[anujmishra]

Originally Posted by anachronix

Looks are of a personal taste

First you say Looks are of Personal taste.

Originally Posted by anachronix

The Manza is better than the Dzire in
2. Looks

Then you say Maza is better looking car than Dzire. Why Contradictory statement?

Originally Posted by anachronix

The Manza is better than the Dzire in
1. Space
2. Looks
3. Features
4. Price
5. Build Quality (except for the few QC glitches)

1. What data you have w.r.t to Space between Manza and Dzire? Please provide data?

2. People here not talking that suits individual wish? What is appealing in Manza? Get the opinion on Back of Manza.

3. Except Bluetooth compaibility? What extra features Manza has? Does it have Climate Control?

4. How much difference exactly in price ?

5. What do you mean by build quality? How scientifically you have tested? Is that putting KILOs of Steel would define build quality? Also you have itself gave answer in bracket (Please read frequent not few)

Quality of cars does not define by one's individual choice. It defines based on mass choice. Something is there in Dzire that is why people buy it.

For Some Fiat Fans: Maruti took Fiat Engine then only it was success and poeple are talking about engine, otherwise no body cared about this. Did Maruti used Fiat engine in Alto, 800, Zen, Wagon R too? Even Fiat is not able to sell his own engine in his own product. God save Punto, Linea etc. etc.

[shivasuma]

[quote=anujmishra;1882083]1. What data you have w.r.t to Space between Manza and Dzire? Please provide data?

Sorry, but this does not require any data at all. Just open the doors and have a look at both cars and you will know. I thought my fiesta was the most cramped sedan until I sat in a Dzire.

[amitoj]

I kind of fail to understand the point of this thread.
Still, i will say this for Manza. It definitely has more space. Space in terms of panel gaps. I saw a few of them up close and man, those gaps are huge! Does Tata expect the metal to expand in summers and close up the gap? First glance gives you the impression that the boot is not properly closed!!

[anachronix]

My reply in-line mate!

Originally Posted by anujmishra

1. What data you have w.r.t to Space between Manza and Dzire? Please provide data?
- Spend a little time on the checking out the car in person. The Dzire is as much cramped & claustrophobic as the Swift.

2. People here not talking that suits individual wish? What is appealing in Manza? Get the opinion on Back of Manza.
- Looks again is a personal opinion. The Manza has its proportions right compared to the Dzire. The C-pillar finish in the Dzire makes things more ugly. What's really wrong with the back of the Manza by the way. I dint find it bad?

3. Except Bluetooth compaibility? What extra features Manza has? Does it have Climate Control?
- Do you know that there is a powerful & more economical MJD spec under the hood of the Manza?

4. How much difference exactly in price ?
- Manza costs 11,000 INR less than the Dzire

5. What do you mean by build quality? How scientifically you have tested? Is that putting KILOs of Steel would define build quality? Also you have itself gave answer in bracket (Please read frequent not few)
- I know what build quality! I have seen a 2 year old Swift rattle away to glory and I have also a seen a Indica Vista perfectly in shape after 2 years. Touchwood. what I meant about QC was the inconsistency in having the same kind of quality across all the manufactured products. I have seen evidence of improvements from Tata.

Quality of cars does not define by one's individual choice. It defines based on mass choice. Something is there in Dzire that is why people buy it.

I repeat this again, Dzire has sold so many units for its USP as a VFM product. That's it! Nothing by the looks or build quality of the Dzire.

For Some Fiat Fans: Maruti took Fiat Engine then only it was success and poeple are talking about engine, otherwise no body cared about this. Did Maruti used Fiat engine in Alto, 800, Zen, Wagon R too? Even Fiat is not able to sell his own engine in his own product. God save Punto, Linea etc. etc.

Did you forget a ZenD & EsteemDi which were shown the exit door in months time from their launch?

What's this thread got to do with Fiat fans and why this ranting?

[theexperthand]

The title is misleading - I opened this one thinking that someone have covered 1/5L km in 2 years.

It is a commendable feat - 1.5L in 2 years, but does it really warrant a separate thread? It seems like this thread is also going to the Maruthi fan boys v/s fiat fan boys way - we can keep putting up points for and against DZire and Manza, but ultimately, it will never change the opinion of the people - opinions are individual matters, and are often very strong and stubborn.

