Fiat at the Auto Expo 2010

channelv · 11th January 2010, 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutsNBolts

I don't think sports version introduction comprises of just increase of bhp. There are other additions that the manufacturer is ready to provide, which are, different alloys, leather seats, sunroof, interior panel trim, body decals etc..

True, Punto sport comes with other add ons which makes it looks hot but Fiat could have also given an option of T-Jet so as to make it a true hot hatch.

No complains though, I myself drive a Lancer which is under powered but driven more sportier than most other powerful cars just because of its driving dynamics. I have also felt, Punto/Linea's road behavior on similar lines.

Think about it, I should be thankful to Fiat for bringing a more powerful engine and call Punto, "Sport" and not following the normal norm by other manufactures of calling a model sport just cos the vehicle now "sports" a spoiler and some decals and sometimes skirts.

deepakhon · 11th January 2010, 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by opendro

BTW, I have been longing to measure 0-100 in my Linea. The only place I can think of in Bangalore is NICE road.

If someone has an iphone, they could use this iphone app pocketdyno, which will give you the 0-62mph timings. I believe this is fairly accurate. And, NICE road is a good choice. It is one straight boring road

.

theEnd · 11th January 2010, 23:43

Calling it the Grande Punto "Sport" means that it should be fast.

The fast engine is the TJet.

Can nobody at Fiat put 2 and 2 together?

Whose IQ test has come back negative? Whose brain is illegally parked?

gomzi · 12th January 2010, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by theEnd

Whose IQ test has come back negative? Whose brain is illegally parked?

That's a good one! Cracking me up at 12am

True. They should have put in the TJet. after all they already have the engine with them.
Well, I hope someone there is listening.

NutsNBolts · 12th January 2010, 08:15

I don't know if someone's brain is parked legally or illegally, but here is an interesting article I found about what constitutes a sports or sporty version of a car (Courtesy Definition of a Sports Cars) :

A simple definition of a sports car is "a small low car with a high-powered engine, and generally seats two people". This is more or less a "textbook" definition but gives us an idea of what the public perceives to be a sports car.

The Houghton Mifflin dictionary defines a sports car as: "An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds". This dictionary definition does not seem to capture the general perception of what the public sees as a sports car.

The Houghton Mifflin definition of the "two seat rule" seems out-of-date. Many sports cars today offer small back seats (sometimes referred to as 2+2 seating) and there is a current movement underway to increase the seating room in models long considered sports cars by most automotive experts.

Insurance companies use their own formula in classifying automobiles and often the presence of two doors automatically makes any car a "sports car" in their eyes. This perspective, of course, is as overly simplistic as the standard dictionary approach to defining a sports car. One can certainly think of any number of two door vehicles that fall far short of being an actual sports car. Economy cars and even larger two-door vehicles that are not built with power and performance in mind should not qualify as true sports cars.

Some car buffs will refer to high-performance muscle cars and other larger vehicles as sports cars. Others, however, draw a distinction between these vehicles and "true" sports cars. These individuals will claim that a car can be a "sporting car" or simply "sporty" but still fall short of being a true sports car. Thus, "regular" cars may be outfitted with a "sports package" and/or accessories to make the car sportier, but may not fit a strict definition of a sports car.

Others will maintain that the distinction between a sports car and any other type of car lies in how the car's suspension and handling are addressed. Technical debates rage over whether various suspension packages qualify as belonging to true "sports cars".

Some will argue that a sports car can be defined by its intentions. If the car is designed for performance more so than for utility, they say, it is a sports car. This intent-based definition, however, provides little guidance in determining whether a car is a sports car or not. Particularly in the modern era, the notion of designing a car of any sort without significant consideration of its feasibility and utility seems unlikely. Any commercially viable vehicle, regardless of its performance, must retain significant utility.

Road and Track, a leading automotive publication, summarizes the sports card definition debate with a simple observation: "Ask five people the exact definition of a sports car, and you'll likely get five different answers".

There is no clear-cut definition of what really is a sports car. The restrictive definitions of the past seem ill suited to categorize today's' diverse automotive offerings and common usage of the term runs contrary to most long-held definitions.

There is, however, a common thought that seems to run through almost all of the outlooks on the meaning of "sports car". If a car is designed with high performance or race-like capabilities in mind, it can probably be safely termed a sports car. Some purists may balk at such a liberal perspective, but alternative definitions fall far short of accurately distinguishing sports cars form regular production models.

brar.arsh · 12th January 2010, 08:31

kapil the car described in various articles will not come for 6.5 lacs, if you really want a sports car, go for ferrari or something. This is just a way of selling a fully equiped hatchbach with a name of sports car.

NutsNBolts · 12th January 2010, 08:51

Brar, I understand your point. But you seem to have missed the point of my post.

This post was in response to someone debating whether the Punto introduced in Auto Expo 2010 can be called sports or not. My previous post is just what I found on the net regarding various definitions of sports car in today's world. And if I could afford a Ferrari, I would not be proposing any arguments for its sportiness

khan75 · 12th January 2010, 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutsNBolts

A simple definition of a sports car is "a small low car with a high-powered engine, and generally seats two people". This is more or less a "textbook" definition but gives us an idea of what the public perceives to be a sports car.

