[aaren]

I would like to add few cents' of my thoughts on the Etios esp. Sedan.

After reading many comments regarding Japanese cars, from many of the posts in Team-BHP, across many sections, let me add few cents' of my thoughts.

Japanese companies, in general, do not enter a market unless until they have analyzed the market thoroughly. Honda before they entered the US market, they sent their team to various states and parked their people literally in the parking areas in the supermarkets. These folks collected data as to what kind of items do the people cart home from markets, how much do they buy and the practices of men and women - they way they handle a car etc. before they even started designing Accord.

Matsushita, the venerable and respected company, has a 250 year goal and not just 1 year and 3 year plans. Japanese management, spend long time in planning and their way of thinking is that everyone associated with a project must have a stake in the project and that each employee has to believe and "buy in" into that project. One of my co-workers used to work in Maruti Suzuki and she has had hands on experience in the way Jap companies work. Generally, these companies will have absolute clarity on each every comma and a dot. I have also dealt with a Jap MD (he was heading one of the units of Matshushita) and from an Insurance perspective, the number of questions he asked was wide and in depth. And am glad he asked because, it gave me a chance to upgrade my own knowledge levels in Insurance. When Novino battery was introduced about 3 decades back, the Jap MD also went with the other ordinary folks in the company to do house to house sales in Baroda and he became an icon. That is their commitment levels.

Now coming to Etios, though there are naysayers, I believe that Etios will be a success. Toyota has worked hard in this project and not for nothing they conducted their India yatra - to have an in depth understanding of Indian roads and Indian driving habits and car handling manners and other related. This is not to say Germans won't do it - probably they did it for Polo and Vento. But Japs will surely do it. Remember, it was Toyota who revolutionized the Car manufacturing with their Kaizen and JIT approach and these did not come up overnight. These processes took many year to refine and mature.

And, one more point. Am also a member of Team BHP with people who are passionate about cars :-) However, I also believe that there is a large populace that is outside of this community who want a good car - meaning reliability, ability to seat 5 people, with decent creature comforts (some of it is emerging courtesy our Scoop master Sidindica), a decent powertrain and good driveability . And I do think that Toyota will hit that sweet spot to make Etios rewrite part of India's car history. May be am making a very large statement out here.

Let us consider one more factor here: The car buyer in India, has a strange and limited freedom of choices. You take Hyundai i20 - if you want a car with power you have to go for 1.4 Auto only - no choice. Vento - no middle segment. The low end segment compels you to go for the high end segment and even at that price the rear seat comfort thanks to the transmission tunnel is compromised. Why can not Indian car buyer buy a base car with an option of having ABS, Alloys, Airbags or whatever combination one wants. Honda Jazz :: similar issues. The list can go on endless.

My gut feel is that Toyota will try to address some of this aspirational issues by providing the buyer the choices (an area that is pretty large and vacant) and hit that sweet spot with a good price offering.

No offense intended to anyone but just wanted to give my take on this. Thanks for reading this post.

[DicKy]

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[raj_5004]

A friend of mine works in Toyota & he drove the Etios. He says the interiors are not upto the mark & plastic quality is downright cheap. He says the hatch would be priced at 6-6.5 lakhs & the interiors are not worth for that price.

P.S.: He is a huge toyota fan.

[rajess_in]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

A friend of mine works in Toyota & he drove the Etios. He says the interiors are not upto the mark & plastic quality is downright cheap. He says the hatch would be priced at 6-6.5 lakhs & the interiors are not worth for that price.

Really disappointed to hear this. If the interior quality is not upto the mark, then there is no scope for success for the products.

Toyota can command a premium (not more than Rs. 25000/- IMO) over the competition for its brand reputation & quality. If the promised quality is not there, then they will never succeed.

At 6-6.5 Lakhs, the hatch should exceed the quality of the i20 to be successful (taking i20 as benchmark from its sales in the premium hatch segment). If not, it would be another Jazz from the Toyota stable.

[indivic]

Originally Posted by rajess_in

At 6-6.5 Lakhs, the hatch should exceed the quality of the i20 to be successful (taking i20 as benchmark from its sales in the premium hatch segment). If not, it would be another Jazz from the Toyota stable.

We have some conflicting reports/scoops/guesses on this forum, Sid estimates circa 4.5L for the sedan, however raj_5004 says the hatch would be 6-6.5L according to his friend.

My guess is that Toyota were/are looking at 5-7L range, this was obvious when the interviewer a few months ago asked me if I would be interested if the car was priced between 5-7L, he did not mention any other price range after I had told him that I was open to both hatch and sedan depending on which one fitted my budget and which came out first.

This is the range in which the Swift,Ritz,Vista,Dzire,Manza are currently. So your expectation of 25k premium over competitors could still come true. With respect to plastic quality, we have to see first hand before we can conclude or wait for our official TBHP reviews

And the hatch is smaller than i20 (in length atleast), it is on par with Swift/Figo/Vista size in terms of LxWxH according to the dimensions on the Toyota website.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by rajess_in

Really disappointed to hear this. If the interior quality is not upto the mark, then there is no scope for success for the products.

Toyota can command a premium (not more than Rs. 25000/- IMO) over the competition for its brand reputation & quality. If the promised quality is not there, then they will never succeed.

