Diesel Toyota Altis confirmed! ARAI FE of 21.43 kpl. Update: Now Launched!

SkyWalker · 21st July 2010, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

SkyWalker. Corrolla/Altis has never been a drivers car. It has always catered to the Taxi/Chauffer segment plus a number of people for whom absolute performance is not a requisite.

Well, its never been the segments worst performer either. I agree the handling was not great - but the engine surely was peppy and has a strong low end and mid range.

Right now it looks like the Corolla will be the snail among 10+L cars. I am sure it will still sell in huge numbers and they will have to close booking for 6 months.

sidindica · 21st July 2010, 17:22

Is the car really that bad? Lemme post a First Drive report.

MCR · 21st July 2010, 17:23

Its the overall package which is good, not the engine. The engine may have lack lustre performance but the selling points will be Toyota brand value in India and the reputation of Toyota. But its no comparison to Cruze which is an absolute scorcher in performance on road.

OT : May be Hyundai will compare Altis with i20 and come out with an add soon. LOL.

akj53 · 21st July 2010, 17:34

I have an Altis and I think that 'peace of mind and comfort' are it's biggest advantages. I am sure over 95% customers also look for these factors plus the almost mandatory milage factor, which Toyota has added with the diesel. I fully agree with the turbo lag concern, but high milage customers like companies, taxi operators and individual customers will find it irresistible. Sadly performance enthusiasts form a small minority in India so high performance cars will remain a rarity.

ACM · 21st July 2010, 17:35

Sid and GTO is a race to the first FD report.

How about throwing in a comparo with the Manza Diesel, Verna Diesel, Cruz Diesel for good measure.

Is it worth the money?
and for the money is something else better?

How much is resale value, moderate brand snob value, implied reliability actually worth?

PCS · 21st July 2010, 17:43

I agree with most of you on the smaller size of the engine.

But, I also think there is too much criticism about the same.
Octavia was launched with a 90bhp engine, and it was a hit by Skoda's standards.

The launch has just happened today. We will have to test drive the car and see if the performace is adequate or not. Its too early to comment now about its performance. Waiting for some of the BHPians to drive and post reviews.

Also, from Maruti's recent "MILEAGE" campaign, the mentality of Indians, 800 owners to Rolls owners, seems to be the same. All are more bothered about the fuel efficiency the most. Going by what market leader Maruti has to say, guess the Altis Diesel will do really well for itself.

JJames · 21st July 2010, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by fuhrer

I really dont understand how you call it a Lesser Engine, everything except the linea looks under powered compared to Altis engine. In that case is anyone ready to go for a TATA-FIAT combo over toyota to save about 5 Lakhs? Overall size Altis looks bigger than other car being the widest of all. Being an Indian Bigger the Better.

When it comes to refinement i believe Toyota has done a better job. This class as such is for Luxury and Brand Image more than enthusiasm so toyota has everything it needs to rule the market. I accept the fact that its less powerful compared to Laura/cruze but the comfort offered by the altis and the after sales service offered by Toyota makes it a more desirable car over the others.

Let me clarify my point: I absolutely agree with you on the build quality, *** & build-to-last reliability of a Toyota. However, for a car so heavy, it is a big let down to have just 85bhp: the Power to Weight ratio could become a factor here. Underpowered is relative; 85bhp may hold good for cars a segment lesser. I am in no way suggesting that a potential Corolla customer would opt for a Verna or Swift Dzire. Just suggesting that a Dzire or a Verna, with similar engines, but with lesser weight will give better performance than a Heavy but underpowered Corolla D. But take a look at the competition that it has got: Cruze (150bhp- turbo lag in low revv overcome with its 6AT model), Laura, Jetta (its new 2.0 engine); also keep in mind the upcoming Civic D.
Like some one already mentioned here, Corolla's strength has never been performance (it is more of a family car than a luxury/sports model across the globe), but even its petrol engine is capable of 130bhp. Already there are reports (from TDs) that support the theory: significant turbo lags are experienced. For its sheer build quality & brand image, it might sell a few numbers but it sure would be far from being a hit.

