[figo_mba]

Originally Posted by julupani

I dont think anybody would want to buy powerful versions of Manza. That is not the idea behind a Tata, which is why the 90hp Vista has fallen completely flat and is doing much worse than the Linea Tjets or Punto 90hpMJDs.
.

Indica safire 90hp is a petrol. I am still wondering why tata launched that. no possibility of selling that. They should have put the 90bhp 1.3 MJD in it.

And when it comes to suspensions the Tatas are pretty softy softy type.. meaning more importance to soft rides and not for high speed cornering ability etc. Still no comparison with fiat though

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by Slick

First TATA showrooms ignore perspective FIAT customers (And this I have experienced first hand) and then to top it up FIAT is sharing everything with TATA?
I have been ignored by the sales staff when looking at the Punto but I just went near the vista and people rushed to explain how good the vista is. This happened in Mumbai.

+100 again!
I am not aware if Fiat have their own SAs or these are shared resources with Tata. If this is the case, they need to ensure they have their own SAa and that they are held accountable for sales
I have had a similar experience, where the Fiat area was rarely attended by anyone. Even the guy who finally turned up managed to convince me into not buying a Punto. Not by saying anything specific, but just by doing exactly the things he should not have.

IMHO, if Fiat needs to do something they need to learn how to package a car with decent quality of interiors and how to sell a car. I agree this JV is seeming to be more beneficial to Tata than to Fiat.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by download2live

I beg to disagree. The MJD engine has brought much repute to FIAT in India.
Not that I am discounting the build, looks and handling.

Agreed, FIAT's 1.3MJD is one heck of an engine, and definitely deserves a spot among the engines most important to India. Probably one of the hallowed engines for India with the Tata 697/497, Suzuki 800cc, Leyland Hino series etc.

But here we are talking about USP's. The fact that the MJD is so successful makes it a not USP as everybody else is also using it. If you want to buy a car just for the 1.3MJD might as well buy a Swift.

Also even if the 1.3MJD is a such a successful engine, do you think the common car owner knows that one of the major reasons why the Swift/Swift Dzire combo sells more than 20000 every month is a FIAT engine. So in the real world not much of that credit has gone to FIAT.

So again I say, engine's are not FIAT's USP.

[theMAG]

Its high time Fiat goes solo while not recreating its past mistakes.

[aqualeo2040]

Why do we want Fiat to go solo?

If Taj Hotel, A Tata Group Venture, can be run so professionally, why cant the Tata Motors!

Fiat is anyways not very famous worldwide about their service.
If Tata improves the service quality, we dont have to bother. e.g. I get excellent service from Prerana Motors on Hosur Road, but they are still Tata Serv Center.

The more important aspect which needs to change is the attitude of people. Today's automobiles are each a engineering marvel and we need a engineer and not a mechanic to look into the issues/niggles.
However, a mechanic is considered to be a person from lower strata of the society and in turn is a low paying job. If that same role is given importance, we can have a engineer look into the issues, I dont think our issues will remain hanging in the air for that long.
But if my engineer friend comes to me today and says that he wants to run a garage, I will immediately snicker.WHY? if the engineers are paid well enough, why cant we have them in our garages. We pay a high amount to the specialist surgeons, then we can pay a decent amount to these engineers as well. I guess its just a vicious circle and we all are involved in this mess.

Originally Posted by selfdrive

I am not aware if Fiat have their own SAs or these are shared resources with Tata.

Concorde Motors, Dairy Circle/Mysore Road, Bangalore, have exclusive dedicated team for FIAT cars only. They attend to FIAT cars only in service bays exclusively earmarked for FIAT cars. Even the accessories guys are exclusive for FIAT cars. Recently when my Linea had reverse parking sensors fitted at Concorde Motors, Dairy Circle, one Rafeeq, who did the job, explained to me about his undergoing training at FIAT plant at Ranjangaon.

[teamveevee]

Originally Posted by pawan_pullarwar

So Fiat does not know what customer needs. ....Nothing has been said on servicing the car. very sad indeed.

