[abhibh]

Originally Posted by cyqed

If Polo was a make or break deal car for VW, they wouldn't have priced it so high with such lousy safety features. Figo's interiors does not worth mentioning here. Pink..!!! was that the best color their designers could come up with.

PINK Actually in person the color doesn't look bad. It might actually look good on a black FIGO!!!

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by formel_eins

"There are engineering issues with 3 cylinder engines, that just cannot be wished away." Thats a very bold statement Amartya. Research has been going on to make these engines more efficient and refined. Do you think one of the biggest automotive group like VW will make a blunder with a 3-cylinder engine?? They learnt from Fabia and brought more refinement in Polo. They have launched 3-cylinder engine not just in India but in Europe too. Even Nissan Micra will be coming with a 3-cylinder engine. So a 3-cylinder mill does not necessarily mean a compromise. With proper tuning and engineering it is capable enough to defend its territory

Well if you hadn't booked a Polo already, we could have had a normal debate, but judging by most of your posts about the Polo, you have strong feelings towards it. That's alright, because cars are an emotive subject.


That being said, I didn't wish to indulge in taking this thread off-topic, but your post compels me to do so. In fact I'd go as far as saying that you didn't bother to do your homework before sort of challenging me by saying that I was being "bold", I will ask you to read the link I have posted below.

It's about how a 4-cylinder engine is always more refined than the corresponding 3-cylinder engine, it's about how 4 cylinder's give you "primary balance".

Inline-four engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


If you still think I was being "bold", send me a PM, I don't want to waste the rest of the team's time on discussing something that is not relevant to this subject.

[cyqed]

Originally Posted by abhibh

PINK Actually in person the color doesn't look bad. It might actually look good on a black FIGO!!!

Pink - IMO, is a very girly color. I don't know if anyone else shares the same thought. I really cant imagine myself in a car with Pink interiors. It sends the wrong vibes . You know what I mean

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Amartya

It's about how a 4-cylinder engine is always more refined than the corresponding 3-cylinder engine, it's about how 4 cylinder's give you "primary balance".

From an engineering standpoint I agree.
Just as a twin is more balanced than a single. And yet, in India, there is not a single twin cylinder engined bike in the market yet, other than exotic imports. And that is because the large large majority of the buyers see no value in the twin that will make up for its cons.
End of the day, what matters to the mass market is how well the engine runs, how reliable it is, how efficient it is - in addition to the driveability and other attributes of the car and the quality of after sales. Rightly so, in my mind, because there is so much noise and chaos happening on and off the roads here, that the loss of the extra refinement is not worth it, by itself, to the mass market. As long its other needs are well met. And if that be the case, and the car is successful, and can be offered at a price that makes sense to the larger population, I would not let an engineering dogma held up as a stick to beat the car with. Would you?!
And if it comes to dogmas, ask a 6 or 8 cylinder fan and he will tell you how unrefined a four is!
PS: My concern about a lot of the new small cars to be honest is more on the lack of cc than cylinders. With the AC running all the time, and average speeds rising, these engines cannot run with the headroom that is required for stress free life of both the driver and the engine. They spend far too much of their life close to the limit.

[Mpower]

Can someone confirm if the VW Polo 1.2 comes with a balance shaft system or not?

Originally Posted by Sawyer

From an engineering standpoint I agree.
Just as a twin is more balanced than a single. And yet, in India, there is not a single twin cylinder engined bike in the market yet, other than exotic imports. And that is because the large large majority of the buyers see no value in the twin that will make up for its cons!

The ZZR250 just launched is a twin but its not a commuter bike.

A twin, in addition to being smooth also has the ability to rev higher and thus producing more power.

Originally Posted by Sawyer

End of the day, what matters to the mass market is how well the engine runs, how reliable it is, how efficient it is - in addition to the driveability and other attributes of the car and the quality of after sales. Rightly so, in my mind, because there is so much noise and chaos happening on and off the roads here, that the loss of the extra refinement is not worth it, by itself, to the mass market. As long its other needs are well met. And if that be the case, and the car is successful, and can be offered at a price that makes sense to the larger population, I would not let an engineering dogma held up as a stick to beat the car with.
And if it comes to dogmas, ask a 6 or 8 cylinder fan and he will tell you how unrefined a four is!