LonelyPlanet · 21st July 2010, 20:06

Its all about having an accurate pulse of the the Indian market - all other things dont count as much.

Lets see 6 months from now as to who on this thread got it right and who wrong ?

fuhrer · 21st July 2010, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJames

Let me clarify my point: I absolutely agree with you on the build quality, *** & build-to-last reliability of a Toyota. However, for a car so heavy, it is a big let down to have just 85bhp: the Power to Weight ratio could become a factor here. Underpowered is relative; 85bhp may hold good for cars a segment lesser. I am in no way suggesting that a potential Corolla customer would opt for a Verna or Swift Dzire. Just suggesting that a Dzire or a Verna, with similar engines, but with lesser weight will give better performance than a Heavy but underpowered Corolla D. But take a look at the competition that it has got: Cruze (150bhp- turbo lag in low revv overcome with its 6AT model), Laura, Jetta (its new 2.0 engine); also keep in mind the upcoming Civic D.
Like some one already mentioned here, Corolla's strength has never been performance (it is more of a family car than a luxury/sports model across the globe), but even its petrol engine is capable of 130bhp. Already there are reports (from TDs) that support the theory: significant turbo lags are experienced. For its sheer build quality & brand image, it might sell a few numbers but it sure would be far from being a hit.

I completely agree with you. If at all you have mentioned the word power to weight ratio in your previous post i wouldnt have made a fuzz about it. I thought you are claiming the engine as such is lesser power than the ones in the other cars. You are right if you calculate Bhp/Ton i think its the corolla D which will be in the last place. And after reading the review from ACI i feel i'm wrong about my claim of it being a practical car withing city limits. I know a 1.4L D will have huge turbo lag but expected the VGT to take care of it, looks like it didnt.

Are you sure the Civic D is coming to India? If i'm not mistaken the only Diesel Engine Developed by Honda is the one which was developed for the current generation civic, but the other day i read in another site which said the said 2.2 engine is expected in Accord and CR-V in india. So i have my doubts whether they will use the same engine in the smaller civic and correct me if i'm wrong i dont think honda has any other diesel engine.

jaysmokesleaves · 22nd July 2010, 00:42

Toyota is at it again. Shortchanging the Indian customer.
First the ugly looking breadbox on wheels - Qualis.
Then the Fortuner with drum brakes at the rear.
Now the Altis with a small capacity diesel mill that should actually find itself in a Yaris or Echo.
Well, we deserve it!!

.anshuman · 22nd July 2010, 00:59

Toyota have come up with very good pricing. The Altis Diesel is sure to get the sales charts on Fire. The pricing is even lower than the competitively priced Cruze.

But Both Laura and Cruze are still better cars to drive, not only because they have a huge power advantage but they also have much better Ride and Handling setup. The Corolla was never a car for the enthusiasts, now the Altis diesel with the much weaker engine than the competition still won't please them.

Personally i would never buy this car, even if i was in market to buy a diesel car in this price bracket.

EDIT: I Just read the first drive report by ACI posted here. According to them 0-100kph comes in 15secs, the in gear acceleration times are even worse at 20-80 in 3rd: 14.85s and 40-100 in 4th: 20.53s, the turbo lag is told to be severe too.

MAS · 22nd July 2010, 07:35

Wow!!! Altis D has been launced at a price betweed 10.95 Lakhs to 13.75 Lakhs. Apart from being diesel, it comes equipped with a six-speed transmission system and delivers 88.4 PS with a mileage of 21.43 kmpl. Even taking 25% off on the mileage, it could still milk out 15-16 kmpl, which is enormous.

I really feel that Mr. Hiroshi Nakagawa is being very conservative about the volumes they expect to sell. With this kind of pricing and the mileage, there will be a lot of customers who will upgrade from a "Verna" types to this new kid in town.

Way to go Toyota

. This is going to smoke competition.