No car assembled in India satisfies that definition. Sporty yes, but none of them are sports cars. What you're probably dreaming of is a Porsche or Ferrari.

@brar.arsh: There are few cars available in the US for that kind of money that are true sports cars: Honda S2000 is the one that springs to my mind.

Musicmaker23 · 12th January 2010, 09:32

I'd found it very weird to see that none of the car shows had even mentioned Fiat at their Auto Expo specials. Thanks GTO for the great pics & info.
The t-jet wasn't a great surprize from Fiat, though they may boost sales of the Punto with the sports variant (& yes, i too hated the body art & the unnecessary juvenile red trim in the interiors). I wonder how much of a premium they'll command.
The linea automatic would make great sense in city driving & should make a lot of potential buyers wait till it hits the road.

Personally, i felt Fiat could've done a lot more to display their interest in the Indian market by at least showcasing a few more cars to gauge consumer response to the brand. They can't just rest on their laurels with the GP & linea

brar.arsh · 12th January 2010, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutsNBolts

Brar, I understand your point. But you seem to have missed the point of my post.

This post was in response to someone debating whether the Punto introduced in Auto Expo 2010 can be called sports or not. My previous post is just what I found on the net regarding various definitions of sports car in today's world. And if I could afford a Ferrari, I would not be proposing any arguments for its sportiness

Kapil dont take it personally man, i was just going through various blogs where people were just saying "Punto sports is not sports, bla bla.."
So i just posted a comment over here.
Actually that doesnt makes sense if FIAT introduces 150 bhp engine in punto and make it two seater and then keeps it price around 10 lacs.
Nobody is going to buy that, same thing happened with Fabia, though it was not sports version but everything was good but price tag was even higher than Fiesta's mid variant. So we have very less buyers for such cars.
And companies are here to increase sale numbers and make cars which satisfies the masses.
I hope i am not wrong.

VahanPujari · 12th January 2010, 11:28

What an enlightening discussion on the name of GP Sports & whether it should have been named "Sports" or not. Till now, I guess quite a few cars & Two wheelers have been badged as "Sports". But can't remember such discussions for any.

ddriver · 12th January 2010, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by VahanPujari

What an enlightening discussion on the name of GP Sports & whether it should have been named "Sports" or not. Till now, I guess quite a few cars & Two wheelers have been badged as "Sports". But can't remember such discussions for any.

Rightly said! but that also shows the interest and inquisitive behaviour of people in the brand and which is good thing for Fiat

. As it is said that too much of discussion on a topic automatically leads to brand curiosity

sharma_sanjeevi · 12th January 2010, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddriver

Rightly said! but that also shows the interest and inquisitive behaviour of people in the brand and which is good thing for Fiat

. As it is said that too much of discussion on a topic automatically leads to brand curiosity

+1 to that, but sadly, the enthusiasm vanishes when it comes to numbers or dosent translates into Sales. Don't know why ?

ddriver · 12th January 2010, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharma_sanjeevi

+1 to that, but sadly, the enthusiasm vanishes when it comes to numbers or dosent translates into Sales. Don't know why ?

i guess the number which fiat shows in selling punto and lineas especially is impressive enough, keeping in view their past performance with regard to *** and also to capitalise on brand image need some time after all. i am sure it will achieve that with upcoming T-jet model and GP sport and with 1.6mjd or may be in upcoming year, so one can see its looking promising both for fiat and us

channelv · 12th January 2010, 15:21

We Indians with cost still being one of the biggest criteria don't expect GP to come with a 150bhp engine but FIAT could have given an option of T-Jet for GP Sport.

There are many cars which if planned properly would have been a success for the company.
1) Chevy SRV diesel (magnum engine and a good gearbox) - Nobody complained about its looks.
2) Lancer with a 90bhp diesel engine - Same shell and similar suspension
3) Swift with a 1.6L petrol - Lot of people would have just loved some more power in Swift.
There are many more examples if you think about it.

These vehicle could have been released by their respective company without much of extra investments. I feel FIAT also could miss out the goodwill and pedigree it had with its hot hatch Palio 1.6 GTX, if they do not release T-Jet on GP.

11th January 2010, 23:43	#153
theEnd BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 534 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	Calling it the Grande Punto "Sport" means that it should be fast. The fast engine is the TJet. Can nobody at Fiat put 2 and 2 together? Whose IQ test has come back negative? Whose brain is illegally parked?
	() Thanks