I agree somewhat. Broady speaking, a 3 cyl is fine for the mass market and in fact cars with little engines like Zen, Spark and Santro should have been triples.

The only issue here is that the Polo is a premium hatch with top notch looks and feel and quality but the engine does not have teh same personality. Not to mention the K12 4 cyl is getting better fuel economy.

[sanjayc]

Originally Posted by cyqed

Pink - IMO, is a very girly color. I don't know if anyone else shares the same thought. I really cant imagine myself in a car with Pink interiors. It sends the wrong vibes . You know what I mean

For the umpteenth time, Get this "STRAIGHT" - if you know what I mean - PINK is OPTIONAL..you can very well opt for black, if you wish to receive the right vibes

[poloman]

Though the refinement of 3 pot cyl in Polo cannot match K series, I would say it is quite refined atleast from inside for an average buyer. The refinement at times can be lot subjective. People going to testdirve with predetermined mental picture of a 3 pot engine may find it noisy. But whether you like it or not, you will see more 3 cyl engines in the future due to stricter emission norms.

[Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Mpower

The ZZR250 just launched is a twin but its not a commuter bike.

The only issue here is that the Polo is a premium hatch with top notch looks and feel and quality but the engine does not have teh same personality. Not to mention the K12 4 cyl is getting better fuel economy.

How many of the twins have Bajaj sold till now?! It is another exotic import in my book at this time.
Maybe so about the Polo engine, but if it allows people to buy the car and experience the rest of the features, the rest will follow. VW has to build volumes to absorb the invested in capacity, not sell just to people on TBHP. And at the price of the base petrol, I think it is probably a good buy, if all the other things are right. To get a premium hatch at that price with a decent engine may not appeal to enthusiasts, but enthusiasts cannot be the cake that a mass maker of cars must have in the fold. The icing can follow if the cake rises.
PS: When I bought the i 20, it was after reading all the noise here about the weak engine in the 1.2 petrol. I took it for a spin, realized the lack of low down torque, but decided I could live with it for all its other virtues, including the service quality. And I think that a lot of people also think the same way, given the numbers that get sold every month. Nothing is perfect, and if it is, it is usually not affordable!

[ramzsys]

If i am going to buy with eyes shut, it should be the German Polo, irrespective of the noisy engine. But the ownership costs are still not clear or the dealer network. Yeah, ads on tv are really nice, but reality is different. Grapes may be really sour.

[joshdrive]

Originally Posted by cyqed

Pink - IMO, is a very girly color. I don't know if anyone else shares the same thought. I really cant imagine myself in a car with Pink interiors. It sends the wrong vibes . You know what I mean

Its not pink. Its a creamy red. It is not bad and gets with the interior color scheme well.

[formel_eins]

Originally Posted by Amartya

Well if you hadn't booked a Polo already, we could have had a normal debate, but judging by most of your posts about the Polo, you have strong feelings towards it. That's alright, because cars are an emotive subject.


That being said, I didn't wish to indulge in taking this thread off-topic, but your post compels me to do so. In fact I'd go as far as saying that you didn't bother to do your homework before sort of challenging me by saying that I was being "bold", I will ask you to read the link I have posted below.

It's about how a 4-cylinder engine is always more refined than the corresponding 3-cylinder engine, it's about how 4 cylinder's give you "primary balance".

Inline-four engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


If you still think I was being "bold", send me a PM, I don't want to waste the rest of the team's time on discussing something that is not relevant to this subject.

Booking a Polo does incline me towards it, but it does not mean I overlooked the shortcomings but there has to a basis for the same. I think you got it wrong, I made no comparison regarding refinements. All I wanted to say was 3-cylinders having an engineering issue is a very generalized statement. If there is an engineering issue in 3-cylinder of Polo do share your knowledge on the same, I would appreciate it.

[The Hurricane]

VW Polo has outstanding built quality and finish... but the rear seat and the reat space( Head and Leg) is pathetic....But the figo has an understated look which comes with fantastic handling, interior room and Pricing... way to go ford.... Plus with so many new Ford Showrooms and service centers... not to forget the lower cost of spare parts for the Figo... my vote goes in for the Ford Figo....

