[anmol2k4]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Disclaimer I am not trained business analyst so my views can be infentile.

IF Fiat is also doing it then they must be making a lot of moolah but very less visibility like Samsung or Fujutsu of Japan.

Sirji, you are being very modest calling yourself "infantile". Your post is very informative and enlightening.

Regarding Fiat, though they don't have as many products and services as Samsung but they are certainly doing that with JTD engine and that have certainly made them lots of money. read: buyout of one of the "Big 3":Chrysler.

You may find this article interesting: JTD engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by anmol2k4

Regarding Fiat, though they don't have as many products and services as Samsung but they are certainly doing that with JTD engine and that have certainly made them lots of money.

Not only the MJD, AFAIK FIAT is also supplying the gearbox (Eurotech) for Vista Drivetech4. Not sure this info is correct though..

[anmol2k4]

Originally Posted by sandeepmdas

Not only the MJD, AFAIK FIAT is also supplying the gearbox (Eurotech) for Vista Drivetech4. Not sure this info is correct though..

You are 100% correct, I forgot about the gearbox.

[aaggoswami]

Read this on net. I am sure that Fiat is not happy.

1) Selling Fiat cars through Tata dealerships. This is the biggest blunder by Fiat. I agree that they were in need of a partner, but tie up with Tata ? Tata Vista is available for any customer to look into alongside GP. In that small car segment Value + practicality wins the battle. The high sales of tall boys are proof enough even before GP stepped on Indian soil.
Vista obviously is more spacious, with more than one diesel engine option, the Indica tag has earned a place in Indian market. The negative image of Fiat due to PAL tieup is also against Fiat. Who will win ? Vista.

Similar story can be typed in for Manza and Linea. Manza offers one of the most spacious rear seats below Rs. 8-9 lakh sedans. Linea is not so strong in space as compared to Manza. Once a customers sits in the rear seats of both cars, the choice of general car buying public would be Manza for sure. Again Indigo has earned a reputation in Indian market. Who wins ? Manza.

Does it mean Linea and GP are not so good ? NO. Only thing is that they are sold through a medium that is already congested. A separate sales network would help a lot as the prospective customer will have an opportunity to look into the positives of Fiat products.

2) Quality. Overall, the quality is not upto the mark in Fiat. My relatives in A'bad had S10 Yellow Palio 1.6. Compare it with present fit and finish levels of GP and instantly the dip in quality is visible.

There is also one thread about AC issue with Linea in Technical section. Another thread where a brand new Linea was stuck on road due to clutch slave cyliner ( ? ) or similar issue. There was a recall on that too. For such low numbers, quality checks and consistency is expected.

The general image market gets is that Fiat is not sincere enough. The main task for Fiat is to build trust in Indian car buying public.

3) Service. Already well discussed, no point in wasting server space.

4)

Fiat, meanwhile, is making efforts to improve the experience at dealerships to ensure its cars get proper attention. "Fiat has separate areas for sales and service, and we even have dedicated staff for our brands. Now we are in the process of increasing manpower at these dealerships and are focusing a lot on training them to convert inquiries into sales. We are giving it a firm push."

I hope the above quote is actually delivered to end user.

Even today IMO the only car that can hit G3HC ( ANHC ) is Linea. SX4 had limited success in this, but if Fiat worked out better like more than one diesel engine and sensible price, G3HC would be hit. A healthy separate sales and service network for Fiat will give rise to a healthy competition, good for customers.

[aditya116]

@prateek-Now this is an interesting point. Unless FIAT is paying lesser commission to dealer, or there are unofficial guidelines from Tatas to refrain from promoting FIAT, why would a dealer not promote FIAT vehicles?

In all probability, considering premium pricing of FIAT over Tata, a dealer earns more from selling FIAT.

From what i heard from my dealer FIAT gives very slim Margins compared to TATA.
I often think whether a tie up with maruti would have been a better bet as they had an agreement over manufacturing MJDs.
Sometimes i also wonder what would have happened if maruti were never given the license to manufacture diesels and TATA-FIAT JV had it all to themselves?

[Viper21]

My experience in Concorde motors Bangalore was good as well. The sales person (i believe from TATA) went to the extent of telling "the Palio has a great build and good space as well.He was all praises about the Punto as well. He let me check out all the vehicles in the showroom (Palio, Linea, Punto, Manza and Vista). He was not sounding negative or it never looked like he wanted to sell me a TATA Car. Although i ended up buying the Manza because it fit the bill, i did not think he was trying to promote TATA at the cost of FIAT. So i think that only in some showrooms they promote only TATA and FIAT does not get equal space. Atleast my experience with concorde motors was fine.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

1) Selling Fiat cars through Tata dealerships. This is the biggest blunder by Fiat. I agree that they were in need of a partner, but tie up with Tata ? Tata Vista is available for any customer to look into alongside GP. In that small car segment Value + practicality wins the battle. The high sales of tall boys are proof enough even before GP stepped on Indian soil.
Vista obviously is more spacious, with more than one diesel engine option, the Indica tag has earned a place in Indian market. The negative image of Fiat due to PAL tieup is also against Fiat. Who will win ? Vista.

