TATA-Fiat Global Alliance

protege · 20th September 2005, 23:31

Saw the ticker in CNBC tonight that, fiat engines will be used in Indicas.. according to industry sources.

Mpower · 21st September 2005, 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

*LOL* That was an understatement. Tata Petrol units are nothing much to write home about. Okay, but not that great. But about Fiat petrol units ... now that was a nasty comment.

Reason for my comment, FIAT cars bombed in India mostly due to poor FE (also ASS and image). Tata and Fiat have nothing to offer to each other when it comes to petrol engines. Fiat can offer its 1.3 multijet (although there may be a clause in their agreement with GM/Suzuki that prevents them from doing this) and also their global retail network. TATA can offer their low cost manufacturing and component base to FIAT.

pranil · 21st September 2005, 07:25

GUYS news today in Business-Standard

Fiat India will sfift the manfacturng to Tata Motors Pune . There is talk of even outsourcing the R&D and Design to TATA

Link and complete article below

http://www.business-standard.com/com...&autono=200781

Quote

Tata Motors to make Fiat Palio in Pune

Suveen K Sinha & Surajeet Das Gupta / New Delhi September 21, 2005

With the Palio deal, Tata Motors will get the much-needed petrol capability.

Fiat India’s Palio is likely to soon start rolling out of Tata Motors' manufacturing facility at Pune as part of an alliance being forged between the two companies.

The Palio, along with Fiat India’s other models, is currently manufactured at the company’s plant in Mumbai’s Bandra-Kurla complex.

The shift of the Palio to the Tata stable will create a unique situation by bringing together the two models— the other being the Tata Indica— that had first opened the premium hatchback segment. This segment has just started to boom with Maruti Udyog’s Swift and Hyundai Motors India Ltd’s Getz.

The addition of the Palio range will be a shot in the arm for Tata Motors, whose Indica, in spite of having spawned a sedan (the Indigo) and a station wagon (the Marina), is perceived as catering mainly to those looking for a diesel vehicle. The sales of its petrol variants are a small percentage of the total sales.

The Palio, too, has yielded two station wagons (the Weekend and the Adventure) and a diesel variant. However, crucially, it will add to the Tata portfolio through its petrol appeal. A Tata Motors spokesperson declined to comment on this.

As Maruti, setting up a diesel engine plant, hopes to roll out its first diesel car from the new facility by the end of next year, the Palio’s move to Tata Motors will provide it with the much-needed petrol capability.

Besides, one issue that all Fiat products (the other being the Sienna, reborn as the Petra) have suffered from is inadequate after-sales support. Tata Motors’ vast network will effectively address that.

The Palio, when introduced, had made quite a splash in the market with its aggressive pricing, appealing looks and roominess. However, word spread about its dismal fuel efficiency -- something the company attributes to miscommunication -- affecting sales.

In August this year, Palio sales were just 120, down from 438 in August 2004. The Indica, on the other hand, sold over 8,000, with the Indigo and the Marina pooling in another 3,200 during the month.

amit · 21st September 2005, 07:49

Yesterday the reports said Fiat is going to make Indica's didnt they? Today it's the opposite! What is going on?

Quote:

Fiat India’s Palio is likely to soon start rolling out of Tata Motors' manufacturing facility at Pune

The key word there is Likely. I think both business standard and we at team-bhp are getting too excited too fast about the whole TATA-Fiat deal. Question is have the companies actually signed any agreement yet? Shouldn't we calm down and let the companies first work out the terms of the agreement and let them make an announcement first?

hasopi · 21st September 2005, 09:27

If this happens..Palio will not depreciate like now..we will get gud resale value.. :-)

Steeroid · 21st September 2005, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower

TATA can offer their low cost manufacturing and component base to FIAT.

Yes, and in the process Tata can learn something about making thing efficiently too. I dont mean cost-efficiently. For eg., the front seat riser (the metal frame on which the seat is mounted) on the Safari is made of such thick and heavy metal that we broke about 6 drill bits trying to make 2 holes on it to screw on the CD changer. What a waste of good metal!

Steeroid · 21st September 2005, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by amit

Y
The key word there is Likely. I think both business standard and we at team-bhp are getting too excited too fast about the whole TATA-Fiat deal. Question is have the companies actually signed any agreement yet? Shouldn't we calm down and let the companies first work out the terms of the agreement and let them make an announcement first?

