[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by airbender

Except for Santro, nothing else you mentioned sells in big numbers. Older indicas are phased out from 13 big cities.

Hahaha what a joke!

So Maruti can't produce old models which are selling well, but others can produce them because they are not selling?


And do you think Tata stopped selling old Indica in those 13 cities because of Vista? They were forced to do so because of the BS-IV rules.

[Daewood]

Originally Posted by vigneshA

Beats me why the first one is false, if the second one is true.

i guess it means Suzuki sold more cars in India,
than Suzuki sold in all other markets put together(excluding japan)

[fiat_tarun]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

Hahaha what a joke!

So Maruti can't produce old models which are selling well, but others can produce them because they are not selling?


And do you think Tata stopped selling old Indica in those 13 cities because of Vista? They were forced to do so because of the BS-IV rules.

If they really wanted to sell old Indica's they would have put the CR4 engine in the Indica as well like they've done with the Indigo-cs. Eventually i think the old Indica will be phased out and only the indicab versions might be retained for the taxi market.

[bkbkr1212]

Originally Posted by bblost

I own a Maruti Wagon R.
I love my car.
Its about 6 years old with a little more than 50k kms.
No expenses beyond the scheduled services.
100% reliability.
0 rattles.
Service that makes me feel very special.

Maybe Maruti owners like me want a car to complement our lives. Not spend out time waiting in service centers dealing with an indifferent staff waiting for parts.

Infact just today when I saw a thread saying Jimny is getting launched. I broke out in a big smile.

Hi bblost,
I didn't want to rub anyone the wrong way.
I am very happy too with my SX4.


And the best part is when you enter a Maruti dealer's showroom. They treat their customers with utmost care and respect knowing very well that they are there to buy "cheapest" cars possible.

Have been to Tata service centre. The experience was worse than a govt office.
And our big 'H' (not 'H') showroom offered us to TD a car which was there for service. They didn't have test cars (or maybe they didn't want to give us)

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun

If they really wanted to sell old Indica's they would have put the CR4 engine in the Indica as well like they've done with the Indigo-cs. Eventually i think the old Indica will be phased out and only the indicab versions might be retained for the taxi market.

Well said. I can't think of any Tata car which has had as much success as a Maruti or Hynudai. Please don't count Indica, they run as taxis in most Indian cities.

As far as R&D goes, the other Indian co Mahindra is tied up with Bosch for R&D.
It's anybody's guess who'll be doing the R&D and who will be implementing it.

[longhorn]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

But havn't they upgraded their product including engine in Safari.

Yes they have upgraded, not replaced the Safari. The 1998 Safari and the 2010 Safari share the same chassis, but there is no complaint of an outdated product here. Similarly Maruti has also kept upgrading the Alto and not replaced it, but they have provided options like AStar for those who want a replacement. Yet we keep blaming Maruti for selling outdated products while no other manufacturer who is equally guilty of doing the very same thing is getting flamed here. If Hyundai can sell a 12 year old Santro/Accent, Tata an equally old Indica/Safari why blame Maruti alone.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by airbender

Suzuki is the only company which continues to ship out decades old models without updating them.

Well, add Hyundai (Santro, Accent, Getz), GM (Spark), Skoda (Octavia), Tata (Indica, Indigo, Safari) etc to the list.

Originally Posted by airbender

here in usa if I were to choose between honda and suzuki, I will go for honda even if suzuki is cheaper by 20%. It's not just me but the whole world expect india is doing that. All this to say honda's come with something more than just a badge.

India/Indians have to necessarily do what the world does ? Just as Americans buy Honda/Toyota because they see value in it, Indians buy Suzuki for the value and reliability offered by it. As simple as that.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun

If they really wanted to sell old Indica's they would have put the CR4 engine in the Indica as well like they've done with the Indigo-cs.

My question is clear: would they have stopped selling old Indicas in those 13 cities if the BS-IV norms were not implemented there?

If Tata don't want to sell old Indicas, why they are selling them in cities other than those 13?

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun

Eventually i think the old Indica will be phased out and only the indicab versions might be retained for the taxi market.

It's your thinking and wish, not of Tata's.

BTW, I'm happy to see some supporters for Tata from the Fiat stable, just because Tata and Fiat has a 50-50 partnership in India!

[fiat_tarun]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

My question is clear: would they have stopped selling old Indicas in those 13 cities if the BS-IV norms were not implemented there?

If Tata don't want to sell old Indicas, why they are selling them in cities other than those 13?

Tata would have definitely continued selling the Indica in the metros if not for the emission norms! When a car is selling well why will a manufacturer withdraw it from the market? Case in point being Maruti & Hyundai who refuse to flog a model when a global replacement is launched. The only two manufacturers who replace a model completely are Honda & Toyota, other than the luxury players obviously.

Since Tata has not upgraded the old Indica engines obviously mean they don't want to sell it in the 13 cities where EIV have been introduced. They are anyway making the CR4 Indigo CS's, so plonking the same engine in the Indica is not a big problem.

It's your thinking and wish, not of Tata's.

BTW, I'm happy to see some supporters for Tata from the Fiat stable, just because Tata and Fiat has a 50-50 partnership in India!

Wow, Thats some judgment you have there my friend. If a point is made in favour of a company i become a supporter, and as per the same logic, if i say something against a company i become a basher.