Alternative thought if it was not Tata Showroom person might not have taken trouble to go to a dedicated FIAT Showroom at all , as it was happening before the tie-up surely 248% jump in sales tell something.

If FIAT can not give VFM or got a bad reputation due to non-availibility of parts blame lies with them. This bad reputaion of non-availability of parts had dented the image and also affacts the resale value, So the customer who wants to pay premium but recover later in resale moves away from them.
Even after tie-up FIAT is simply not bothered about parts supply for older cars like FIAT Adventure.

[mxx]

Instead of blaming tata, fiat should try to listen to customers. Let us forget the a.s.s for now, which comes after the customer buys the product. Talking about sales, the biggest let down for fiat linea and GP is the quality, fit and finish of the its interiors. I dont know about plastics. How do they expect the customers to buy a product with lousy plastics and huge gaps in them? Majority of the customers dont know or care about how great fiat's chassis is(something the fiat fans always refer to) and the great engines and technology they are known for abroad. When they sit in your car they need something on par with the rest of the segment. If I am not mistaken, even the Manza with is priced below the linea has better interior compared to linea. Neither does fiat have things that the normal customers look for , nor do they have better engines which the enthusiasts look for. What is Fiat's USP except the design?

[neoonwheels]

Guys,

For God's sake how many times we are going to talk about plastics? If plastic is the only thing Maruti would have never sold thousands of Altos, WagonR, Zen etc.

Main reason as somebody has pointed out is the problem of sharing the same showroom with a low cost same segment vehicle. Punto is sandwiched between Vista and Manza. We Indians always look for sedan if it is available at the hatchback price no matter how comfortable and convenient the hatchback is. So most of the customers are either end up buying low cost Vista or almost same cost Manza instead of Punto. Linea is still better placed because of its priced higher than Manza and there is nothing from TATA above Linea in sedan market.

Its been almost 3-4 years now that FIAT is sharing sales with TATA. I guess now its time for FIAT to come up with independent showrooms but still run by same TATA dealers. Service still can be shared as there is a huge investment behind starting up an independent service center. At least the customer facing end can be isolated. Keep couple of cars in TATA showroom but point customers to FIAT exclusive showroom. At lease dealers can manage with independent showrooms as of now. Its very much natural that a customer may look at Vista and Manza as an alternative to Punto in the same showroom. And if the margins are thin, dealers would be happy selling TATA cars than FIAT.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by neoonwheels

Its been almost 3-4 years now that FIAT is sharing sales with TATA. I guess now its time for FIAT to come up with independent showrooms but still run by same TATA dealers.

Are you sure dealer can even recover real estate cost for dedicated FIAT showroom ? With the kind of sales they have now or they ever had in last decade or so at least not in Bangalore. .

Instead of Showrooms at dairy circle and lalbag you may be redirected to showrooms in Peenya and Neelamangla .

Secondly customer is not a fool he takes back to back test of 3-4 brands he has shortlisted and then select. If Punto looses to Vista and Manza in showroom it will continue to loose from a different showroom as well.

[neoonwheels]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Are you sure dealer can even recover real estate cost for dedicated FIAT showroom ? With the kind of sales they have now or they ever had in last decade or so at least not in Bangalore. .

Instead of Showrooms at dairy circle and lalbag you may be redirected to showrooms in Peenya and Neelamangla .

Secondly customer is not a fool he takes back to back test of 3-4 brands he has shortlisted and then select. If Punto looses to Vista and Manza in showroom it will continue to loose from a different showroom as well.

You have a valid point but unless they have their own sales channel, things are difficult for FIAT. May be FIAT can share some capital with the dealers for setup on contractual basis.

[suman]

Didn't FIAT have their own setup earlier & don't we all know what happened? We need to shake off the amnesia here

[neoonwheels]

Originally Posted by suman

Didn't FIAT have their own setup earlier & don't we all know what happened? We need to shake off the amnesia here

They are in a better state as of now than they were in 2005. We on TBhp had a thread with title "How far FIAT will take to shutdown". You can now guess the state of their independent operations by then. Currently there is a overlap in the portfolio which is dangerous to FIAT. Maruti can get away with such overlap because all products belong to them. In this case 2 different entities have same products sharing same showroom. Thats why I said, may be the existing dealers can setup independent showroom with the help of FIAT. Otherwise, if FIAT management does not voice their concern, TATA is happy milking FIAT with their technology and earn profits selling their own products with superior technology.

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by neoonwheels

They are in a better state as of now than they were in 2005.

Thats because of TATA. How many others would be willing to setup dealerships and service centres?

[suman]

Originally Posted by neoonwheels

They are in a better state as of now than they were in 2005.

Originally Posted by srishiva

Thats because of TATA. How many others would be willing to setup dealerships and service centres?

Bingo!!

Originally Posted by neoonwheels

Otherwise, if FIAT management does not voice their concern, TATA is happy milking FIAT with their technology and earn profits selling their own products with superior technology.

The point is, FIAT knew exactly what they were getting into when they signed the JV. The partnership has also helped boost their numbers. So what is stopping them from voicing their concerns (if any) to TATA & getting them addressed?

Its not that they are babes in the woods as far as India is concerned?