and "spot" it right now.

Thanks, is this car always parked or is it undergoing testing? Also is it camouflaged?

Originally Posted by raul

Ampere, what I have seen of the world SUV so far there doesn't appear to be anything in technology, interiors, engine, features, R&D that would justify any kind of premium pricing.

I would say its too early to point on the features. From some report I read, M&M were doing R&D to integrate iPad into the W201 !

Originally Posted by raul

The segment is overpriced and the Scorpio does sell at 13-15, so difficult to tell, but I would compare it to the Duster, in terms of features and functionality. Pricing alone should not determine comparisons imho.

The Scorpio @ 13-15L features a lot of equipment I feel - rain sensing wipers / TPMS etc right? I think some of these are not even offered in the Safari at that price range. May be Duster can be compared to the base / mid variants of Scorpio and not the top end [someone mentioned the Duster is a bare bone SUV]. I believe a car with lesser electronics will be better in stability as well.

Originally Posted by ampere

But how would you differentiate 1.5 D of Duster versus 2.6D which is what W201 at a minimum would have.

Is W201 going to have a 2.6L unit? Again the speculation is it will have the same 2.2L Mhawk [from Scorp] which could have a higher state of tune [16-170 bhp]. Not sure on this though.

[ampere]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Is W201 going to have a 2.6L unit? Again the speculation is it will have the same 2.2L Mhawk [from Scorp] which could have a higher state of tune [16-170 bhp]. Not sure on this though.

I agree it may be a speculation.
I just wanted highlight the differences in engine capacities,

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by ampere

The pricing order approximately should be :

Duster < Safari/Scorp < Korando < Aria/W201

Car & Bike in NDTV was showing a glimpse of what Renault will be bringing in by end of 2012. They did reconfirm the fact that Duster is planned for the last part of 2012, and more important was the comment on pricing – ‘expecting Renault to price the Duster below 15 lakhs’.

If the above statement becomes a reality, it will get on the luxury end of the so-called VFM SUVs. Not very promising scenario!

[ampere]

If we get a 14L (OTR) top of line Duster with all features, 4x4 and well furnished interiors, that would be fine. Thats because, lower trims would be spec'ed cheaper.

But if its 14L ex-showroom, then yes, that would be a limit bit worrisome.

Lets keep fingers crossed!

[anb]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Is W201 going to have a 2.6L unit? Again the speculation is it will have the same 2.2L Mhawk [from Scorp] which could have a higher state of tune [16-170 bhp]. Not sure on this though.

The engine will be 2.2L Mhawk producing 140 bhp

[shankar.balan]

whichever variant of the scorpio you choose it handles like a mid size boat in a choppy sea. especially as it gets older it tends to get to you.
the ladder on frame chassis is fine upto a point but clearly the monocoque construction helps the handling and comfort.
the biggest pain is the second set of seats in the middle row - driving on our bangalore craters it really pitches and rolls a lot which is a pain. at 15.3 lacs for the top end 4WD Automatic I do feel that the Scorpio is un-necessarily over priced. It is not worth that kind of money whatever anyone may say.
the duster even if priced at an equivalent rate will offer a much better handling package with better quality engineering and electronics and safety etc.
while it is nice to hope that the duster will come in at a competitive sub 14 L price on road, it is difficult to be sure till the company releases more info. of course the Duster will be smaller than the Scorp - a proper 5 seat high GC mini SUV with luggage space.
I wish this would come quickly and I also wish Nissan would consider bringing in the Qashqai and Juke as well, for us people who need the space, functionality and high GC of an SUV in preference to a normal car.