Now steering problems with Corolla - Toyota mulls recall!

A350XWB · 17th February 2010, 21:35

Being in the automotive industry, especially dealing with the electronic controls of systems, I will not put 100% blind faith in any manufacturer. I have my own reasons for that.
And regarding the mention of the AF447 crash - The airline indiustry is much more regulated than the automobile industry and you just cannot compare the two. If an airliner is found to have faulty parts or misbehaving systems, the authorities can even go to the extend of grounding the entire fleet. This does not happen in case of cars.

R2D2 · 17th February 2010, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by A350XWB

Being in the automotive industry, especially dealing with the electronic controls of systems, I will not put 100% blind faith in any manufacturer. I have my own reasons for that.
And regarding the mention of the AF447 crash - The airline indiustry is much more regulated than the automobile industry and you just cannot compare the two. If an airliner is found to have faulty parts or misbehaving systems, the authorities can even go to the extend of grounding the entire fleet. This does not happen in case of cars.

Being in the computer industry I can tell you for sure that software and electronics (read computers) are not the best combination for reliability.

The airline industry grounds a fleet because a single air crash can lead to the loss of 100s of lives. You see, there's not much you can do when a machine malfunctions at 35000 feet and at 600 mph.

A car can be controlled better. Accelerator stuck? In a MT use the clutch and switch off the engine. Automatics are a little dicey. Partial solution stamp on the brakes and switch off the engine.

The chances of surviving an aircraft crash are very low when compared with a car crash.

Cheers!

-NUT-case · 17th February 2010, 21:43

That video was horrible to watch. Imagine being helpless to save your family. All these high tech cars scare the crap out of me. Give me practical mechanical parts anytime. BTW i think all these newer computer controlled cars should have an emergency KILLSWITCH that can be pressed to override all electronics and bring the car to a stop. There has to be a failsafe system especially when the 3 most important controls of the car(Acceleratot,Brake and Steering) are in the hands of a tiny chip. Its like literally putting your life in the hands of a computer. And cars like lexus can even be remotely accessed by a person other than the one driving it.

scary.

@ R2D2 .. if you see the video of the 911 call , you see that his accelerator is stuck and he has no brakes. "there's no brakes" he says. Floor mats making the pedals get stuck - My @SS. Toyota is hiding a major software glitch if you ask me.

srh · 17th February 2010, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

1) May be the report is wrong, but considering the numbers that Toyota does, the percentage of defective vehicles or the number of accidents is quite low.

In our country we have more problems per 100 vehicles which is a quality concern in the first place. With Innova, qualis Toyota has proved that its vehicles do run for a long period without issues.

10 million is a big number even in percentage terms

Secondly, Toyota honesty is all bull ****. They refused to acknowledge the issue for a long time. Only after the regulator forced them, did they issue a recall.

R2D2 · 17th February 2010, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by srh

Secondly, Toyota honesty is all bull ****. They refused to acknowledge the issue for a long time. Only after the regulator forced them, did they issue a recall.

Agreed. The entire episode stinks of Toyota trying to conceal the facts and only working to resolve the issue after the US Govt twisted their arms.

Cheers!

nishant_242 · 17th February 2010, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

1) Take a look at this article.

Source : Toyota rules out electronics as unintended acceleration cause - report

Article :

Clearly this proves that Toyota's electricals are not an issue. May be the report is wrong, but considering the numbers that Toyota does, the percentage of defective vehicles or the number of accidents is quite low.

In our country we have more problems per 100 vehicles which is a quality concern in the first place. With Innova, qualis Toyota has proved that its vehicles do run for a long period without issues.

2) Why bring Tata into this ? And how many recalls Tata has done till now ? And if I am not wrong, we have one thread running as " Protest Against Tata motors " where in Tata did not care to replace the vehicle.

Toyota is honest and is after all giving recalls. They did even in India for Innova for some issue related to rear axle or something.

Toyota vehicles are still reliable and durable if the article mentioned above is true.

Elsewhere in International car scene I had posted an article on how Toyota had answered the questions raised by some media in US.

ha ha...Toyota is being honest about the recalls...
The problem of faulty accelerator pedals (or Floor mats as initially suggested by Toyota

) has been reported by NHTSC since 2004. After contiuous denial and precious lost lives did Toyota wake up and take notice. After govt. pressure onky they were forced to recall their vehicles. If this is reliability and durability then

A350XWB · 17th February 2010, 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2D2

Being in the computer industry I can tell you for sure that software and electronics (read computers) are not the best combination for reliability.

I beg to differ. If this was the case, we would not have invested in all the technologies which goes under the hood of a car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2D2

The airline industry grounds a fleet because a single air crash can lead to the loss of 100s of lives. You see, there's not much you can do when a machine malfunctions at 35000 feet and at 600 mph.

