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Old 13th May 2010, 09:50   #31
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Let's hope this gets implemented and is followed religiously by the people. Congratulations to the associations for starting this initiative. However this does provide a second conduit for "corrupt" practices and we being in India very well know that this will route will inevitably be followed unless these initiatives are 1. goverment mandates and 2. reasonably priced.
As stated by the others, I'm of the opinion that this needs to be implemented. Maybe follow the Gulf's method; where the car needs to be taken for certification every year ( the date is synchronous with the date on which you bought the car) at the RTA. The police inspect the vehicle inside out and once things are to their liking, the 'fitness certificate' is issues and you can only then renew your insurance. If things fail, you need to get it rectified and then stand in the queue for the check.
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Old 13th May 2010, 09:56   #32
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This is a very good initiative as long as the cops don't use it for their own bribery - like after the PUC was introduced - cops used it to ensure that their pockets were filled
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Old 13th May 2010, 10:03   #33
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In some states in U.S, you need to get the pollution check done to renew your vehicle registration. The test is a thorough one which takes close to 30 minutes involving running the car on a tread mill in gear under different speeds. Dealerships do not do this and only few authorized centres can do this.
Here we have every petrol pump doing the PUC certification in a minute. Since this is a private initiative with lot of private workshops involved, who is going to certify their methods used to certify the vehicles.

Looks like a money making opportunity to the dealers/workshop.
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Old 13th May 2010, 12:50   #34
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Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
this looks to be something like the MOT in the UK - Ministry of Transport Certification.
it is a good initiative for us in India but I do hope that it doesnt progressively deteriorate into a mere eye-wash here like most things seem to do.
The MOT is too strict, it becomes very costly if running a vehicle over 8 years of age, i had learnt my lesson with that and used to buy cars that were between 4-6 years and keep for 2-3 years, my last 2 years of living there i had been introduced to a good mechanic who would overlook some minor items on condition you would fix them yourself. People i know in Bombay generally phone their garage for the PUC and some even have it delivered! Personally i won't do that as it's in my interests that the car is running how it should, so whilst this innitiative is positive i have my doubts about full or proper implimentation.
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Old 13th May 2010, 12:59   #35
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A very good initiative. This is similar to the TÜV (tuff) checks here in Germany. All vehicles are supposed to have the "main technical fitness" and "emission stickers" on their number plates. The sticker also shows the next due date for inspection.
Additionally, they have introduced mandatory environment friendliness stickers (green, yellow and red stickers). Green areas in the city will have a traffic sign displayed in green indicating a environment protection zone. You are allowed to drive here only if you have a green sticker on your car.

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Old 13th May 2010, 13:33   #36
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The first three years after buying a new vehicle there is no restrictions;
From the begin of Year 4 you need have the 'Vehicle Inspection Certificate' for its fitness at any of the Authorised centres. You need to have for the Insurance to be renewed. If you have Insurance only then the Road Tax can be renewed. The road tax here to be paid every year. This is the process for vehicles in singapore.

Last edited by sriny_blr : 13th May 2010 at 13:35.
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Old 13th May 2010, 19:01   #37
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In our land... laws are never the problem it is the implementation.

1) Another source of revenue for RTO touts
2) One more source of headache for law abiding citizens. Given the scruples of many a car dealers, it will be a nightmare for people driving older cars. for a 7-8 year old car, fitness certificate can always be denied under several reasons unless costly and sometimes non-needed repairs are carried out
3) Taxis and others driving with almost bald tires will always use the tout route.

In short unless implemented effectively and honestly... it can become a nightmare.
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Old 13th May 2010, 19:31   #38
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Originally Posted by aby View Post
1) Another source of revenue for RTO touts...
Problem is - there IS no RTO involved here. An MoT-like test being contemplated by a non-governmental group of automobile dealers and manufacturers shouldn't cut much ice with the general public. I wouldn't care, for one.

OTOH, the discount on insurance being offered will tempt more than a few - the gullible ones who, to save 500 rupees, will be duped of 5000 and more by dealers with long, sharp teeth and saliva dripping from their tongues (aahaa - murga aya hai) at the sight of such customers.
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Old 14th May 2010, 14:52   #39
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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
One can always do what is done in the US. Just switch the car to stock, get a check-up, then go back to whatever contraptions you've had installed on your car.
But doing that once / twice a year is deterrent enough. Most working professionals simply don't have the time. Remove freeflow exhaust (1/2 day), fit back stock exhaust (where did you store it all this time), get certification, remove stock exhaust (where will you store it again) and fit back free flow exhaust (1/2 day) .

The effect is only multiplied if you own multiple cars.

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
What's surprising is that this is a private initiative, and there appears to be no direct governmental participation in this.

The government is responsible for road safety
We've left it to the government and ended with the worlds highest car / fatal accident ratios! C'mon, 1.2 lakh Indians (or 14 each hour) die every year in road accidents. A large number of these accidents could boil down to poorly maintained vehicles + awful driver training. The former is being considered, only a matter of time before the latter follows through. I reiterate : STRICT zero-tolerance implementation is imperative to the success of this initiative.

Also, remember that the SIAM is playing a key role here. Auto manufacturers have a strong lobby in Delhi and if they push hard enough, the safe certificate program could realistically see light of day in the near future. I am ALL for it as long as, again, the implementation is super effective.

Last edited by GTO : 14th May 2010 at 14:55.
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Old 14th May 2010, 20:41   #40
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
We've left it to the government and ended with the worlds highest car / fatal accident ratios!
I'm afraid I'm going to turn that logic right on its head.

We left it to the government to issue driving licences, but driver training is completely a private enterprise (and a very profitable one at that, given the number of driving training schools each locality has). Once these private driving schools have received their money, they feel it their "duty" (and, indeed, are pressured) to get the learner his / her final DL - irrespective of whether he is even competent to drive!!! Hence comes into play the nexus between these training schools and the RTOs. The results are all so obvious.