[Amartya]

Originally Posted by formel_eins

Booking a Polo does incline me towards it, but it does not mean I overlooked the shortcomings but there has to a basis for the same. I think you got it wrong, I made no comparison regarding refinements. All I wanted to say was 3-cylinders having an engineering issue is a very generalized statement. If there is an engineering issue in 3-cylinder of Polo do share your knowledge on the same, I would appreciate it.

I don't think I got it wrong, refinement is not something that comes by simply adding layers of insulating material along the bonnet to muffle noise, it has everything to do with engineering.

If that is clear, then I can tell you how most 3-cylinder engines have a power stroke every 240 degrees (simple, rotation of the crankshaft twice = (360*2)/number of cylinders) and that they are "silent" for 60degrees. Basically a power stroke can last for 180 degrees (240-180 = 60 degrees of silence for 3-cylinder engines), which if you do the math is exactly equal to that for a 4-cylinder engine. So, each cylinder fires one after the other to generate a more even power curve. Now that was probably a very simplistic view, but that is the exact engineering challenge that cannot be wished away.

If you read Sawyer's point right after my reply, I am fine with that, he says that one shouldn't hold the 3-cylinder drawback to vilify the whole car. I agree, but I fail to understand why VW tries to pull a fast one (at saving costs, and gaining perhaps .25km/ltr of bragging rights) by giving us a 3-pot unit. Heck, Maruti has one of the best 4-cyl 1.2 litre mills in the country, it's a Suzuki unit, is VW so incompetent at engineering that they couldn't make a 1.2 litre 4 cyl. engine? Let me answer that too, I really respect VW's engineering, it is purely their bean counters dictating the terms here. I'd like to ask you a question, why do you think that VW's 1.6 litre engine (one that is scheduled to arrive in India) has 4 cylinders? They could have just had 3, if Tata can make a 3-litre engine (the 3.0 in the 407 and the Safari Dicor) with 4 cyinders, surely 3 would be enough for 1.6 litres.

[Twiny]

Originally Posted by The Hurricane

VW Polo has outstanding built quality and finish... but the rear seat and the reat space( Head and Leg) is pathetic....

I second that, the rear seating angle and space is very pathetic, also its rear centre tunnel height is too much for the middle seater.

[rajivn]

Originally Posted by formel_eins

Successful platform sounds good, how about Innovation?? If the platform is successful then why does Ford need a new platform, they could have continued with it in other markets too?? In reality every product has a life cycle, what Ford does is develops and sells latest products in other markets. Once the products reach their life cycle it brings them to India, I think we deserve much better than that and we dont need this ageing products from Ford. look at Hyundai which brought its global platform in form of i10, i20 to India, Toyota who brought theirs in form of Innova and Fortuner, VW brings the platform in form of Polo. Even though the features on Indian makes may differ from ones available abroad, the important thing is freshness of product in form of exterior looks and base platform. Figo spells AGE to me and even though platform is proven I deserve a global platform, a fresh product

Innovation is not just producing new product, it is also about how one can reuse older product to produce a new product that can give a run to most of the competing products. Its a business decision.

There are people who dont care about the platform, brand values and philosophies, engineering, etc in car. All they want is max bang for the buck. And there are people who value all that I mentioned and would love to be associated with a certain brand and its products. Its an individual choice and I totally respect your choice.

While Ford has built a VFM product, I would also say its no way inferior and its as much a world class product as Beat or Swift or Polo is. Figo is a genuine attempt from Ford to provide a world class VFM product to the Indian consumers. I dont care how they achieved it.

On the other hand, Polo an acclaimed and award winning international car debuts only to realize its not going to be an easy ride here and the demanding people here need more for less(bucks). India's auto market and hatch segment in specific has grown and growing wildly with cut throat competition. So, companies are forced to give their best, anything less than best is gonna be rejected in the free market. So, I think Ford has given their best and not treated India as a place that would accept some B grade products.

For the ones craving for International spec cars, the much acclaimed and raved about Fiesta sedan and Fiesta hatch are coming in 2011.

In general, these could be the initial reactions, Wow, one can get a VW car for just 4.50L (ex), its cool. But, when one compares with competing cars and tries to take informed decision, the initial 'wow, its cool' would turn to 'hmmm, not bad'. The same might happen for Figo too. The ones that wows most people will win or maybe both will do well in the market.

I would put my money on Figo and good to see that Figo and Polo are almost neck to neck in this poll here.