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Old 18th March 2010, 16:30   #211
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post

That's a myth which I don't buy at all. Few people buy a Merc E Class to keep as a showpiece in their house; I know more who actually use it as a daily driver than a weekend'er. There aren't any stats that prove premium car owners live closer to their office.
I was trying to say the same thing. Average Merc owner (businessman / politician) drives probably 4-5 times as many kms per year as the average upper-middle-class iVTEC owner (speculation; dont have any data to prove this). So, a Merc diesel (50% lesser fuel costs on a significantly large fuel bill) makes a whole lot of sense, while a iVTEC (15% lesser fuel costs on a paltry fuel bill) makes little sense considering the 1.5 lakh higher initial cost of iVTEC cars.

Anyways, we are seriously
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Old 18th March 2010, 19:05   #212
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In my opinion, although the Jazz is a hatch, albeit one that can shame many sedans (including the ANHC), it may not be making as much money for Honda as the ANHC despite the excise concessions. Honda is laughing all the way to the bank with the ANHC. Now you know why they will not lower the price.

This is because the cost to build is probably the same for both cars while the Jazz is cheaper (net of additional features) than the ANHC E by more than a lac of rupees.

In my view, the Jazz is also a sweeter handling car than the ANHC. It is the perfect car for someone who drives predominantly in the city with occassional highway trips. It has fantastic economy as well. The only other gasoline powered cars which are more economical in the city are the Alto and A Star.

Unfortunately, it has been more a victim of customer perception (right product at the wrong time?) than price.

If Honda repositions the Jazz (through a lower price point), they end up losing money. Putting the 1.5l engine too is not going to make any difference to the sales. In fact it may eat into ANHC sales and they end up making less money. They are better off leaving the Jazz where it is and hope the market matures faster.

I'd prefer a 1.5l Jazz over the ANHC any day!
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Old 18th March 2010, 19:35   #213
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Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza View Post
In my opinion, although the Jazz is a hatch, albeit one that can shame many sedans (including the ANHC), it may not be making as much money for Honda as the ANHC despite the excise concessions. Honda is laughing all the way to the bank with the ANHC. Now you know why they will not lower the price.

This is because the cost to build is probably the same for both cars while the Jazz is cheaper (net of additional features) than the ANHC E by more than a lac of rupees.

In my view, the Jazz is also a sweeter handling car than the ANHC. It is the perfect car for someone who drives predominantly in the city with occassional highway trips. It has fantastic economy as well. The only other gasoline powered cars which are more economical in the city are the Alto and A Star.

Unfortunately, it has been more a victim of customer perception (right product at the wrong time?) than price.

If Honda repositions the Jazz (through a lower price point), they end up losing money. Putting the 1.5l engine too is not going to make any difference to the sales. In fact it may eat into ANHC sales and they end up making less money. They are better off leaving the Jazz where it is and hope the market matures faster.

I'd prefer a 1.5l Jazz over the ANHC any day!
I do agree. In whole of SE Asian market, Jazz is priced above City, and considered as a premium option in comparison with City. Here in Singapore, City is the entry level car, often compared with the Toyota Vios, where as Jazz / Fit is a level up, and considered as one of the most VFM option from the Honda stable.
But in the India scenario, I doubt even the 1.5L option will do any good for the Jazz. And the reason is that we consider hatchbacks inferior to sedans. Just for that reason, I doubt other car makers will think twice before bringing their high volume hatchbacks to India. For eg; if tomorrow VW plans to bring the iconic golf to India, our buyers will consider it as a lesser option to the Jetta!
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Old 18th March 2010, 19:36   #214
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I'd differ here, What Maruti did with Versa/EECO is completely possible for Honda to do with JAZZ / ?

In my opinion, Honda should discontinue Jazz and then relaunch it with a new name and about 1.5 Lakhs lesser priced. However good a product maybe, but I may not put my $$$ on a hatchback when the market has a lot more to offer at a lot less price.

When Honda launched NHC in 2004, it was priced correctly and they could sell a lot of them, It had a good localization content but the quality of any part was never compromised,

Even ANHC has a good localisation and it is selling like Hot cakes. They can very well and IMHO should soon re-launch Jazz with a new name and lesser price tag.
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Old 18th March 2010, 20:25   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza View Post
In my opinion, although the Jazz is a hatch, albeit one that can shame many sedans (including the ANHC), it may not be making as much money for Honda as the ANHC despite the excise concessions. Honda is laughing all the way to the bank with the ANHC. Now you know why they will not lower the price.

This is because the cost to build is probably the same for both cars while the Jazz is cheaper (net of additional features) than the ANHC E by more than a lac of rupees.
I fail to understand why the cost to build Jazz is more. Do they import major components?

If a premium car company like VW can make a hatch and price it neck to neck with the competition, then why not Honda?
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Old 19th March 2010, 06:21   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd de Souza View Post
It is the perfect car for someone who drives predominantly in the city with occassional highway trips. It has fantastic economy as well. The only other gasoline powered cars which are more economical in the city are the Alto and A Star.
I would take that with a pinch of salt
Premium hatch ( More pricey than a sedan) and more economy are not gelling well here

cheers
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Old 19th March 2010, 06:38   #217
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I fail to understand why the cost to build Jazz is more. Do they import major components?

If a premium car company like VW can make a hatch and price it neck to neck with the competition, then why not Honda?
My take on this.

Low levels of localization?