You said it, mate. Business Standard (and especially their Motoring arm) tends to get very excited over what they consider is 'good' news.

typeOnegative · 21st September 2005, 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower

Reason for my comment, FIAT cars bombed in India mostly due to poor FE (also ASS and image).

That one statement is such a big misleading one dude. I agree with the ASS and image parts. But tell me, what led you to think that the FE is bad? Or are you talking about the overall package (Car+Engine) ? In which case you cannot say that the engine is bad. In the price bracket that Fiat operates in, the Petrol engines that it makes are among the best.

AvinashKeezh · 21st September 2005, 12:42

I've been seconding typeO's opinions for soo long now,
and i just could not keep away from a Fiat bashing (and one which is pretty far from the truth)...
even if you are talking about the overall package, the fiat cars are the best on the indian car scene right now at the price which they are offering..
but can't say if that would have been the same if they had a better success rate!!! which would have left out the options for competitive pricing

but on the whole, a good car alone is not gonna fetch them more sales!!! need a lot more than that!!!
if i had known them, i would have been some kinda mktg head somewhere !!!

... but im just a lowly s/w enggr.. (nothing low about it).. being modest!!
ciao

ak

RX135 · 21st September 2005, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

That one statement is such a big misleading one dude. I agree with the ASS and image parts. But tell me, what led you to think that the FE is bad? Or are you talking about the overall package (Car+Engine) ? In which case you cannot say that the engine is bad. In the price bracket that Fiat operates in, the Petrol engines that it makes are among the best.

Hahaha! Don't get worked up, dude. It clearly seems to be a ploy to instigate good ol' "Fiat boys" :-) So, relax and enjoy your 1.6 DOHC 100 PS Petrol from Fiat.

hasopi · 21st September 2005, 13:03

Everybody expects 17kmpl - 20kmpl mileage from any car thats launched..(effect of tin boxes plying around).

Now lets see in reality what mileage does SWIFT offer? & then compare SWIFT mileage with that of Palio?

We will see that Palio gives decent mileage in its class. I have no doubt about it.

prkothan · 21st September 2005, 13:20

milage milage milage ... a 1242 cc engine with 72 bhp which has kerb weight 1015 kg what milage will give ?

Honestly I am getting 10-12 km/l in chennai city traffic with partial AC in my 2002 Palio. On highway it gives me 16.4-18km/l (75% AC) with maximum speed of 125 km/l. In fact I used to race in highways. I am pretty much happy with the performance.

Just fit Palio engine in Zen or Santro and check the milage. It certainly give 13 in city. But who will give me the comfort ?

For every trip to my home town I spend something around Rs 800 in petrol. It carries 5 people with comfort and lots of luggage. If I had bought any other compact car (except Getz) can I get the same comfort what Palio gives me.

Palio is a practical machine.

typeOnegative · 21st September 2005, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by RX135

Hahaha! Don't get worked up, dude. It clearly seems to be a ploy to instigate good ol' "Fiat boys" :-) So, relax and enjoy your 1.6 DOHC 100 PS Petrol from Fiat.

Yes RX. I think I will keep quiet now. But that statement was so wrong, I could not keep away from it.

deepakhon · 21st September 2005, 13:52

This piece of news is floating around in the Palio Users Group. I need to confirm the authenticity of this yet:

================================================== =========
Tata Motors to make Fiat Palio in Pune

Suveen K Sinha & Surajeet Das Gupta / New Delhi September 21, 2005

With the Palio deal, Tata Motors will get the much-needed petrol
capability.

Fiat India's Palio is likely to soon start rolling out of Tata Motors'
manufacturing facility at Pune as part of an alliance being forged between
the two companies.

The Palio, along with Fiat India's other models, is currently
manufactured at the company's plant in Mumbai's Bandra-Kurla complex.

The shift of the Palio to the Tata stable will create a unique
situation by bringing together the two models- the other being the Tata
Indica- that had first opened the premium hatchback segment. This segment
has just started to boom with Maruti Udyog's Swift and Hyundai Motors India
Ltd's Getz.

The addition of the Palio range will be a shot in the arm for Tata
Motors, whose Indica, in spite of having spawned a sedan (the Indigo) and a
station wagon (the Marina), is perceived as catering mainly to those looking
for a diesel vehicle. The sales of its petrol variants are a small
percentage of the total sales.

