Should we be PATRIOTIC while choosing a car?

DrunkenMonk · 10th October 2005, 09:50

Sure, you can go-in for patriotism if you like, crap, shoddily built, outdated products.

- dm

zaphod · 10th October 2005, 11:19

Maybe it would be good to feel patriotic if you choose a vehicle which has at least been assembled , if not completely built, in India. - That way at least some employment and revenue is generated.

However, when it comes to Mahindra, patriotism be damned - the only reason i'd buy a mahindra would be if i can;t find any other cheap 4x4 for my farm - after my horrendous experience with the Armada , I think that M&M are a bunch of incompetent idiots (and I'm being extremely polite when i say so) who havent made a single vehicle which can be called half way decent.

When we bought each of our cars , the thought of them being Indian or not never entered our minds - infact - our first car purchased in 1982 - a 77 beetle was built in Germany - and that was the reason we bought it - we couldnt afford another'foreign car' and didnt want to settle for the crappy padminis and ambys but the beetle was a tried and tested design and gave us almost 250,000 KM of service before we had to sell it off (the reason being we needed money after our accident in the f****** armada).

Tata however have come out with some decent vehicles, they could still do with better finish and definitely better and smoother diesels.

Then again, do we have a single vehicle which is truly Indian and has no foreign input at all ?

Maruti - and even Hyundai I'd say are now considered to be almost Indian vehicles - These companies have invested a lot in India and are making India their export hubs - providing a lot of investment and employment.

zaphod

AvinashKeezh · 10th October 2005, 14:24

if i get a car from an indian company and a outsider with the same specs, the same trim levels, and same everything (price included), then alone would i opt for the indian make, but since most of we car buyers are putting in our hard earned moneies, we do have the right to go in for what we feel is the best!!! there lies my two pence!!

Wheeliej · 23rd March 2006, 17:31

Guys, pls remember that about 50% of the cost of each car goes to the Indian government in one form or another (import duty, Excise duty, sales tax, road tax, service tax, etc). We are all being patriotic when we buy any product in India. For the kind of money we have to pay for buying any vehicle in India, I would go for the best product.

supremeBaleno · 7th July 2006, 11:57

Sorry to bump up an old thread, but could not resist.

In today's context, what does patriotism have to do with buying a product - be it a car or a dress ? It did make sense to opt for local stuff pre-Independence, because it was a form of non-violent, but quite effective means of bringing the colonialists to their knees. Today, we are a free country, globalisation is not a bad word anymore, markets around the world are opening up and even in India, the consumer is becoming the crucial factor around which businesses are being built.

What matters today is quality of the product compared to the competition and the consumer's perception of the same. Buying a Honda or a Ford, does not make me any less patriotic than someone who chooses a Tata. All these brands are legally available in India, and if it were unpatriotic to buy their products, the Govt. would not allow them in the first place.

An unpatriotic purchase in my perception would involve patronising the grey market, which promotes smuggling and leads to loss of revenue (customs, other levies) for the government, thereby reducing the resources that could otherwise have been deployed to develop India. You don't get cars at the local smuggler's, so this is not an issue like with other smuggled goods. But if someone is importing a car, and evading the customs on it, that is unpatriotic and we have quite a few examples of even renowned and rich personalities who have tried that route and in most cases also got away with it.

tifosikrishna · 7th July 2006, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

S
What matters today is quality of the product compared to the competition and the consumer's perception of the same. Buying a Honda or a Ford, does not make me any less patriotic than someone who chooses a Tata. All these brands are legally available in India, and if it were unpatriotic to buy their products, the Govt. would not allow them in the first place.

i think the question has been understood in the wrong context. it is not about paying taxes irrespective of indian or foreign make, or to do with brands being legally available in india.. its just about the feeling of pride of owning a "made in india" car and proving the world that we are right up there...

Quote:

I totally agree with busa. But, if there were two cars that fit my requirements, had equal quality levels, had equal prices, I would, sure as hell, go for the Indian-made car.

Because I believe that Indian engineers can cut it with the best in the world, and they have perspectives that no engineer from Europe or America or Japan would have. They have endured constraints that no first-world engineer ever had, and they have come out on top.