Low economies of scale? (With only a few hundreds selling every month, it is difficult to push down prices of parts from suppliers. Parts sharing with ANHC can reduce costs only so much ---> afterall ANHC itself is an expensive car. Also, the business case of any low-volume product strictly involves high profit margin)

Premium parts being used: (iVTEC engine vs. the 3 pot of Polo)

Honda's pricing strategy: (I would say a horribly wrong one for the B+ segment)

Long-term strategy: (Somebody mentioned on t-bhp that VW will be selling each Polo at a loss of around 85k initially. Once the volumes pick up they would be able to reduce costs and turn into profits at the same price point. Also, they see Polo as their Indian market entry strategy - to make their presence felt, increase dealerships, increase market share in india, etc. Honda has no similar plans with Jazz.)

Posturing: Polo Comfortline is priced extremely cheap. But it is so under-spec'ed that it would have almost no sales, I think. The actual pricing of Polo shouldnt consider Comfortline pricing -- but should start with Trendline pricing, which isnt so cheap, really.
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Old 19th March 2010, 08:52   #218
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Originally Posted by PYSO View Post
My take on this.

Low levels of localization?

...
The Jazz has the most localization among all of Honda's models. 77% to be precise. It was mentioned in a Honda press release on the feb 2010 sales thread that i had attached here a few pages back. I remember reading something about how the Jazz has a more beefed up suspension or something (not too sure). Even i've been scratching my head as to how it can be more expensive to manufacture as it shares parts with the City, gets excise benefits and has 77% localisation
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Old 19th March 2010, 10:09   #219
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My perspective on the Honda Jazz pricing. Which car in India offers as much space as Honda Jazz with Magic Seats at a price of 8 lakhs? Honda Jazz seems to have more space than even many of the sedans.

All cars with equivalent space are @ price of 10+.
What about Chevy UVA or Tata Indica Vista? Do they not have comparable interior space for about half the price? Vista might even have more than Jazz though I am not sure (someone can confirm)
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Old 19th March 2010, 10:11   #220
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A minor facelift for the Jazz is on the way.
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Old 19th March 2010, 11:18   #221
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Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
The Jazz has the most localization among all of Honda's models. 77% to be precise. It was mentioned in a Honda press release on the feb 2010 sales thread that i had attached here a few pages back. I remember reading something about how the Jazz has a more beefed up suspension or something (not too sure). Even i've been scratching my head as to how it can be more expensive to manufacture as it shares parts with the City, gets excise benefits and has 77% localisation
Localization + High volumes would reduce cost significantly.
Localization + low volumes would only reduce costs a little, especially for good quality parts.

E.g. Went to buy plastic chair. Sales guy quoted 750 per chair (it was an easy-chair type premium model, thus the high price). I asked for discount. After lots of negotiations, he offered 650. I said NO. He said he would give more discounts if I planned to buy a large number of chairs. I bluffed I needed 250 chairs. He immediately offered a price of 475! Finally after lots of haggling bought 4 at 550 each.
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Old 19th March 2010, 14:12   #222
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I think the sales of the Jazz is going to reduce further. Jazz is simply overpriced for a hatch back. It does not offer any more features than the much lower priced competition. I fail to understand what is the USP of the Jazz. I think Honda was overconfident that Indian customers willl buy anything because of the Honda brand name which was proved wrong in case of Jazz. Anyway what has happened is good for customer. Hope Honda will do little more research when before they launch new cars.
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Old 19th March 2010, 14:51   #223
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I have went through 15 pages of bashing for Jazz. I small quick question to all, and I am expecting a genuine answer. If Jazz would have been 1-1.5L cheaper with same package, would you all still be bashing her? I believe NO. Because you all accept it is a wonderful car. Now if I compare the quality of i20, Vista, Swift, etc with Jazz, I dont think no one stand nearby it. For me Quality is refinement, materials, not equipment that come as a package. And for Quality one has to shed money.
As far as I remember, Jazz is priced above City in all the countries where both are sold together. Here in India, because of Indian consumer psychology, Honda had to install 1.2L engine, otherwise Jazz would have costlier than city. Also I believe Jazz is not a hatchback. It is a sedan without "so called boot" but still has more volume than Hyundai Accent.
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Old 19th March 2010, 14:58   #224
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I have went through 15 pages of bashing for Jazz. I small quick question to all, and I am expecting a genuine answer. If Jazz would have been 1-1.5L cheaper with same package, would you all still be bashing her? I believe NO. Because you all accept it is a wonderful car. Now if I compare the quality of i20, Vista, Swift, etc with Jazz, I dont think no one stand nearby it. For me Quality is refinement, materials, not equipment that come as a package. And for Quality one has to shed money.
As far as I remember, Jazz is priced above City in all the countries where both are sold together. Here in India, because of Indian consumer psychology, Honda had to install 1.2L engine, otherwise Jazz would have costlier than city. Also I believe Jazz is not a hatchback. It is a sedan without "so called boot" but still has more volume than Hyundai Accent.

Every car has its weakness

vista - build quality
i20 - puny engine (1.2) and bland steering
swift - rattles
jazz - high price and low equipments

if jazz would have been priced competatively with i20 and been given alloys/FATC/seat height controller etc, I believe it would also have sold neck to neck (or even better) than i20.

Its my opinion that there is a cost for quality, but with 77% localization, things should have been cheaper. Does Honda manufacture jazz and city in every country where they sell them?
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Old 19th March 2010, 15:33   #225
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15 pages discussing the sales of one product. Just goes to show the Jazz's popularity.

I own a Jazz for more than a month and i am happy with my decision. In fact during my research i did not find a single owner review on the internet who regretted his decision of buying the Jazz.

One of my colleagues has booked a Jazz now after riding with me. He was considering the City earlier but after seeing the space and the flexible seats he decided on the Jazz. Unless somebody want the extra horses, the Jazz makes a more sensible buy over the City in my opinion.

The Jazz does not sell here because people compare it with hatchbacks but the reality is that the space offered is comparable to a C segment cars. We will see the sales improve only once the indian mentality accepts that hatches too can be spacious and can have a snob value.
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