The Palio, too, has yielded two station wagons (the Weekend and the
Adventure) and a diesel variant. However, crucially, it will add to the Tata
portfolio through its petrol appeal. A Tata Motors spokesperson declined to
comment on this.

As Maruti, setting up a diesel engine plant, hopes to roll out its
first diesel car from the new facility by the end of next year, the Palio's
move to Tata Motors will provide it with the much-needed petrol capability.

Besides, one issue that all Fiat products (the other being the Sienna,
reborn as the Petra) have suffered from is inadequate after-sales support.
Tata Motors' vast network will effectively address that.

The Palio, when introduced, had made quite a splash in the market with
its aggressive pricing, appealing looks and roominess. However, word spread
about its dismal fuel efficiency -- something the company attributes to
miscommunication -- affecting sales.

In August this year, Palio sales were just 120, down from 438 in
August 2004. The Indica, on the other hand, sold over 8,000, with the Indigo
and the Marina pooling in another 3,200 during the month.
================================================== =========

GTO - Touring · 21st September 2005, 13:54

The build quality of Fiat is better. And its Fiats plants that have excess capacity. So why on earth move the production to Tatas premises?

GTO

View Poll Results: What is the status of FIAT in India
Welcome move- Boost in Fiat sales in India	29	85.29%
OH - Fait seems to be closing down indian operations	5	14.71%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

20th September 2005, 23:31	#16
protege BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 51 Thanked: 0 Times View My Garage	Saw the ticker in CNBC tonight that, fiat engines will be used in Indicas.. according to industry sources.
	() Thanks

21st September 2005, 07:25	#18
pranil BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Navi Mumbai Posts: 153 Thanked: 2 Times	Fiat Palio to be made in TATA Factory PUNE GUYS news today in Business-Standard Fiat India will sfift the manfacturng to Tata Motors Pune . There is talk of even outsourcing the R&D and Design to TATA Link and complete article below http://www.business-standard.com/com...&autono=200781 Quote Tata Motors to make Fiat Palio in Pune Suveen K Sinha & Surajeet Das Gupta / New Delhi September 21, 2005 With the Palio deal, Tata Motors will get the much-needed petrol capability. Fiat India’s Palio is likely to soon start rolling out of Tata Motors' manufacturing facility at Pune as part of an alliance being forged between the two companies. The Palio, along with Fiat India’s other models, is currently manufactured at the company’s plant in Mumbai’s Bandra-Kurla complex. The shift of the Palio to the Tata stable will create a unique situation by bringing together the two models— the other being the Tata Indica— that had first opened the premium hatchback segment. This segment has just started to boom with Maruti Udyog’s Swift and Hyundai Motors India Ltd’s Getz. The addition of the Palio range will be a shot in the arm for Tata Motors, whose Indica, in spite of having spawned a sedan (the Indigo) and a station wagon (the Marina), is perceived as catering mainly to those looking for a diesel vehicle. The sales of its petrol variants are a small percentage of the total sales. The Palio, too, has yielded two station wagons (the Weekend and the Adventure) and a diesel variant. However, crucially, it will add to the Tata portfolio through its petrol appeal. A Tata Motors spokesperson declined to comment on this. As Maruti, setting up a diesel engine plant, hopes to roll out its first diesel car from the new facility by the end of next year, the Palio’s move to Tata Motors will provide it with the much-needed petrol capability. Besides, one issue that all Fiat products (the other being the Sienna, reborn as the Petra) have suffered from is inadequate after-sales support. Tata Motors’ vast network will effectively address that. The Palio, when introduced, had made quite a splash in the market with its aggressive pricing, appealing looks and roominess. However, word spread about its dismal fuel efficiency -- something the company attributes to miscommunication -- affecting sales. In August this year, Palio sales were just 120, down from 438 in August 2004. The Indica, on the other hand, sold over 8,000, with the Indigo and the Marina pooling in another 3,200 during the month.
	() Thanks

21st September 2005, 09:27	#20
hasopi BANNED Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 177 Thanked: 0 Times	Expect gud resale value for Palio If this happens..Palio will not depreciate like now..we will get gud resale value.. :-) Last edited by hasopi : 21st September 2005 at 09:28.
	() Thanks

