[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by WindRide

My friend took a TD of Punto 1.2. He was standing on the accelerator most of the time. He was in a foul mood later when i met him.

There are factors other than the engine that affect driveability, like kerb-weight, which in the case of a Punto (& most Fiats) is considerable, leading to bogging down the car. Actually, here we have a perfectly valid case for the manufacturer to go for a greater than 1.2l engine.

Originally Posted by Speed Pujari

I am ready to give away my Palio1.2 if I get a 100odd bhp 1.6L swift despite of my personal dislike towards maruti and love towards Fiat.

If you are so much for performance cars, why not go for the Palio Stile 1.6l 100bhp instead of waiting for a 1.6l car from a manufacturer you say you dislike ? Infact, if you were performance-oriented, why did you even go for the 1.2 version Palio in the first place ?

[Thad E Ginathom]

Will a 1.6, these days, power any car from 0-100 in less than 10 seconds?

I know there are many other measures, but that has been my rule of thumb for anything approaching "performance".

But, relatively speaking... yes... and with a Polo on my mind at the moment, waiting for the 1.6 is an interesting option.

[holysmoke]

TSI is the answer to all your woes. Seriously.. why cant VW launch the 1.2TSI when they can launch the 1.8 TSI

[vishwas]

The Indian government should give up this obsession with small engines and give the excise duty reduction based on (standardized) fuel efficiency. A smaller engine does not necessarily make a more fuel efficient vehicle and result in the least consumption of resources.

Case in point, I have gotten 30 miles per gallon ~ 12.6 kmpl on a 2.4L VTEC with automatic transmission and struggled to get as much on cars with much smaller engines. Similarly, I guess a 1.5L Honda City is much more thriftier with fuel than many 1.2L Cars.

Originally Posted by holysmoke

TSI is the answer to all your woes.

what does TSI mean? I ask, beside marketing terms

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by vishwas

I have gotten 30 miles per gallon ~ 12.6 kmpl on a 2.4L VTEC with automatic transmission and struggled to get as much on cars with much smaller engines.

Since you mention mpg, I am assuming the figure is from the US - on an Accord, I guess. A closest match to Indian conditions would be an Accord giving 12.6kmpl on highways, which is normal I would think. Which smaller-engined cars did not match this FE ?

Originally Posted by vishwas

I guess a 1.5L Honda City is much more thriftier with fuel than many 1.2L Cars.

Which version of City, because we have atleast 3 major versions running here? The NHC-iDSi was the most FE of all but I don't think even it can match the 1.2l K-series engines in FE.

Since we are talking excise and stuff, even the basic insurance charges in India are really skewed against cars above 1500cc.

Upto 1000cc, the 3rd party insurance (bare minimum insurance cover) is only 700 bucks. Cars with 1000-1500cc engines pay just another 100 bucks more (800), while anything above attracts 2500 bucks, which is more than 3 times.

[@ri]

As a recent buyer of a 1.2l car, which I have taken around the city (bangalore) as well as out for long drives.. this is what i feel
1. The car is absolutely fine for most of city driving
2. For the trips out on the highway, I find the power is pretty decent and does well on Indian roads. Maybe yes, having a bigger engine would have helped me get to 100 kph couple of seconds faster... but to be honest, the real opportunities to actually test the pick up to this speed is only after a toll plaza.
3. Talking about F.E., completely agree that the engine capacity is not a deciding factor. Bigger engines do give better mileage. One important consideration point is, because of the cost difference coming in, atleast there are lesser no of people who have more powerful cars. Not too many in India realise that more power = more responsibility.

Just consider this, what if Tata Indica's start coming with a bigger engine with more power? Imagine the increase in the number of "moronic" taxi drivers!!!!

4. Most of the time, the number of occupants in a car is 1 or 2. So pull does not come into the picture.
5. For the power hungry me, I would probably invest on some performance mods like a CAI to increase the whack in the engine....

[kiku007]

When this 1.2L madness will end ?
Ans: When people put their money where their mouth is i.e. Drool on a 1.6L/100 BHP car, write rave reviews about it, recommend it to every tom, dick and harry. But when they want to buy a car, somehow earthly realities come to play and they buy a FE 1.2L Petrol car.

The Indian Govt. can do it's part by scrapping the god damn <1.2L clause for small cars to get excise benefit and stop milking the hell out of Petrol car buyers to price diesel and kerosene cheaper.