SID: The instrument cluster looks like a TATA Sumo.

shuvc · 22nd July 2010, 08:13

Haven't read through the thread fully. But the Diesel specs, prices etc are up in the Toyota site.

Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel
Toyota - Corolla Altis
Toyota - Pricelist

Looks like the variants are HJ, HG and HL? If so,

Kolkata prices:
HJ 11,06,000
HG 12,83,500
HL 13,83,500

The Cruze LTZ Manual costs 13.13 Ex-show in Kolkata. The Altis top end is more expensive. It's priced almost at par with the Cruze AT (13.95). Don't think this translates to fab pricing.

But yes, it will still sell. Forget the specs. For most people all that will matter is that it is a Toyota Corolla and a Diesel.

//M · 22nd July 2010, 08:32

A diesel Toyota Corolla is a reason enough for the competition to worry. I agree the Cruze has better specifications and the Jetta has a more upmarket feel to it. But look at the Fortuner's innings in India. It is not the perfect SUV, but the demand has forced the company to close its bookings. I'm sure the Altis diesel is going to set the sales chart on fire. Most companies will dream to have such response to their products. Even the Etios looks plain boring, but it will sell better than its rivals as it is a Toyota, peace of mind being a standard feature.

sbraj · 22nd July 2010, 08:58

I expect Laura to be sold now with lots of discounts and freebies. GM may have to introduce extended warranty as standard for Cruze.

Will Altis diesel have an impact on Honda City sales?

21st July 2010, 17:22	#347
sidindica Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 4,890 Thanked: 8,101 Times	Is the car really that bad? Lemme post a First Drive report. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by sidindica : 21st July 2010 at 17:24.
	() Thanks

21st July 2010, 17:23	#348
MCR BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: BLR/MYS Posts: 882 Thanked: 637 Times View My Garage	Its the overall package which is good, not the engine. The engine may have lack lustre performance but the selling points will be Toyota brand value in India and the reputation of Toyota. But its no comparison to Cruze which is an absolute scorcher in performance on road. OT : May be Hyundai will compare Altis with i20 and come out with an add soon. LOL. Last edited by MCR : 21st July 2010 at 17:25.
	() Thanks

21st July 2010, 17:34	#349
akj53 BHPian Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: NOIDA, Manchester & Cardiff Posts: 585 Thanked: 92 Times	I have an Altis and I think that 'peace of mind and comfort' are it's biggest advantages. I am sure over 95% customers also look for these factors plus the almost mandatory milage factor, which Toyota has added with the diesel. I fully agree with the turbo lag concern, but high milage customers like companies, taxi operators and individual customers will find it irresistible. Sadly performance enthusiasts form a small minority in India so high performance cars will remain a rarity.
	() Thanks

21st July 2010, 17:35	#350
ACM Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,745 Thanked: 4,361 Times View My Garage	Sid and GTO is a race to the first FD report. How about throwing in a comparo with the Manza Diesel, Verna Diesel, Cruz Diesel for good measure. Is it worth the money? and for the money is something else better? How much is resale value, moderate brand snob value, implied reliability actually worth?
	() Thanks

21st July 2010, 17:43	#351
PCS BHPian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Bangalore Posts: 217 Thanked: 176 Times	I agree with most of you on the smaller size of the engine. But, I also think there is too much criticism about the same. Octavia was launched with a 90bhp engine, and it was a hit by Skoda's standards. The launch has just happened today. We will have to test drive the car and see if the performace is adequate or not. Its too early to comment now about its performance. Waiting for some of the BHPians to drive and post reviews. Also, from Maruti's recent "MILEAGE" campaign, the mentality of Indians, 800 owners to Rolls owners, seems to be the same. All are more bothered about the fuel efficiency the most. Going by what market leader Maruti has to say, guess the Altis Diesel will do really well for itself.
	() Thanks

21st July 2010, 20:06	#353
LonelyPlanet BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Jam-luru Posts: 321 Thanked: 124 Times	Its all about having an accurate pulse of the the Indian market - all other things dont count as much. Lets see 6 months from now as to who on this thread got it right and who wrong ?
	() Thanks