A car can be controlled better. Accelerator stuck? In a MT use the clutch and switch off the engine. Automatics are a little dicey. Partial solution stamp on the brakes and switch off the engine.

Depends on case by case. There were lots of airline crashes with survivors and lots of car crashes without survivors. Depends on the situation and how lucky you are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R2D2

The chances of surviving an aircraft crash are very low when compared with a car crash.

I don't think it can be generalized. It depends on case by case as I've stated above.

R2D2 · 17th February 2010, 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by A350XWB

I beg to differ. If this was the case, we would not have invested in all the technologies which goes under the hood of a car.

I do not deny that electronics have their place and advantages too. IMHO the only technology that needs to go in is the engine management, ignition and fuel injection. I'd prefer to have a physical connection either rods, cables, gears or hydraulic systems in all driving controls viz accelerator, steering, brake and clutch. At no time should the a control be able to overide the driver's decision. That's precisely what happened with the stuck accelerator pedal.

Rgds,

raul · 18th February 2010, 00:08

This is not a Toyota vs x issue, this is a consumer issue and as informed consumers we should be at the forefront seeking accountability. I don't have a Toyota but if i did i would be very worried, especially given our attitude to safety here, shouldn't a regulatory body in India be seeking answers from Toyota and protecting consumer interests because companies rarely do that on their own without regulation.

Pretending as if everything is ok or brushing things under the carpet to deflect criticism which Toyota deserves for the way they have handled this literally being forced to acknowledge a multitude the defects is pure callousness.

Expectations are high from Toyota because of tqm and now to see it come apart like this should worry as consumers and auto lovers about the company. This is the company that has set standards and is the global no 1, clearly this is reflective of some major deterioration in their operations. This is not the time to defend Toyota, we should be concerned.

shortbread · 18th February 2010, 01:51

Hahaha.....the irony, when I opened up this thread here (based in the UK now), the ad box on top actually shows a message from Toyota that 'Has your Toyota been affected by a recall?'
Toyota has made a huge mess of this issue. Strangely even newbie car makers resolve manufacturing complaints in due course when the respective cars come in for service. This is not the first time that Toyota has had to recall its cars, its latest gen, enviro. flagship Prius has been riddled with problems from day 1, well before the accidents or deaths. But this is not the first or last time that a car manufacturer will make a product with defects and then try to rectify it.
Toyota somehow tried to wash their hands of this issue and then fell flat on its face. This is a car maker which is not exactly well known for exciting or beautiful vehicles, but mostly for reliable and good quality ones. They have taken a huge blow to this image.
But that said Im very sure that Toyota will come out stronger from this ugly mess.

Amartya · 18th February 2010, 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

1)
Toyota is honest and is after all giving recalls.

Do you "honestly" believe that? As per the reports, the first complain of a similar nature was reported close to 6 years back. Don't let Toyota PR fool you into thinking that they were being honest, they were forced to recall, and that too after being reponsible for grievous injuries.

1-Testosterone · 18th February 2010, 13:24

Irrespective of what TOYOTA has achieved during past few decades, these incidents have indeed dented their popularity and badge of providing "World's most reliable cars". With all those QCD's around, there is no such excuse of multiple failures.

sameer551 · 18th February 2010, 13:48

I would stand by the quality and reliability of an Toyota vehicle. I own a Toyota Camry 2000 model here in US and have taken her to limits in all roads bad, good, and the car has never disappointed me. The quality of its part and mileage is really great. Its just that they got into picture for few bad incidents and they are doing the recall. But I can bet all car manufacturers can have such issues here and there.
I believe in toyota and its one of the best. I would always buy a toyota in India as well if budget permits!!!

recshenoy · 18th February 2010, 15:11

OT:

Agreed that there is problem with Toyota. But how about other manufacturers who say “obsessed with quality” “Das Auto” etc? Are they so perfect that everything is spick and span at their end!

Or is it that Toyota is getting noticed due to large number of recalls and back to back failures?

rjalihal · 18th February 2010, 15:39

I do not think Toyota is to be blamed entirely. A lot of their parts are outsourced to other manufacturers. teh same holds for the power steering assembly. So all cars which were fixed by that particular outsourced company's equipment are the ones being recalled. Technically its not Toyota's fault, its the outsourced company's fault. Toyota should scrutinize the factories who make parts on behalf of Toyota.