[supremeBaleno]

@kiku007, you have summed it up brilliantly. The majority (on tbhp and otherwise) drool over performance variants of cars (Palio 1.6, City Vtec, Fiesta 1.6 etc), but when it comes to their purchase, it is the safe option of Palio 1.2, NHC-iDsi, Fiesta 1.4/TDCi etc. No wonder manufacturers don't see any incentive in offering choice and stick to the bread-and-butter 1.2 variants.

But I don't really think the 1.2l excise clause makes any difference (other than making cars cheaper for the consumer) because even before this clause came in, the actual purchase behaviour was tilted towards the low-cc variants.

[Mi10]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

@kiku007, you have summed it up brilliantly. The majority (on tbhp and otherwise) drool over performance variants of cars (Palio 1.6, City Vtec, Fiesta 1.6 etc), but when it comes to their purchase, it is the safe option of Palio 1.2, NHC-iDsi, Fiesta 1.4/TDCi etc. No wonder manufacturers don't see any incentive in offering choice and stick to the bread-and-butter 1.2 variants.

But I don't really think the 1.2l excise clause makes any difference (other than making cars cheaper for the consumer) because even before this clause came in, the actual purchase behaviour was tilted towards the low-cc variants.

Ya very true, ultimatley its business. Matching Supply and Demand is what any logical manufacurer will do.

Hardly 2 out of 10 but a 1.6 hatch, whats the use in pumping in investments for that (leave alone Government subsidy for 1.2)

[prince_pervez]

I feel a 1.2 is enough for a sedate driver in the city and a sedate driver on the highway who wants to maintain 80 - 90 and short bursts of 100-110 whenever infrasturcture and villagers permit. Coming back to 1.2 madness, lets put it this way. A non-enthusiast will go for a 1.2 or a sub 1.2 litre engine if he wants to and if his budget permits. An enthusiast does have other options to look at.

[yzfrj]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Next time do that on your Vtec and let me know how much time you saved on the whole journey as compared to the Zen. I can bet that it won't be much

Who said anything about saving time ?
Its a much safer tool on the Highway. Period.

Same pattern another time when I am on my CD-100 and a lady in her MB-SUV. This time, I could not help smiling as she would blaze off at each signal from Thoraipakkam to Kotturpuram, while at the next signal I would be alongside her.

Hope she did't get out and whack you

Inside city its a different game. Anyway you sound like that all chaps who buys "large" engines/cars are nuts ? Personal choice and there are lot of other reasons. All the folks out there are not hell bent on Km/Ltr. Agreed most are.

Personally I think this capacity based tax cap is BS. It should be more like US/UK based on CO2 emissions. Corrupt idiots here have no clue.
Less pollution is the final goal right ? or is it something else ?

Remember Reva ?
Its selling in good volumes in UK.

[kiku007]

@ SupremeBaleno - I have a personal grudge against the Indian Govt's Small car norm --> The 1.2L Figo has a low BHP/Ton figure and it's painfully slow coz of that. A 1.4L petrol would have been nice. The Govt norms has wiped out the >1.2L<1.5L petrols in hatches.

[@ri]

Originally Posted by kiku007

The 1.2L Figo has a low BHP/Ton figure and it's painfully slow coz of that. A 1.4L petrol would have been nice. The Govt norms has wiped out the >1.2L<1.5L petrols in hatches.

I wish i20 had a MT with the 1.4 engine as well.... I would have picked it up for sure! And I am sure, many more would have done the same!

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by yzfrj

you sound like that all chaps who buys "large" engines/cars are nuts ?

How could I sound like that ? Because that would be like calling myself a nut because I happen to own a large-engine (OK, large in the context we are talking here) car myself.

Originally Posted by yzfrj

All the folks out there are not hell bent on Km/Ltr. Agreed most are.

I am part of this km/ltr crowd too.

In a nutshell, the reason this madness does not end is because there aren't enough Riju's out there who have their wallets drawn to not only shell out bucks for a performance car, but also to pay for the extra fuel it would supposedly guzzle.

[Ricky_63]

Originally Posted by Gilead

Rahulkool, your prayers will soon be answered by the new Ford Fiesta hatch. 1.6L Duratec. Variable valve timing. 120 BHP. I hope Fiat plonks in the T-Jet into the Punto as well. You cannot expect anyone other than Ford and Fiat to take care of the needs of an enthusiast at an affordable price (read <10 lacs).

Originally Posted by mpksuhas

There is news of VW Polo with 1.6L diesel engine coming to market by Sept.

Slurp & another slurp for the above 2 options, provided they happen & happen soon.

Those should be real "performance oriented" machines

Would look forward to these & any other like these.



Cheers