12th January 2010, 08:15	#155
NutsNBolts BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Jammu Posts: 817 Thanked: 41 Times View My Garage	I don't know if someone's brain is parked legally or illegally, but here is an interesting article I found about what constitutes a sports or sporty version of a car (Courtesy Definition of a Sports Cars) : A simple definition of a sports car is "a small low car with a high-powered engine, and generally seats two people". This is more or less a "textbook" definition but gives us an idea of what the public perceives to be a sports car. The Houghton Mifflin dictionary defines a sports car as: "An automobile equipped for racing, especially an aerodynamically shaped one-passenger or two-passenger vehicle having a low center of gravity and steering and suspension designed for precise control at high speeds". This dictionary definition does not seem to capture the general perception of what the public sees as a sports car. The Houghton Mifflin definition of the "two seat rule" seems out-of-date. Many sports cars today offer small back seats (sometimes referred to as 2+2 seating) and there is a current movement underway to increase the seating room in models long considered sports cars by most automotive experts. Insurance companies use their own formula in classifying automobiles and often the presence of two doors automatically makes any car a "sports car" in their eyes. This perspective, of course, is as overly simplistic as the standard dictionary approach to defining a sports car. One can certainly think of any number of two door vehicles that fall far short of being an actual sports car. Economy cars and even larger two-door vehicles that are not built with power and performance in mind should not qualify as true sports cars. Some car buffs will refer to high-performance muscle cars and other larger vehicles as sports cars. Others, however, draw a distinction between these vehicles and "true" sports cars. These individuals will claim that a car can be a "sporting car" or simply "sporty" but still fall short of being a true sports car. Thus, "regular" cars may be outfitted with a "sports package" and/or accessories to make the car sportier, but may not fit a strict definition of a sports car. Others will maintain that the distinction between a sports car and any other type of car lies in how the car's suspension and handling are addressed. Technical debates rage over whether various suspension packages qualify as belonging to true "sports cars". Some will argue that a sports car can be defined by its intentions. If the car is designed for performance more so than for utility, they say, it is a sports car. This intent-based definition, however, provides little guidance in determining whether a car is a sports car or not. Particularly in the modern era, the notion of designing a car of any sort without significant consideration of its feasibility and utility seems unlikely. Any commercially viable vehicle, regardless of its performance, must retain significant utility. Road and Track, a leading automotive publication, summarizes the sports card definition debate with a simple observation: "Ask five people the exact definition of a sports car, and you'll likely get five different answers". There is no clear-cut definition of what really is a sports car. The restrictive definitions of the past seem ill suited to categorize today's' diverse automotive offerings and common usage of the term runs contrary to most long-held definitions. There is, however, a common thought that seems to run through almost all of the outlooks on the meaning of "sports car". If a car is designed with high performance or race-like capabilities in mind, it can probably be safely termed a sports car. Some purists may balk at such a liberal perspective, but alternative definitions fall far short of accurately distinguishing sports cars form regular production models. Last edited by NutsNBolts : 12th January 2010 at 08:19.
	() Thanks

12th January 2010, 08:31	#156
brar.arsh BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: PATIALA/CHD/PUNE/Noida Posts: 107 Thanked: 4 Times	kapil the car described in various articles will not come for 6.5 lacs, if you really want a sports car, go for ferrari or something. This is just a way of selling a fully equiped hatchbach with a name of sports car.
	() Thanks

12th January 2010, 08:51	#157
NutsNBolts BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Jammu Posts: 817 Thanked: 41 Times View My Garage	Brar, I understand your point. But you seem to have missed the point of my post. This post was in response to someone debating whether the Punto introduced in Auto Expo 2010 can be called sports or not. My previous post is just what I found on the net regarding various definitions of sports car in today's world. And if I could afford a Ferrari, I would not be proposing any arguments for its sportiness
	() Thanks

12th January 2010, 09:32	#159
Musicmaker23 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 145 Thanked: 9 Times	I'd found it very weird to see that none of the car shows had even mentioned Fiat at their Auto Expo specials. Thanks GTO for the great pics & info. The t-jet wasn't a great surprize from Fiat, though they may boost sales of the Punto with the sports variant (& yes, i too hated the body art & the unnecessary juvenile red trim in the interiors). I wonder how much of a premium they'll command. The linea automatic would make great sense in city driving & should make a lot of potential buyers wait till it hits the road. Personally, i felt Fiat could've done a lot more to display their interest in the Indian market by at least showcasing a few more cars to gauge consumer response to the brand. They can't just rest on their laurels with the GP & linea
	() Thanks

12th January 2010, 11:28	#161
VahanPujari BANNED Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,308 Thanked: 8 Times	What an enlightening discussion on the name of GP Sports & whether it should have been named "Sports" or not. Till now, I guess quite a few cars & Two wheelers have been badged as "Sports". But can't remember such discussions for any.
	() Thanks

12th January 2010, 15:21	#165
channelv BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kochi Posts: 159 Thanked: 60 Times	We Indians with cost still being one of the biggest criteria don't expect GP to come with a 150bhp engine but FIAT could have given an option of T-Jet for GP Sport. There are many cars which if planned properly would have been a success for the company. 1) Chevy SRV diesel (magnum engine and a good gearbox) - Nobody complained about its looks. 2) Lancer with a 90bhp diesel engine - Same shell and similar suspension 3) Swift with a 1.6L petrol - Lot of people would have just loved some more power in Swift. There are many more examples if you think about it. These vehicle could have been released by their respective company without much of extra investments. I feel FIAT also could miss out the goodwill and pedigree it had with its hot hatch Palio 1.6 GTX, if they do not release T-Jet on GP.
	() Thanks