17th February 2010, 21:35	#16
A350XWB BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: KA51/KL03 Posts: 923 Thanked: 861 Times	Being in the automotive industry, especially dealing with the electronic controls of systems, I will not put 100% blind faith in any manufacturer. I have my own reasons for that. And regarding the mention of the AF447 crash - The airline indiustry is much more regulated than the automobile industry and you just cannot compare the two. If an airliner is found to have faulty parts or misbehaving systems, the authorities can even go to the extend of grounding the entire fleet. This does not happen in case of cars.
	() Thanks

17th February 2010, 21:43	#18
-NUT-case BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 263 Thanked: 12 Times	That video was horrible to watch. Imagine being helpless to save your family. All these high tech cars scare the crap out of me. Give me practical mechanical parts anytime. BTW i think all these newer computer controlled cars should have an emergency KILLSWITCH that can be pressed to override all electronics and bring the car to a stop. There has to be a failsafe system especially when the 3 most important controls of the car(Acceleratot,Brake and Steering) are in the hands of a tiny chip. Its like literally putting your life in the hands of a computer. And cars like lexus can even be remotely accessed by a person other than the one driving it. scary. @ R2D2 .. if you see the video of the 911 call , you see that his accelerator is stuck and he has no brakes. "there's no brakes" he says. Floor mats making the pedals get stuck - My @SS. Toyota is hiding a major software glitch if you ask me. Last edited by -NUT-case : 17th February 2010 at 21:47.
	() Thanks

18th February 2010, 00:08	#24
raul BHPian Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pune Posts: 920 Thanked: 372 Times	This is not a Toyota vs x issue, this is a consumer issue and as informed consumers we should be at the forefront seeking accountability. I don't have a Toyota but if i did i would be very worried, especially given our attitude to safety here, shouldn't a regulatory body in India be seeking answers from Toyota and protecting consumer interests because companies rarely do that on their own without regulation. Pretending as if everything is ok or brushing things under the carpet to deflect criticism which Toyota deserves for the way they have handled this literally being forced to acknowledge a multitude the defects is pure callousness. Expectations are high from Toyota because of tqm and now to see it come apart like this should worry as consumers and auto lovers about the company. This is the company that has set standards and is the global no 1, clearly this is reflective of some major deterioration in their operations. This is not the time to defend Toyota, we should be concerned. Last edited by raul : 18th February 2010 at 00:14.
	() Thanks

18th February 2010, 01:51	#25
shortbread Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: KL 7 Posts: 2,390 Thanked: 6,276 Times	Hahaha.....the irony, when I opened up this thread here (based in the UK now), the ad box on top actually shows a message from Toyota that 'Has your Toyota been affected by a recall?' Toyota has made a huge mess of this issue. Strangely even newbie car makers resolve manufacturing complaints in due course when the respective cars come in for service. This is not the first time that Toyota has had to recall its cars, its latest gen, enviro. flagship Prius has been riddled with problems from day 1, well before the accidents or deaths. But this is not the first or last time that a car manufacturer will make a product with defects and then try to rectify it. Toyota somehow tried to wash their hands of this issue and then fell flat on its face. This is a car maker which is not exactly well known for exciting or beautiful vehicles, but mostly for reliable and good quality ones. They have taken a huge blow to this image. But that said Im very sure that Toyota will come out stronger from this ugly mess.
	() Thanks

18th February 2010, 13:24	#27
1-Testosterone BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Amritsar Posts: 388 Thanked: 43 Times View My Garage	Irrespective of what TOYOTA has achieved during past few decades, these incidents have indeed dented their popularity and badge of providing "World's most reliable cars". With all those QCD's around, there is no such excuse of multiple failures.
	() Thanks

18th February 2010, 13:48	#28
sameer551 BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 309 Thanked: 0 Times	I would stand by the quality and reliability of an Toyota vehicle. I own a Toyota Camry 2000 model here in US and have taken her to limits in all roads bad, good, and the car has never disappointed me. The quality of its part and mileage is really great. Its just that they got into picture for few bad incidents and they are doing the recall. But I can bet all car manufacturers can have such issues here and there. I believe in toyota and its one of the best. I would always buy a toyota in India as well if budget permits!!!
	() Thanks

18th February 2010, 15:11	#29
recshenoy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Mangalore / Bangalore Posts: 1,128 Thanked: 254 Times	OT: Agreed that there is problem with Toyota. But how about other manufacturers who say “obsessed with quality” “Das Auto” etc? Are they so perfect that everything is spick and span at their end! Or is it that Toyota is getting noticed due to large number of recalls and back to back failures?
	() Thanks

18th February 2010, 15:39	#30
rjalihal BHPian Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 713 Thanked: 100 Times	I do not think Toyota is to be blamed entirely. A lot of their parts are outsourced to other manufacturers. teh same holds for the power steering assembly. So all cars which were fixed by that particular outsourced company's equipment are the ones being recalled. Technically its not Toyota's fault, its the outsourced company's fault. Toyota should scrutinize the factories who make parts on behalf of Toyota.
	() Thanks