I totally agree with what has been said here...

supremeBaleno · 7th July 2006, 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosikrishna

i think the question has been understood in the wrong context. it is not about paying taxes irrespective of indian or foreign make, or to do with brands being legally available in india..

It is possible that the question was mis-understood. I went by the dictionary definition of patriot, which was "one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests". I did not see any contradiction between my loving my country, but buying a car of foreign origin, for whatsoever reasons. I would still remain a patriot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tifosikrishna

its just about the feeling of pride of owning a "made in india" car and proving the world that we are right up there...

With due respect to all the strides that India is making in various fields, I don't think we are still at a point where we can showcase a true-blue Indian car, which is on par with the best out there. When that day comes (and hopefully it will come soon), I would be proud of the same.

sumitkalindi · 7th July 2006, 15:59

Since Sumo is a completely Indian vehicle let me start with it.

The main competitor of Sumo, is tavera, and qualis was a competitor, I can not really get any other vehicle to compete with it.

If I buy a sumo I would be Patriotic, however, Since i am using it for a business, which is helping me and my country, the more repairs, and more break down, the more un patriotic I am. Qualis was the king, so I would surely dump sum for qualis, which helps my business, and my country.

But after the demise of qualis, tavera is not in the same league. It has *** issues. So wins Sumo.

Now its for you all to decide if it all makes any sense.

The main thing is, I choose the most suitable vehicle. And that is being patriotic. Purchasing a gas guzzling amby ( Sorry no offence intended )
only pushes our country to oil imports. while a maruti uses the last drop of precious fuel, which is good for person, as well as nation.

rks · 7th July 2006, 16:44

It is in the country's long-term interest to promote a free-market economy. Anyone who brings in bogus considerations that go against this principle is unpatriotic. The country has a duty to make the best available products to its people at a fair price and it is each individual's choice to purchase the best available product, purely on considerations of merit. Imagine the pollution levels on our roads if we were still buying ambassadors and fiats, and imagine the amount of extra oil that we would have to import if all the fuel-efficient modern vehicles were to be replaced by ambassadors and fiats. These are just two out of many reasons why we should not be driving ambys and fiats. However India has a right to ask the foreign manufacturers to shift operations to India and eventually transfer the technology to their Indian counterparts, as is being done.

I am reminded of an ugly scene in the US whereby a Japanese car was smashed up in Detroit by some Ford/GM/Chrysler employees and this was shown on TV as though it were something to be proud of. The fact is that the Japanese were making superior cars, and the Americans rightly went for the best available product. The US action of intimidating Japan into "voluntarily" restricting its exports of cars is totally unpatriotic and against the principles upheld by the US.

sidharth_j · 7th July 2006, 17:30

In the end, its your money, and you need to buy the best quality that it affords you to.

No question of patriotism in this case.

amit · 7th July 2006, 21:52

This thread reminds me of the North America scenario where there is a huge arguement over domestics (GM, Ford, Chrysler) V/s Imports (Honda, Toyota mainly since they are killing the american companies). Fact is most of Honda and Toyota cars are being manufactured in US so, they are as domestic as the big three.

As for this thread, if I can get a Indian designed, developed and manufactured car thats as good as non-Indian cars, I will buy it. If I was Japanese, I would buy a Honda over Ford or VW anyday because my cars are as good as others. Similarly, if I was German, I would buy VW, Audi, BMW over honda, toyota, ford because my country makes cars as good as anyone else. But, yea if i was American, I would buy Honda over GM or Ford!

theMAG · 7th July 2006, 22:17

I am gonna buy those brands that repesent VFM - no prejudice there. However I am sure of 2 things:

1. Tata Motors cars will continue to represent great VFM into the future.

2. No way I'll ever buy a Pakistani car

caliper · 8th June 2007, 14:57

Well, the question is are corporations ever "patriotic"? Ask that of Tata, which is creating BPO centers in China, African, and South American/E. European countries. Why aren't they staying in India, giving jobs to Indians, and being "patriotic"?

They're doing this for the same reason consumers buy the top car regardless of country of registration of the corporation that created it: Looking out for #1 (i.e., yourself).

risga · 8th June 2007, 17:27

Approaching the issue from the opposite perspective.

