[Amartya]

Originally Posted by chevelle

So, its not like a bias against FIAT for not providing powerful engine, it goes for Hondas and Toyotas too. If and when they launch this T-Jet i am sure most of them will stop saying it is underpowered

As much as I'd like to believe what you said, it's not true. You don't have to read through a lot of threads to see how Fiat has been under the hammer. Hundred bucks says that plastic quality and interior fitments would be cited as reasons that the FIAT should fail. If that doesn't work, drag Tata (hence FIAT) A.S.S. into the mud-slinging fest. Just read this thread from start to finish, you'll see that there is less talk of the T-jet than of the Punto and Fiat A.S.S.

As a person who enjoys driving, I have slowly warmed to the Fiats. First drove the Uno, didn't like it (had my eyes on the Zen), then came the Project 178 cars (Siena, Palio), now the Punto and the Linea. Fiat made a hash of things over the years, they failed even with excellent products; but unlike Renault and Peugeot they didn't leave the country. Yes, they are here for business interests, but it might have been easier (but short sighted) for them to just leave the country and earn money from licensing deals with Suzuki.

I like it when they try, and try hard to make a comeback.

[echo77]

If and when they launch this T-Jet i am sure most of them will stop saying it is underpowered

They'll still say it is underpowered because its still the 1.4, whereas other markets have the 1.6 and 1.9 TJet

[sharma_sanjeevi]

Originally Posted by echo77

They'll still say it is underpowered because its still the 1.4, whereas other markets have the 1.6 and 1.9 TJet

+1, as i can see from the starting of this thread, only mud slinging is going on FIAT A.S.S, Punto & Fit & Finish Issues. I think this thread is going off topic, and we should discuss only the Linea T-Jet here.

Every FIAT related thread turns into mud slinging only stop this, and lets have a constructive / informative discussion guys.

[CPH]

Originally Posted by echo77

They'll still say it is underpowered because its still the 1.4, whereas other markets have the 1.6 and 1.9 TJet

No European market has got a petrol engine bigger than 1.4 in any Fiat anymore.

The 1.6, the 1.9 and the 2.0 are all Diesel engines.

[echo77]

^^
IIRC, the 1.9 used in Brazil is a petrol.

Also thought I saw a youtube advert for 1.6 TJet, but I may have mistaken the 16v for 1.6.

[vvmanoj]

Whats more important for Fiat is to understand and listen to existing customers. As long as Fiat is with Tata, Fiat owners will always be second class citizens at dealerships.

When Tata-FIAT is unable to support its existing users why would one invest in a new model whose spares would be even harder to procure. When I talk about spares I do not mean air filters and such... I am talking about parts you may need 4-5 years down the line which frankly speaking are a nightmare to procure for Fiat cars.

Cheers,
Manoj

[chevelle]

Originally Posted by Amartya

As much as I'd like to believe what you said, it's not true. You don't have to read through a lot of threads to see how Fiat has been under the hammer. Hundred bucks says that plastic quality and interior fitments would be cited as reasons that the FIAT should fail. If that doesn't work, drag Tata (hence FIAT) A.S.S. into the mud-slinging fest. Just read this thread from start to finish, you'll see that there is less talk of the T-jet than of the Punto and Fiat A.S.S.

As a person who enjoys driving, I have slowly warmed to the Fiats. First drove the Uno, didn't like it (had my eyes on the Zen), then came the Project 178 cars (Siena, Palio), now the Punto and the Linea. Fiat made a hash of things over the years, they failed even with excellent products; but unlike Renault and Peugeot they didn't leave the country. Yes, they are here for business interests, but it might have been easier (but short sighted) for them to just leave the country and earn money from licensing deals with Suzuki.

I like it when they try, and try hard to make a comeback.

I was just talking w.r.t the engines. yes, interior, fit and finish are some issues which everybody loves pointing out in a fiat car, but till now, the 1.4 petrol being underpowered was also mentioned. Hell, when we tested it we felt it was underpowered. So, that's why i was hopeful that it no longer will be mentioned in same breath as interiors and fit and finish and a.s.s.

Just think of it, just as we blame Honda for being overpriced, less features for its price, a wee bit wanting in ride and handling department, similarly we blame Fiat for poor quality interiors, fit and finish and a.s.s. After all we are looking for perfect sedan/hatch that has best of both worlds which we haven't yet got still.

Originally Posted by echo77

They'll still say it is underpowered because its still the 1.4, whereas other markets have the 1.6 and 1.9 TJet

All i have read about is 1.6 and 1.9 MultiJet which are diesel. I didn't knew there is a 1.6 T-Jet too. Could you give some reference links?