21st September 2005, 12:42	#24
AvinashKeezh BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 234 Thanked: 11 Times	I've been seconding typeO's opinions for soo long now, and i just could not keep away from a Fiat bashing (and one which is pretty far from the truth)... even if you are talking about the overall package, the fiat cars are the best on the indian car scene right now at the price which they are offering.. but can't say if that would have been the same if they had a better success rate!!! which would have left out the options for competitive pricing but on the whole, a good car alone is not gonna fetch them more sales!!! need a lot more than that!!! if i had known them, i would have been some kinda mktg head somewhere !!! ... but im just a lowly s/w enggr.. (nothing low about it).. being modest!! ciao ak
	() Thanks

21st September 2005, 13:03	#26
hasopi BANNED Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 177 Thanked: 0 Times	Everybody expects 17kmpl - 20kmpl mileage from any car thats launched..(effect of tin boxes plying around). Now lets see in reality what mileage does SWIFT offer? & then compare SWIFT mileage with that of Palio? We will see that Palio gives decent mileage in its class. I have no doubt about it.
	() Thanks

21st September 2005, 13:20	#27
prkothan BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: chennai Posts: 180 Thanked: 39 Times	milage milage milage ... a 1242 cc engine with 72 bhp which has kerb weight 1015 kg what milage will give ? Honestly I am getting 10-12 km/l in chennai city traffic with partial AC in my 2002 Palio. On highway it gives me 16.4-18km/l (75% AC) with maximum speed of 125 km/l. In fact I used to race in highways. I am pretty much happy with the performance. Just fit Palio engine in Zen or Santro and check the milage. It certainly give 13 in city. But who will give me the comfort ? For every trip to my home town I spend something around Rs 800 in petrol. It carries 5 people with comfort and lots of luggage. If I had bought any other compact car (except Getz) can I get the same comfort what Palio gives me. Palio is a practical machine.
	() Thanks

21st September 2005, 13:52	#29
deepakhon Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,441 Thanked: 65 Times	This piece of news is floating around in the Palio Users Group. I need to confirm the authenticity of this yet: ================================================== ========= Tata Motors to make Fiat Palio in Pune Suveen K Sinha & Surajeet Das Gupta / New Delhi September 21, 2005 With the Palio deal, Tata Motors will get the much-needed petrol capability. Fiat India's Palio is likely to soon start rolling out of Tata Motors' manufacturing facility at Pune as part of an alliance being forged between the two companies. The Palio, along with Fiat India's other models, is currently manufactured at the company's plant in Mumbai's Bandra-Kurla complex. The shift of the Palio to the Tata stable will create a unique situation by bringing together the two models- the other being the Tata Indica- that had first opened the premium hatchback segment. This segment has just started to boom with Maruti Udyog's Swift and Hyundai Motors India Ltd's Getz. The addition of the Palio range will be a shot in the arm for Tata Motors, whose Indica, in spite of having spawned a sedan (the Indigo) and a station wagon (the Marina), is perceived as catering mainly to those looking for a diesel vehicle. The sales of its petrol variants are a small percentage of the total sales. The Palio, too, has yielded two station wagons (the Weekend and the Adventure) and a diesel variant. However, crucially, it will add to the Tata portfolio through its petrol appeal. A Tata Motors spokesperson declined to comment on this. As Maruti, setting up a diesel engine plant, hopes to roll out its first diesel car from the new facility by the end of next year, the Palio's move to Tata Motors will provide it with the much-needed petrol capability. Besides, one issue that all Fiat products (the other being the Sienna, reborn as the Petra) have suffered from is inadequate after-sales support. Tata Motors' vast network will effectively address that. The Palio, when introduced, had made quite a splash in the market with its aggressive pricing, appealing looks and roominess. However, word spread about its dismal fuel efficiency -- something the company attributes to miscommunication -- affecting sales. In August this year, Palio sales were just 120, down from 438 in August 2004. The Indica, on the other hand, sold over 8,000, with the Indigo and the Marina pooling in another 3,200 during the month. ================================================== =========
	() Thanks

21st September 2005, 13:54	#30
GTO - Touring BHPian Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 710 Thanked: 54 Times	The build quality of Fiat is better. And its Fiats plants that have excess capacity. So why on earth move the production to Tatas premises? GTO
	() Thanks