Given that India imports nearly 70% of its oil requirements; and being patriotic means buying only "Made in India" products, then do not buy a car which will run on imported fuel.

anonymous · 8th June 2007, 18:17

I was not able to give my vote, as the Poll is closed but my vote is for second option--"No..I need the best. dont care about who makes it". If I am spending my hard earned money, I want best and if companies like TATA or M&M are thinking in this way and only interested in making money from customers, why would I???

View Poll Results: Should we be patriotic while choosing a new Car?
Yes..patriotism must prevail over other factors	4	8.70%
No..I need the best. dont care about who makes it	42	91.30%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

10th October 2005, 09:50	#31
DrunkenMonk BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 80 Thanked: 3 Times View My Garage	Sure, you can go-in for patriotism if you like, crap, shoddily built, outdated products. - dm
	() Thanks

10th October 2005, 11:19	#32
zaphod BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: NO IDeA/Madurai Posts: 236 Thanked: 4 Times	Maybe it would be good to feel patriotic if you choose a vehicle which has at least been assembled , if not completely built, in India. - That way at least some employment and revenue is generated. However, when it comes to Mahindra, patriotism be damned - the only reason i'd buy a mahindra would be if i can;t find any other cheap 4x4 for my farm - after my horrendous experience with the Armada , I think that M&M are a bunch of incompetent idiots (and I'm being extremely polite when i say so) who havent made a single vehicle which can be called half way decent. When we bought each of our cars , the thought of them being Indian or not never entered our minds - infact - our first car purchased in 1982 - a 77 beetle was built in Germany - and that was the reason we bought it - we couldnt afford another'foreign car' and didnt want to settle for the crappy padminis and ambys but the beetle was a tried and tested design and gave us almost 250,000 KM of service before we had to sell it off (the reason being we needed money after our accident in the f****** armada). Tata however have come out with some decent vehicles, they could still do with better finish and definitely better and smoother diesels. Then again, do we have a single vehicle which is truly Indian and has no foreign input at all ? Maruti - and even Hyundai I'd say are now considered to be almost Indian vehicles - These companies have invested a lot in India and are making India their export hubs - providing a lot of investment and employment. zaphod
	() Thanks

10th October 2005, 14:24	#33
AvinashKeezh BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 234 Thanked: 11 Times	if i get a car from an indian company and a outsider with the same specs, the same trim levels, and same everything (price included), then alone would i opt for the indian make, but since most of we car buyers are putting in our hard earned moneies, we do have the right to go in for what we feel is the best!!! there lies my two pence!!
	() Thanks