22nd July 2010, 00:42	#355
jaysmokesleaves Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mostly Mumbai Posts: 1,702 Thanked: 1,452 Times	Toyota is at it again. Shortchanging the Indian customer. First the ugly looking breadbox on wheels - Qualis. Then the Fortuner with drum brakes at the rear. Now the Altis with a small capacity diesel mill that should actually find itself in a Yaris or Echo. Well, we deserve it!!
	() Thanks

22nd July 2010, 00:59	#356
.anshuman Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Good-Gaon Posts: 7,763 Thanked: 11,064 Times View My Garage	Toyota have come up with very good pricing. The Altis Diesel is sure to get the sales charts on Fire. The pricing is even lower than the competitively priced Cruze. But Both Laura and Cruze are still better cars to drive, not only because they have a huge power advantage but they also have much better Ride and Handling setup. The Corolla was never a car for the enthusiasts, now the Altis diesel with the much weaker engine than the competition still won't please them. Personally i would never buy this car, even if i was in market to buy a diesel car in this price bracket. EDIT: I Just read the first drive report by ACI posted here. According to them 0-100kph comes in 15secs, the in gear acceleration times are even worse at 20-80 in 3rd: 14.85s and 40-100 in 4th: 20.53s, the turbo lag is told to be severe too. Last edited by .anshuman : 22nd July 2010 at 01:10.
	() Thanks

22nd July 2010, 07:35	#357
MAS Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 1,940 Thanked: 1,614 Times	Great Pricing Wow!!! Altis D has been launced at a price betweed 10.95 Lakhs to 13.75 Lakhs. Apart from being diesel, it comes equipped with a six-speed transmission system and delivers 88.4 PS with a mileage of 21.43 kmpl. Even taking 25% off on the mileage, it could still milk out 15-16 kmpl, which is enormous. I really feel that Mr. Hiroshi Nakagawa is being very conservative about the volumes they expect to sell. With this kind of pricing and the mileage, there will be a lot of customers who will upgrade from a "Verna" types to this new kid in town. Way to go Toyota . This is going to smoke competition. SID: The instrument cluster looks like a TATA Sumo. Last edited by MAS : 22nd July 2010 at 07:38.
	() Thanks

22nd July 2010, 08:13	#358
shuvc Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2005 Location: Kolkata Posts: 2,913 Thanked: 352 Times View My Garage	Haven't read through the thread fully. But the Diesel specs, prices etc are up in the Toyota site. Toyota Corolla Altis Diesel Toyota - Corolla Altis Toyota - Pricelist Looks like the variants are HJ, HG and HL? If so, Kolkata prices: HJ 11,06,000 HG 12,83,500 HL 13,83,500 The Cruze LTZ Manual costs 13.13 Ex-show in Kolkata. The Altis top end is more expensive. It's priced almost at par with the Cruze AT (13.95). Don't think this translates to fab pricing. But yes, it will still sell. Forget the specs. For most people all that will matter is that it is a Toyota Corolla and a Diesel.
	() Thanks

22nd July 2010, 08:32	#359
//M Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New Delhi Posts: 6,194 Thanked: 22,902 Times	A diesel Toyota Corolla is a reason enough for the competition to worry. I agree the Cruze has better specifications and the Jetta has a more upmarket feel to it. But look at the Fortuner's innings in India. It is not the perfect SUV, but the demand has forced the company to close its bookings. I'm sure the Altis diesel is going to set the sales chart on fire. Most companies will dream to have such response to their products. Even the Etios looks plain boring, but it will sell better than its rivals as it is a Toyota, peace of mind being a standard feature.
	() Thanks

22nd July 2010, 08:58	#360
sbraj Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: B L R / T V M Posts: 1,071 Thanked: 9 Times	I expect Laura to be sold now with lots of discounts and freebies. GM may have to introduce extended warranty as standard for Cruze. Will Altis diesel have an impact on Honda City sales?
	() Thanks