Not true, He did mention "we have a 168-strong dealer network across India...the fact that we were ranked 2nd by JD Power for quality of service behind Maruti says a lot..."... According to JD power, Fiat Quality of service is better than Toyota and Hyndai?. Unlike what the TBHPians think, Looks like there are many satisfied Fiat customers.
I see the main problem with Fiat, is lack of products, once they have more products, they will get independant dealerships. They need a small car to compete with Maruti Alto, an SUV to compete with Fortuner and a CrossOver to complete with Innova. Since all these are available for Fiat in International markets and similar platforms availabel with Tata, it should not be hard for Fiat to come up with these products. Why are they taking time? Fiat need to share platforms with Tata, but need to differentiate each product from the ones from Tata in terms of packaging, tuning and quality and take care of sales and service by themselves (Manufacturing shared).

[kaks15]

Originally Posted by teamveevee

Not true, He did mention
I see the main problem with Fiat, is lack of products, once they have more products, they will get independant dealerships. They need a small car to compete with Maruti Alto, an SUV to compete with Fortuner and a CrossOver to complete with Innova. Since all these are available for Fiat in International markets and similar platforms availabel with Tata, it should not be hard for Fiat to come up with these products. Why are they taking time? Fiat need to share platforms with Tata, but need to differentiate each product from the ones from Tata in terms of packaging, tuning and quality and take care of sales and service by themselves (Manufacturing shared).

They surely can not do it in the JV. I was told there is a non compete agreement in the JV for the products, dont know the exact nature of it though. Moreover i dont think Tata motors would allow them to all together go separate in terms of sales and service under their roof!
While I agree with your suggestions i think they would need to go solo to do all this.

[julupani]

@teamveevee

The JD Power survey shows that most likely what I said previously is true. FIAT service being bad is actually more of a perception issue rather than an actual one. Because with every other car manufacturer, if there is some problem with the service, the blame most of the time stops at the dealer, or some minor issue. But if there is a small problem with FIAT service, the whole system is bad and FIAT service automatically becomes completely and utterly incompetent. There are many satisfied customers of FIAT service, me included, but every problem gets blown out of proportion because of the perception.

Also, a few questions, which FIAT products internationally can compete with the Innova and the Fortuner?? The only other products they can introduce in the market is probably the Bravo, as they are already implementing a Palio replacement.

According to me their future lineup should be like this: New Palio, Panda, Punto Evo, Linea Evo. The FIAT 500 and Bravo can probably be brought in as CKDs instead of CBUs, and they will sort of serve as image building cars for the Brand.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by teamveevee

According to JD power, Fiat Quality of service is better than Toyota and Hyundai?. Unlike what the TBHPians think, Looks like there are many satisfied Fiat customers.

I agree with the findings of the survey. In fact I think *** has improved at both Tata (own experience) and most notably Fiat (friends' experiences).
One of friends owns a Hyundai i20 and his inlaws own a Punto. His honest assessment was that Fiat could do with learning how to be customer friendly, but their SAs are better than those at Hyundai when it comes to either resolving an issue and explaining it to the owner. After all isnt that what we should expect from the ***. With his i20, among other niggles his steering rattle (admittedly not a major issue for him till date) has not been resolved or explained to him
If I want coffee or an AC, I can sit at home or at work. Why expect that from the *** as long as they can resolve my issues and understand what they are doing on my car

[ACM]

There are a few Fiat owners in the company where I work who are my close friends. I had shortilisted the Linea for them and they went for it.

They are actually quite happy with the treatment that they get for their cars from the TATA + Fiat Service location that they go to. (Wasan in Bombay (chembur)). The same Service Centre also caters to Ford and Toyota in seperate buildings in the same complex under the same Service brand.

Yes there were a few issues with the earlier lineas like (the rubber pads on top of the Shock Absorber Struts), AC, etc. and in time all these have been replaced by the Service centre Free of Cost to their satifaction. The only thing that they dislike about the service has been the time taken (cars end up being kept for 2-3 days) but then if one is going to replace parts of the AC, Struts etc it would take time.