23rd March 2006, 17:31	#34
Wheeliej BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 284 Thanked: 47 Times	Nothing Patriotic about buying an Indian car Guys, pls remember that about 50% of the cost of each car goes to the Indian government in one form or another (import duty, Excise duty, sales tax, road tax, service tax, etc). We are all being patriotic when we buy any product in India. For the kind of money we have to pay for buying any vehicle in India, I would go for the best product.
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 11:57	#35
supremeBaleno Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chennai / Kochi Posts: 5,546 Thanked: 2,698 Times View My Garage	Sorry to bump up an old thread, but could not resist. In today's context, what does patriotism have to do with buying a product - be it a car or a dress ? It did make sense to opt for local stuff pre-Independence, because it was a form of non-violent, but quite effective means of bringing the colonialists to their knees. Today, we are a free country, globalisation is not a bad word anymore, markets around the world are opening up and even in India, the consumer is becoming the crucial factor around which businesses are being built. What matters today is quality of the product compared to the competition and the consumer's perception of the same. Buying a Honda or a Ford, does not make me any less patriotic than someone who chooses a Tata. All these brands are legally available in India, and if it were unpatriotic to buy their products, the Govt. would not allow them in the first place. An unpatriotic purchase in my perception would involve patronising the grey market, which promotes smuggling and leads to loss of revenue (customs, other levies) for the government, thereby reducing the resources that could otherwise have been deployed to develop India. You don't get cars at the local smuggler's, so this is not an issue like with other smuggled goods. But if someone is importing a car, and evading the customs on it, that is unpatriotic and we have quite a few examples of even renowned and rich personalities who have tried that route and in most cases also got away with it.
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 15:59	#38
sumitkalindi BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kolkata Posts: 376 Thanked: 17 Times View My Garage	Since Sumo is a completely Indian vehicle let me start with it. The main competitor of Sumo, is tavera, and qualis was a competitor, I can not really get any other vehicle to compete with it. If I buy a sumo I would be Patriotic, however, Since i am using it for a business, which is helping me and my country, the more repairs, and more break down, the more un patriotic I am. Qualis was the king, so I would surely dump sum for qualis, which helps my business, and my country. But after the demise of qualis, tavera is not in the same league. It has *** issues. So wins Sumo. Now its for you all to decide if it all makes any sense. The main thing is, I choose the most suitable vehicle. And that is being patriotic. Purchasing a gas guzzling amby ( Sorry no offence intended ) only pushes our country to oil imports. while a maruti uses the last drop of precious fuel, which is good for person, as well as nation.
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 16:44	#39
rks BANNED Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ?? Posts: 1,238 Thanked: 17 Times	It is in the country's long-term interest to promote a free-market economy. Anyone who brings in bogus considerations that go against this principle is unpatriotic. The country has a duty to make the best available products to its people at a fair price and it is each individual's choice to purchase the best available product, purely on considerations of merit. Imagine the pollution levels on our roads if we were still buying ambassadors and fiats, and imagine the amount of extra oil that we would have to import if all the fuel-efficient modern vehicles were to be replaced by ambassadors and fiats. These are just two out of many reasons why we should not be driving ambys and fiats. However India has a right to ask the foreign manufacturers to shift operations to India and eventually transfer the technology to their Indian counterparts, as is being done. I am reminded of an ugly scene in the US whereby a Japanese car was smashed up in Detroit by some Ford/GM/Chrysler employees and this was shown on TV as though it were something to be proud of. The fact is that the Japanese were making superior cars, and the Americans rightly went for the best available product. The US action of intimidating Japan into "voluntarily" restricting its exports of cars is totally unpatriotic and against the principles upheld by the US.
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 17:30	#40
sidharth_j BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney, AU Posts: 139 Thanked: 36 Times View My Garage	In the end, its your money, and you need to buy the best quality that it affords you to. No question of patriotism in this case.
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 21:52	#41
amit Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 3,717 Thanked: 449 Times	This thread reminds me of the North America scenario where there is a huge arguement over domestics (GM, Ford, Chrysler) V/s Imports (Honda, Toyota mainly since they are killing the american companies). Fact is most of Honda and Toyota cars are being manufactured in US so, they are as domestic as the big three. As for this thread, if I can get a Indian designed, developed and manufactured car thats as good as non-Indian cars, I will buy it. If I was Japanese, I would buy a Honda over Ford or VW anyday because my cars are as good as others. Similarly, if I was German, I would buy VW, Audi, BMW over honda, toyota, ford because my country makes cars as good as anyone else. But, yea if i was American, I would buy Honda over GM or Ford!
	() Thanks

7th July 2006, 22:17	#42
theMAG Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Avon, CT Posts: 7,217 Thanked: 1,807 Times View My Garage	I am gonna buy those brands that repesent VFM - no prejudice there. However I am sure of 2 things: 1. Tata Motors cars will continue to represent great VFM into the future. 2. No way I'll ever buy a Pakistani car
	() Thanks

8th June 2007, 14:57	#43
caliper BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: India Posts: 160 Thanked: 3 Times	Well, the question is are corporations ever "patriotic"? Ask that of Tata, which is creating BPO centers in China, African, and South American/E. European countries. Why aren't they staying in India, giving jobs to Indians, and being "patriotic"? They're doing this for the same reason consumers buy the top car regardless of country of registration of the corporation that created it: Looking out for #1 (i.e., yourself).
	() Thanks

8th June 2007, 17:27	#44
risga BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 233 Thanked: 59 Times	Approaching the issue from the opposite perspective. Given that India imports nearly 70% of its oil requirements; and being patriotic means buying only "Made in India" products, then do not buy a car which will run on imported fuel. Last edited by risga : 8th June 2007 at 17:29.
	() Thanks

8th June 2007, 18:17	#45
anonymous BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: NCR Posts: 565 Thanked: 25 Times	I was not able to give my vote, as the Poll is closed but my vote is for second option--"No..I need the best. dont care about who makes it". If I am spending my hard earned money, I want best and if companies like TATA or M&M are thinking in this way and only interested in making money from customers, why would I???
	() Thanks