[SinghBHP]

I agree with Most of the people above on 2 points
1) Title is "HIGHLY MISLEADING" , I entered thinking that somone made 1.5Lac KMs in his car/jeep/bike.
2) Dezire is the ugliest sedan available , It sells just because we do not have any Fresh option in that segment

[aniketi]

Sorry guys if title is misleading. I just wanted to keep it short & simple

Anyways i dont want people to fight here. Everybody has his own opinions. Initially i also find Dzire not very interesting but after some time i started liking it. May be because there are not much options available. But for sure its not the ugliest.

Compared to Manza, i guess Dzire is more refined & quality of parts is good than Manza. Also A.S.S. of MSIL is way ahead of TATA. It plays important part as well. Also its cheap. Lower model of petrol Dzire is cheaper than Manza. Though Manza had some more functionality.

Here in this thread, what i want to tell is that selling 1.5 Lacs sedans (some may debate here as well ) is cool. No body else has done it so far. In fact other manufacturers are not even able to make it (sales) with their small cars also. Thats a big thing for me.

[rpmx1000]

That's a good figure all right, but if any one asked me , I would never
recommend the Dzire. I would tell them to go and look at a Manza or
an ikon TDCi if they are price sensitive. If it is petrol, even the Aveo is a far far better car and available at similar prices,not to mention discount Fiestas. Nobody has a problem with selling a car at a base price. But if you want to put a boot on a car, why cannot you spend some rupees or yens and make a good product to sell rather than simply put a boot on a Swift that makes it look so bad. The Swift Dzire is a bad car, it simply does not deserve so much sales. Maruti is a miserly manufacturer in my dictionary. It does not deserve so much success. People are really foolish to buy a car that Maruti sells at such a high profit margin. I would not rate the Dzire as being worth more than 4-4.5 lakhs on road. and people shell out upwards of 7.5 L for ZXi/Zdis.

The point is - In general , Indians are starved of good cars. They don't have the sophistication to demand and expect good cars. That's why they pay more for inferior products and then call it the best. MUL is the one conning everyone and then laughing all the way to the bank. I for one would like to see an SX4 diesel sell at 20% less than the price of the Dzire. But market forces and dud indians who are happy with Undzirable dzires and celebrate them , on top makes me cringe. Sorry to spoil your fun. Just thought I would state my 2 cents or my feelings. I cannot help hating the Dzire. I ask why MUL cannot give a good car for the price they sell it at. But my fellow Indians and Bhp-ians don't care.As I rest my case - The Swift Dzire is no better than a ponzi scheme. I hope VW brings down the Bluemotion in the 1.2 diesel or the 1.2 TSI and offers it on par with the Swift on price. It's just a question of hitting your own profit margins and getting out of the "exclusive" tag.MUL will atleast bring down the price on this abomination.

[aniketi]

Thank god Fiat people launched Linea before Punto, else people would have said it as a Punto with boot. Both are good cars for me. They have same engines. Similarly Dzire & Manza are being developed. Still people are saying its not that good.

@Clevermax: If majority opinion matters then majority people are buying Dzire over Ikon, Fiesta, Aveo. So that proves majority liked it. Right?

@rpmx1000: People are giving 7.5 L for what they are getting. Its basically with MJD & features like Climate control, steering mounted controls, alloy wheels, ABS, Airbags & some more. So you can say it as almost fully loaded. You can cheat some people but not more than 1.5 L people.

So my point is if other cars are equally good & good looking then why it is not reflecting it in sales numbers? Hyundai has good A.S.S. still Accent is never a super hit. Same with Ford. Fiesta petrol may be cheap but never sells in numbers. Its FE is really bad. My X-neighbor never got even 10 in city. Highways it used to give 13 -14 max. Also service used to cost him big hole in his pocket. Aveo, no need to discuss also. They are not even able to sell 1000 per month.

[JustCause]

Originally Posted by aniketi

Thank god Fiat people launched Linea before Punto, else people would have said it as a Punto with boot. Both are good cars for me. They have same engines. Similarly Dzire & Manza are being developed. Still people are saying its not that good.

@Clevermax: If majority opinion matters then majority people are buying Dzire over Ikon, Fiesta, Aveo. So that proves majority liked it. Right?