Also if one looks at the last couple of months sale, then Fiat has managed to retain its numbers while others like Honda have gone down. (I do disagree that the drop in Honda sales have much to do with the events in Japan. Feel it just reflect the market sitution in India.) Also while the Vista numbers itself have gone down (Manza continues to do very well), the numbes for Punto and Linea were steady in a declining market for those months.

Fiat I believe is better off with TATA, and going solo is something that is just not going to happen. Fiat needs to continue in a steady manner and add a wider range of smaller cars along side the Punto.

[sharma_sanjeevi]

IMO, the JV is being more beneficial for TATA instead of FIAT. Agreed, FIAT dosent have the monetary liberties to invest in building their own Showrooms & A.S.C.

Also, there is a complete lack of the Marketing efforts for the FIAT Products, they are having world class products on their hands, but they are let down by the non-existant marketing. The FIAT India Management needs to pull up their socks and should compell the TATA guys to market their cars in a Big Way. As the marketing for FIAT Cars is in TATA's kitty.

Above all, if they can hire a Dynamic Management Guys for e.g. Mr. Jagdish Khattar, who steered a phenomenal growth for Maruti Suzuki. I somehow feel that the current management of FIAT India is also at fault.

And need of the hour is to expand their portfolio with a Small Car ASAP.

[justwheels]

Originally Posted by ACM

Fiat I believe is better off with TATA, and going solo is something that is just not going to happen. Fiat needs to continue in a steady manner and add a wider range of smaller cars along side the Punto.

I agree to this point. In the current situation, Fiat doesn't have the bouquet of offerrings that can ring bells in the ears of the consumers. Also, wth substantial earnings from MJD engines, the bottomline is quite strong. For the image, its the same case as the Tata's who inspite of a product like Aria haven't been able to shed off the taxi image from their brands completely. But its just a blown away perception.
Also, its bound to happen that Tata SA's are more inclined towards selling their own brands. Surely Fiat can look into it by way of proper marketting and planning. If you have a product that looks and feels much better than the other, you can surely win customers. Also the vast network of Tata dealership strengthens the bottom line of servicability of fiat cars. Starting anew means they will end up in Nissan category and I don't think they would like that.\
Even worldwide, Fiat hasn't got some great products, Panda is old and Bravo would be a luxury hatch that we Indians won't buy. The panel Vans like Doblo and Foirino aren't to our taste. So, as they say, "Keep it simple Silly"

[ACM]

Originally Posted by justwheels

Also, its bound to happen that Tata SA's are more inclined towards selling their own brands. Surely Fiat can look into it by way of proper marketting and planning. If you have a product that looks and feels much better than the other, you can surely win customers.

This also reminds me that they do have a seperate executive for Fiat sales in the Wasan Showroom as well as actually a seperate Cabin for Fiat customers in the Service centre. There a 2-3 desks for TATA customers in the open area and a seperate exclusive cabin for Fiat customers in the service centre (though just 1 but it does match up to the sales numbers comparatively).

Actually we all analyse Fiat and its relatively poor sales a lot, but fiat customers seems to be happy overall except for the fact that they would feel more reasured if the numbers were higher for Fiat indicating a more continued involvement and support in India.

[download2live]

Going solo will be like putting all the eggs in one basket. And will involve huge investments. I feel that FIAT never thought of matching Maruti or Hyundai in terms of sale. They are happy minting money out of MJD engines they sell. And along side providing cars to enthusiasts. I agree that MJD powered Punto and Linea are not scorchers by any standards but then we were also very quick bad mouth Palio S10 for its FE. What they could put for people who loved driving without incurring their wrath was ride quality and handling. And they did so. And also the target market for FIAT is not whole of India. Its mostly Metros. As long as they are strong in Metros they would be happy.

They might open a super specialist single service station in each metro where the cars with difficult to diagnose problems are can be sent by FIAT guys working in TATA A.S.S.