I am going to drag in another analogy to this, in the sphere of what I do professionally. 20 years ago, there were hardly any private dental colleges. Today, their number far, far exceeds the number under govt. control. As a faculty in one such pvt. college, I am painfully aware how things work, and what calibre of dentists come out of their portals.

The end result is that the graduate from the govt. college is much more likely to be knowledgeable and competent in his work (which is not to say that all graduates from pvt. colleges are duffers), because the govt. college faculty are less pressured than the pvt, college ones by the management. Pressured to pass unsuitable candidates, because they paid the equivalent of a new Civic to receive their education and degree (the degree being more important than the education, similar to the DL being more important than the driver training).

Privatization and private enterprise with the single motto of "Let's make money" (as is the norm in India) is a perilous path.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 14th May 2010 at 20:44.
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Old 14th May 2010, 22:44   #41
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Originally Posted by ghodlur View Post
There you go, even before the proces is put to practice the loopholes are already identified.
It reminds me of a story. You've probably heard of it. Long ago, a kingdom - had a problem. There were many kids who did not get milk for breakfast. So the king's men thought about it and decided to make it compulsory for every able citizen to pour a glass of milk into a small depression in the land. The idea was to create a lake full of milk for all the hungry kids.
Guess what the lake finally had - water.

The point I am trying to get to is-> if we dont consider other's problems as our own, we'll never ever be able to make a better world for all of us.
I think the safety certificate is a great idea - but the success of the idea depends on how passionate each individual of the public are about it.

Otherwise , we'll always end up trying to beat the system while still paying for its existence with our tax Rs. Irony.
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Old 15th May 2010, 06:59   #42
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Trust us Indians to make simple things way too complicated! The proposal is far too complicated and corruption-prone to be practically of much benefit, apart from the service station / mfgrs / insurance cos...vehicle owners be damned.

What should actually be done:
First & foremost, a TRAI like independent body should be formed to track the implementation. Let's call this body MVRAI - Motor Vehicles Regulation Authority of India.

Like CIBIL, a central database can be maintained which will collate mfgrs,a.s.s and RTO's databases. Expand it further to rope in insurance cos databases as well.

1. Private vehicles
Since there is a strict tracking mechanism already in place by the vehicle mfgrs (don't we get service reminder SMSs every now & then), it should be the primary responsibility of the mfgrs that all vehicles sold are serviced as per mfgrs recommended schedule...at the time of service, a worthiness certificate should be issued and stuck on the vehicle.

Penalty Notices should be sent to the owners if the schedule is not met. MVRAI can audit the tracking periodically to ensure mfgrs are indeed following the guidelines.

2. Commerical vehicles like trucks/lorries/vans etc
Ditto as 1.

3. Govt owned Public Utility Vehicles used for public transport like buses
================================================== ===
To ensure that general public does'nt end up paying more fare & further encourage public transport usage, a corpus should be made for maintenance & upkeep of such vehicles using the penalty fees and various other fees which 1 & 2 above are already paying & will be paying. Part of the profits which a.s.s, mfgrs & insurance will end up making by way of increased business, should contribute a significant portion to this fund. At the minimum, Labor/inspection charges should be free for such vehicles, and replacement parts should be much cheaper. One way is to setup govt-owned exclusive inspection centers for inspecting govt-owned vehicles..since these centers will be bulk users of spare parts, special pricing can be negotiated with mfgrs - kind of army canteen prices.

4. Privately owned transport vehicles like buses/autos etc
Should be treated on par with 1 & 2

To start with, ignore any vehicle >5 yrs old and let them die their natural death, instead of wasting time/money over spilt milk.

Let's not burden the traffic police in enforcing such laws..there are ways & means to do it automatically.

If I am a pan holder, theoritically, any transaction > 20K is getting tracked..why then if I have regn number, the worthiness of a vehicle cannot be tracked thru a central monitoring system.

This way it is not a burden on the traffic police...the only thing they should be involved in to knock on the doors of offenders based on a list generated by this system.

Added benefits are tremendous - with a central database like this, the finmin can track tax evasion, create targetted awareness campaign, provide discounts of taxes on the next car upgrade (like clean Cibil record will get discounts on int rates)..just like cibil, charge usage fees for accessing the history of a particular vehicles and use this to self-finance running the show....possibilites are mind-boggling.

Not another manually controlled, corruption prone glorified PUC center please! Instead let's follow the successfull Cibil/Trai/UAID examples.
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Old 15th May 2010, 08:48   #43
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This will be a very good initiative if it is implemented with appropriate buy-in from RTO. As some members pointed out like some of the commercial vehicle owners are managing to get their FC out of the way, this initiative should not have such loop-holes for manipulation.
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Old 15th May 2010, 14:46   #44
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
C'mon, 1.2 lakh Indians (or 14 each hour) die every year in road accidents.
That looks an awfully big number, but we should remember that we Indians make up roughly 1 out of every 6 humans in this planet.

If you take the number of deaths per thousand we would fare much better than europe.

The same way number of Indians having Aids/ heart attacks is projected in advertisements of big corporate hospitals, as if we are the only society plauged by these high rate of fatal diseases.

Aren't public carriers certified every year with FC?
Yet they continue to roam like rudderles boats, spit fumes, kill innocent pedestrians and contribute to the maximum number of accidents..

Last edited by Daewood : 15th May 2010 at 15:05.
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Old 15th May 2010, 17:26   #45
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This initiative should be done by a strict private agency (validated by another one) and not by the regular dealers or any government organisations.
Indians can/will pass through any test of any vehicle at any time if it is run by any government agencies
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