I think the Fiat name always invites interesting discussions on this forum

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by bkbkr1212

As far as R&D goes, the other Indian co Mahindra is tied up with Bosch for R&D.
It's anybody's guess who'll be doing the R&D and who will be implementing it.

Please do not make such meaningless comments if you do not know what Automobile R&D means.

[airbender]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

BTW, I'm happy to see some supporters for Tata from the Fiat stable, just because Tata and Fiat has a 50-50 partnership in India!

Nice judgement. Coming from a person with a stable head. Professional and fair.

Well what can I say? If I say anything I will be branded as questioning your patriotism.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Well, add Hyundai (Santro, Accent, Getz), GM (Spark), Skoda (Octavia), Tata (Indica, Indigo, Safari) etc to the list.

I have said maruti continues to sell decades old model in india while replacing them in other markets. They sell the new model under a different name in india. As far as I know Tata and GM did not do that. Skoda I don't know. If not for Nano they would still be selling M800 in 13 big cities.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

India/Indians have to necessarily do what the world does ? Just as Americans buy Honda/Toyota because they see value in it, Indians buy Suzuki for the value and reliability offered by it. As simple as that.

I never said that. In my opinion some members go overboard in their criticism of honda's. Bash them for not pricing their products rightly which I agree. But honda's are a class apart form the rest when it comes to reliability. That's what people all over the world pay the premium for honda's. Indian conditions are different from USa/Europe. Driving speeds are low and manpower is cheap. What I am only trying to convey is give credit where it is due.

Originally Posted by Daewood

Technically Maruti Suzuki may be a sperate entity paying royalty to Suzuki japan. But they are one and the same. In spirit Maruti is a subsidiary of Suzuki.
In such a scenario does it really matter where they do their R&D?
Isn't skoda using the technology developed by VW.

It's like expecting Nokia to do all their R&D in India because they have a factory here and 6 out of every 10 phones sold in India is a Nokia.

Yes, if they were fully owned subsidary of suzuki. But they are not. Nokia's india division is their fully owned by them. So your comparision is apples to oranges.

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by airbender

I have said maruti continues to sell decades old model in india while replacing them in other markets. They sell the new model under a different name in india. As far as I know Tata and GM did not do that. Skoda I don't know. If not for Nano they would still be selling M800 in 13 big cities.

How about Spark/Beat?. Only difference is older model is comparatively better than some of the competitors and not decade old.

[airbender]

Originally Posted by longhorn

So what if they don't sell in big numbers. They are still a decade old. How come no one complains when you pay in excess of 10 lakh for a Safari which is more than a decade old, but you want cars costing 1/3rd of that to be phased out. That's what I call double standards.



Trust me, they are on the job. Like I mentioned, it cannot be done overnight. They are doing it from scratch. The product is already under development and should be launched in 2012.

Please read this link:
Rediff On The Net Business News: Bhaskarudu: The man Suzuki loves to hate
From the above link:
"If the gear box is indigenised, Maruti could start producing all its cars without any technical assistance from the Japanese company," an MUL employee told Rediff On The NeT.

This is a company which went to the extent of getting the MD sacked for trying to indiginize. If you read through the article, what they did was against the interests of the country. If they would have supported bhaskarudu at that time maruti udyog would not be maruti suzuki today. Instead of assemblers they would be automakers.

I know there are some people on the forum with atitude like "I don't care if the whole world bleeds I will be happy as long as I get my meal". I can't help those atitudes.

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by vigneshA

Beats me why the first one is false, if the second one is true.

I assume the poster meant by saying "Suzuki Worldwide", is "Parts of the world excluding Japan, and India".

[HammerHead]

Originally Posted by airbender
Suzuki is the only company which continues to ship out decades old models without updating them.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Well, add Hyundai (Santro, Accent, Getz), GM (Spark), Skoda (Octavia), Tata (Indica, Indigo, Safari) etc to the list.

Some of the old stuff still being sold with face lifts, re-touched engines and what not.

Tata Indica = 1998 (Running for last 12 years)

Accent/Accent (LC) = 2000 (Running for last 10 years)
Hyundai Santro/Atos = 1997 (Running for last 13 years)

M800/2nd Gen. Alto = 1984 (Running for last 26 years)
Maruti Omni/Suzuki Super Carry = 1984 (Running for last 26 years. Not sure when it was launched in other countries as Super carry)
Suzuki Wagon R = 1993 (Running for last 17 years)
Alto/5th Gen. Alto = 1998 (Running for last 12 years)
Zen Estilo/MR Wagon 1st Gen.= 2001 (Running for last 9 years)
^^ The best way to know what will be next from Maruti is to simple check what's been just discontinued in Japan.

Fiat Palio/Mark I = 1996 (Running for last 14 years)

Skoda Octavia/ Mk1 = 1996 (Running for last 14 years)

And the latest entrant Ford Figo/ Fiesta Mark V is already 8 years old!!


Now lets discuss June 2010 sales figures

[bkbkr1212]

Originally Posted by Latheesh

Please do not make such meaningless comments if you do not know what Automobile R&D means.

Oops, did my post warrant such a strong reaction, that too from a Senior-BHPian.?
Sorry for the "stupid" post.

Now that you have decided that i know nothing about Automobile R&D means, could you please enlighten me on the same?

BTW, got this information from a colleagues' friend who works in the R&D dept in the same co.
But I would like to hear from you since you seem to have got very offended.Please make sure that you are not writing something concrete, not hearsay.
Best regards,