@rpmx1000: People are giving 7.5 L for what they are getting. Its basically with MJD & features like Climate control, steering mounted controls, alloy wheels, ABS, Airbags & some more. So you can say it as almost fully loaded. You can cheat some people but not more than 1.5 L people.

So my point is if other cars are equally good & good looking then why it is not reflecting it in sales numbers? Hyundai has good A.S.S. still Accent is never a super hit. Same with Ford. Fiesta petrol may be cheap but never sells in numbers. Its FE is really bad. My X-neighbor never got even 10 in city. Highways it used to give 13 -14 max. Also service used to cost him big hole in his pocket. Aveo, no need to discuss also. They are not even able to sell 1000 per month.

The USP of Dzire has been:

1. Swift with a boot(more space).
2. Cheaper than an SX4.
3. 'Maruti' sedan.
4. Available ZDi variant.

You still find the rear end misbehaving and interfering with the dynamics, as compared to the swift.

Manza is the best car to be chauffeured in this side of 10 Lakhs.

I, having been driven in an SX4 and a Dzire, would prefer a Manza over them anyday.

[getsurya]

Dzire sells because of:

1. MUL brand image of 'sastha, tikaoo & chalega saloan saal' image!
2. Percieved VFM
3. Good engine
4. Other individual dependant features.

This is one UGLY looking car in India which is overpriced and deserves to get the 'boot'.
My sincere apologies for hurting anybody's sentiments.

[aniketi]

Poll is done over few hundred people only. Whereas Dzire is bought by 1.5 L users & still its selling like hot cakes. So people are liking it for sure. As simple as that.

I have seen people crying with so called "HANDSOME" cars like Ikon, Aveo & Fiesta. Also seen people going mary and smiling with Dzire

[srishiva]

Guys, think about all those satisfied owners (which is a big number). They could select a sedan for many reasons and have decided on Dzire.

We need to talk about what people liked about it so that it achieved such big numbers. Not try to talk about what we think.

[rpmx1000]

Dear aniketi,
" More than 1.5 lakh people trust it " is the reason it sells to common people who don't know the insides or the details . It is not a reason to justify that it is the best.It means those people did'nt bother to get their facts right.I don't need to explain it - Sales doesn't mean that the product is the best. Maruti gives what the consumer wants. I will admit that Maruti has the best marketing and a lot of people opinion riding for it. But that's it.

The argument I'm making is - If 1.5 lakh people buy it, it means they made the wrong choice without knowing the facts or ignoring or choosing to ignore the facts.
Nobody's preventing you from buying this dud. It's you who chose to buy it.What's worse is, you go and buy it because it is the top-seller.If someone feels differently, you cannot succeed in convincing them that you have the better car. The salesmen at MUL showrooms are not anywhere near qualified. I have yet to find an intelligent salesman.

There are other cars with the same FE, space and more practicality. There are reasons why I say it is overpriced. The manufacturer is making millions. I wish the effort was there to put in to give those people real value for their money. Let me put it like this. If you get a Fiesta with identical engine, same or better performance and better FE at the same price(or less) as a Dzire, would you still buy it? The Manza looks better (subjective), performs better, has the same space, more or less same FE and is far better equipped. Why aren't people buying it ? perception.
Somewhere I'm sure when you made your buying decision, you would have thought - 1.x lakh people could'nt have been wrong. Well , let me put that on its head. 1.5 lakh people were wrong.Why? because the Manza is more VFM.period.Any arguments against this are pointless.So the Dzire was the wrong choice.

The people who know better will buy the better car. I hope Maruti brings out a better car for me to even have an iota of respect.I can live with a lower FE.My car's far better than a Dzire. The rest did'nt really deserve a better deal.

And no apologies or political correctness.. I stand by what I said. 1.5 lakh people in this country chose a dud. I can understand if you did'nt have a choice, like the alternatives when choosing our government.But the ones who did,did . Too bad.

Srishiva, people can post whatever they want.If I feel strongly about something, I have the right to write about it.So i do. You feel bad about it, ignore and celebrate your Dzires.

[DRIV3R]

Ugly or not, let's not get there. I see many happy owners of the DZire, happy especially with the VFM, performance, FE and the Maruti A.S.S.