Team-BHP (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/)

-   The Indian Car Scene (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/)

-   -   What about the Lexus' and the Infiniti's? (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian-car-scene/75673-what-about-lexus-infinitis-2.html)

Lexus, Infiniti and Acura are robustly engineered and are no less in any way than Merc, BMW and Audi. However, these brands do not have the same image among Inidians as the German cars have. Also, with their prices being in the proximity of German cars, most people will prefer German cars. Lexus is better known among these three but Infifniti and Acura are relatively little known.

Quite right here. Bulk of Indians are unfamiliar with these brand names. And in spite of their cars being marginally superior to their German counterparts, they are bound to be as pricey as the German marques. The reason being, they are likely to be CBU in India. The price conscious Indian will scratch his head, Rs 50+ lakh for a Lexus (??) or a Mercedes. He will be like, Hey the Merc comes from Germany = better car. Lets go for it. Thus the Germans at the end of the day will have the edge, because brand name matters.

There is most certainly a market for these cars. One must understand however, that these cars will only start making their way here once the flag ship sedans of Toyota/Nissan come down in price - AKA indigenous manufacturing. Once this happens, there is a nice wide gap in the 28-40 lac bracket for them to occupy. It will happen. Only thing is, it will take a long time before we can expect to start seeing G37's and ES's LS's etc in India !!

I have come across many posts out here that say a luxury car buyer wouldn't have heard of Lexus or Infiniti, and I beg to disagree.
A person paying Rs50L + for a car, would definitely have traveled around the world, and would definitely know about Lexus and Infiniti being up there with Mercedes and BMW.
The only thing that would stop them from buying it would be that majority of the population wouldn't have heard of these brand names, but that didn't stop people from buying BMW's and Porsche's and Audi's right?
I believe that Lexus would do well in India, and I too would prefer a Lexus over a German for reliability sakes, but then the superior dynamics and feeling of a German is quite different.

At nutcracker: 1 reason you don't see people discussing too much about Lexus and Infiniti is because they haven't been launched officially in the Indian car market, and once they are, you will definitely see a lot more posts.
I really wonder why Toyota and Nissan haven't launched these brands. Even though they are premium brands themselves, it is of no doubt that these brands will be positioned higher and in-line with Mercedes and Audi and BMW.

The average Indian doesn't know much about Infiniti (and that its the luxury segment of Nissan), but I think people do know a tab bit more about Lexus (do they know that the parent company is Toyoto, I'm not sure). Acura is another brand on the same lines, and I find NRIs to be more into Acura & Lexus, and hardly any drive Infiniti vehicles. The biggest concern for a person importing these makes,ought to be service and parts since these brands haven't entered the Indian market yet.

All of the nissan and Toyota models are already over priced in INDIA. On top of that if they were to bring their respective luxury brands to india, it is most possibly going to fail.

Only volkswagen is positioned well with almost all of their brands doing business here starting from Skoda to VW to Audi to Porsche. But they are also not in the volume segment yet.

IMO India as a market is not yet ready for the Luxury brands like Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, etc. since their parent brands themselves are not doing enough volumes.

Since these cars were primarily designed for US, they are mostly petrol.

Lack of diesels is a problem for both. Lexus has one for the IS, thats it. Infinity is rumoured to be working with Renault on one.

You can say that again, DKG. The LS460 makes a 7 series feel, dare I say, noisy? :)

I think Lexus can still pull it off, with the right marketing support of course. However, Acura (uninspiring products & image) and Infinity (Nissan has yet to set a proper base in India!!) have low possibility of success.

To start with, the reliability of a Lexus is Toyota-like (I know I know, probably not the best time to use this term in the eye of recent recalls, but you know what I mean :))

A Lexus will be far more trouble-free to own than any of the German marques over 5 / 7 / 10 years. With the Germans having lost their reliability since the nineties, this is Lexus' USP. Period.

Thank, I have noted your comments.

I also undeerstand that these are more reliable. But, these are essentially Petrol & Petrol+Hybrid drivetrains. Whereas the germans have efficient & powerful diesel engines in their arsenal. With over INR 10 difference in Petrol Vrs Diesel, the more you drive a diesel car the more you save over petrol.

Then not all people have knowledge of these brands, probably 10% have. In India these 90% ignorant (of the brand) people will cause the resale of the Germans on the Higher side.

The parent companies of these Japanese brands are already charging a premium for their original brands (say Landcruiser selling over INR 80 lacs, even the mediocre X-Trail selling well over INR 20 lacs), apart from the premium charges in name of service costs. I really doubt these will be in a position to price reasonably.

OT : I'm a die-hard Toyota fan, & it pains me to see them in the position they are in these days, but, it is can be explained by the old Japanese saying -
"if it stinks, put a lid on it".

Lets us hope for the best.

Lexus IS are pretty rare in Europe, but as you rightly said, majority of most cars are diesels. I had a chance to spot this IS 220D a couple of years back at Brussels.

The talk of Lexus reliability in the Indian context is purely speculative. In the Indian scheme of things with the kind of dust, weather and roads, a precision tool like Lexus is more likely to go wrong then say in Europe or America.

@GTO checked out the G37 thread. It's awfully GORGEOUS (in a good way i.e.). You have good taste. And yes, the LS is a real treat again, some on them come in those 'Pearl finish' paint, which is offered only on the Lexus LS and LX series, and a Cadillac Escalade. Belive that?

The Pearl Finish turns around 90% heads, no kidding.

Regarding the upkeep costs of a Lexus, I have heard that the first year of ownership is difficult, but the moment it crosses some 40-50k kilometers, it'll be as reliable as out City's and Corrollas. Its true. A luxury such as an LX570, and upkeep costs like Fortuner, something is an unsolved mystery and has kept the Germans guessing for decades.

Very true. The lack of competent / wide range of diesels will be a Jap premium brand's largest disadvantage. But hey, what's stopping them from developing large capacity common-rails? As of today, I agree. I'd pick the C220 over a C200 and the E350 CDI over the E350 petrol.

The weather on the East Coast is about 10X harsher than what we see in Indian metros. Think -30 in the winter and +30 in the summer. And most of Boston's roads reminded me of our good ol' Mumbai. Toyota's are just as reliable in India, no? Ask any Qualis / Innova owner. And even in the USA, in the same driving conditions, a 12 year old '97 Lexus has been reported as being more reliable than a 2008 S Class.

Absolutely. I simply don't understand why a more expensive car should break down more often than a cheaper car. If you add more gizmos, just make as hell sure that they work!

I know as a fact that when I was in Dubai, a few of my friends who bought 10 year old models of BMW's and Merc's were always in a cash fix. A close friend of mine bought a 1997 Lexus LS220 in 2008. The car was a charm. He still owns it, and its his primary car, he has a 2008 Accord, which he barely even touches.

Please dont put words in my mouth. I am only talking about Lexus here. Innova and Qualis especially is as reliable as sun and although I am big fan of European cars, Toyota is one manufacturer which I respect for the sheer engineering that goes into their products.