At 6-6.5 Lakhs, the hatch should exceed the quality of the i20 to be successful (taking i20 as benchmark from its sales in the premium hatch segment). If not, it would be another Jazz from the Toyota stable.

I would still say it would sell in huge numbers, even if its priced at 6.5 lakhs. why? because its a toyota!

[indivic]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

I would still say it would sell in huge numbers, even if its priced at 6.5 lakhs. why? because its a toyota!

The Altis diesel has not been that successful, most of us did predict that the public would overlook the size of the engine, lower performance as compared to competitors etc. , just for the Toyota badge. However the Cruze still is the one to beat.

September
Cruze : 847 , Corolla : 1082

October
Cruze : 957, Corolla : 952

Toyota have hinted that they will play the pricing game, I read an interview on Business Standard about the Etios

The Etios brief

so they are beware of pricing it out of the market, atleast initially

Read the para "The right price"

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

I would still say it would sell in huge numbers, even if its priced at 6.5 lakhs. why? because its a toyota!

That's not necessarily true. I remember comments on this forum from some members back in May-June '09 that Jazz will outsell i20 and Punto put together 2:1. Why? Because it's a Honda!

Well, a little over 15 months later, i20 outsells Jazz something like 20:1, and I think even Punto has outsold Jazz 3:1 almost every month since its launch.

[raj_5004]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

That's not necessarily true. I remember comments on this forum from some members back in May-June '09 that Jazz will outsell i20 and Punto put together 2:1. Why? Because it's a Honda!

Well, a little over 15 months later, i20 outsells Jazz something like 20:1, and I think even Punto has outsold Jazz 3:1 almost every month since its launch.

well, i would say thats because the Jazz is more expensive than the i20 but offers much lesser in comparison. also, the Jazz is not available with a diesel engine.

I do feel almost all toyota products in India are overpriced but still they do sell well because of it's reliability factor & brand image.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by raj_5004

well, i would say thats because the Jazz is more expensive than the i20 but offers much lesser in comparison. also, the Jazz is not available with a diesel engine.

In other words, i20 offers more value.

Now, if the interiors of the Etios are not up to the mark and it is not a well-spec'ed as the i20, which will offer more value to the customer - especially if the price is around 6.5L, which is only about 40K less than top-spec diesel i20?

And, by the way, the diesel option is not the reason why i20 outsells Jazz. I think 70% of the i20s sold are petrol versions. So even if you consider just the petrol versions, i20 outsells Jazz by a handsome margin.

[raj_5004]

yes, i am sure the i20 will be more VFM but i still do feel the etios will sell well even if its priced at 6.5L for reasons mentioned above.

[noopster]

Got an email newsletter from cardekho.com that goes:
"The good news or rather the most awaited one is finally knocking the doors of the Indian car market. Toyota Etios, one of the most speculated launch of the year is now officially going to take place on 1st December in Bangalore. Toyota Etios sedan would be launched initially and the hatchback would follow soon. The car is expected to be shelved in the range of 6.5 to 9 Lacs and is sure to lure the Indian car buyer's fantasies."
That's not too different from the Vento (launched at 6.99 ex-showroom Delhi for the lowest variant). Am glad I went ahead and boked the VW! Not that this was ever seriously in my consideration set, anyway.

[SPARKled]

Toyota is gunning for the Dezire and the Manza which make up for the bulk of the sales in that segment. And suddenly, IMHO people are going to rush to Toyota showrooms, abandoning the 'reliable' and 'low maintenance' Maruti, to buy that superb 1.4 D-4D turbo diesel Etios sedan which in spite of being no looker, is still a handsome hunk compared to the Dzire or even the Manza. A sure shot winner from the Toyota stable if you ask me.

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by SPARKled

Toyota is gunning for the Dezire and the Manza which make up for the bulk of the sales in that segment. And suddenly, IMHO people are going to rush to Toyota showrooms, abandoning the 'reliable' and 'low maintenance' Maruti, to buy that superb 1.4 D-4D turbo diesel Etios sedan which in spite of being no looker, is still a handsome hunk compared to the Dzire or even the Manza. A sure shot winner from the Toyota stable if you ask me.

SPARKled, do not forget that Toyota in India is considered more reliable than many, & in fact it still better buy than the Suzuki in US. Add to this the fact the comments for Dzire like "Swift with a spanked/ swollen rear" to "plain ugly", will only make the life easier for Etios Sedan. But, I don't think that the diesel will be launched too soon.

The pricing seems to be of the petrol sedan. I think Toyota are confident that Etios will better what the City did for Honda.

[SPARKled]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

SPARKled, do not forget that Toyota in India is considered more reliable than many, & in fact it still better buy than the Suzuki in US. Add to this the fact the comments for Dzire like "Swift with a spanked/ swollen rear" to "plain ugly", will only make the life easier for Etios Sedan. But, I don't think that the diesel will be launched too soon.

The pricing seems to be of the petrol sedan. I think Toyota are confident that Etios will better what the City did for Honda.

I dont think the typical buyer in this segment is a very choosy buyer and he prefers to give practicality more importance than anything else. If people really though about swollen rears and plain uglys, the dzire would not have been the king of its segment with a long waiting list. The petrol Etios will be just another option but the real chart buster will be the diesel. Just look at the demand for the Vdi and the Zdi dzires. Toyota has to price the diesel sensibly and ensure that it is at least as roomy as the dzire even if it can match the Manza in space.