On Fiat's Brazil site, it says 1.9 MJD and 1.9 petrol. No where it says its a 1.9 T-Jet

[echo77]

I just checked. There is no 1.6 petrol - I mistook the 16v for 1.6

Also, the 1.9 is not a TJet. It is Flex (ethanol/petrol)

I retract the 1.6 and TJet from my statement, so it now becomes:

They'll still say it is underpowered because its still a 1.4, whereas Brazil has a 1.9

[CPH]

Originally Posted by echo77

^^
IIRC, the 1.9 used in Brazil is a petrol.

Also thought I saw a Youtube advert for 1.6 TJet, but I may have mistaken the 16v for 1.6.

In Brazil they have got the 1747cc lump, which is in Europe currently in Alfas and Lancias. The revised 1747 might end up in -the Fiat Bravo.

Fiat never had a 1.9 petrol.

There was a T-Jet planned to be used in Fiats, but this was at the time before the divorce from GM.

The 1.9 8v M-Jet is now replaced by the 1.6 16v M-Jet and the 1.9 16v by the 2.0 16v.

There are some 1.6 turbos in Greece, but they are all converted to turbos.

However the Linea T-jet can be easily uprated to about 160 bhp with AIR and proper re-map, with a turbo upgrade, some sensor changes, AIR and re-map to about 180 to 190 bhp and with further modifications to anywhere between 200 and 250bhp without changing anything on the engine internals.

I have done a lot of work on the engine in many cars and can tell that it is a very good engine. It is just that the T-Jet is for my liking not quick enough, but than I am spoilt.

And if anyone else thinks it is not quick enough, there is always the possibility to give a tuner a visit.

[vikrantj]

Originally Posted by vvmanoj

Whats more important for Fiat is to understand and listen to existing customers. As long as Fiat is with Tata, Fiat owners will always be second class citizens at dealerships.

When Tata-FIAT is unable to support its existing users why would one invest in a new model whose spares would be even harder to procure. When I talk about spares I do not mean air filters and such... I am talking about parts you may need 4-5 years down the line which frankly speaking are a nightmare to procure for Fiat cars.

Cheers,
Manoj

Are you a existing FIAT or Tata car owner ? Since I am not too sure where you have this info from. I do not think we have even one instance where a FIAT part is not available and secondly FIAT owners being treated unfairly at TASS is pure myth.

[thalavoy]

Originally Posted by vikrantj

Are you a existing FIAT or Tata car owner ? Since I am not too sure where you have this info from. I do not think we have even one instance where a FIAT part is not available and secondly FIAT owners being treated unfairly at TASS is pure myth.

I second that. All my dealings with Prerana, no complaints at all and have not seen any differential treatment for Fiat owners.
Not sure about the parts/spares though. I mean, I had to wait for quite some time for a replacement for Adventure rear wiper. But, replacement for side rear view mirror was readily available.

[humans]

Originally Posted by vvmanoj

Whats more important for Fiat is to understand and listen to existing customers. As long as Fiat is with Tata, Fiat owners will always be second class citizens at dealerships.

When Tata-FIAT is unable to support its existing users why would one invest in a new model whose spares would be even harder to procure. When I talk about spares I do not mean air filters and such... I am talking about parts you may need 4-5 years down the line which frankly speaking are a nightmare to procure for Fiat cars.

Cheers,
Manoj

EDIT: Just saw you have GTX, so may be in this case the below comments doesn't apply to you as you may have genuinely faced issue, but still I will say please don't generalize the service as there may be some who haven't faced the problems you might have.

Not sure whether you yourself have experience this or heard stories from others, I can tell you my own personal experience. Once my Palio Stile (rarest model in Palio) rear axle bent when an roadside angle came below a tyre and it is obviously not a stored part but I got that in 3 days flat. And it's now close to three and half years and I have no complaints regarding my car parts from TATA / FIAT service network. And in this time period I had to change front bumper, OVRM and manifold too and I didn't face any issues. It would be really appreciated if team-bhp members post genuine experiences and not unverified stories heard from distant friends, relatives, colleagues.

[vvmanoj]

Originally Posted by vikrantj

Are you a existing FIAT or Tata car owner ? Since I am not too sure where you have this info from. I do not think we have even one instance where a FIAT part is not available and secondly FIAT owners being treated unfairly at TASS is pure myth.

I own a 2001 1.6GTX (one of the very first in Hyderabad). Do you own one of the newer cars? Then you might have been lucky on the spares front. On an average for any major part (again on personal experience) it takes not less than 3 weeks (on average) for parts to arrive. I know the pain and frustration when my car had to sit idle waiting for parts for almost 3 months (put together) this past year.

Tell me what kind of a story does that paint for my frineds/colleagues? Its these things that spread and give such a bad publicity for FIAT. How serious is FIAT about tackling these issues? Do I need to run behind company officials each time I need a spare part?!!

Originally Posted by humans

It would be really appreciated if team-bhp members post genuine experiences and not unverified stories heard from distant friends, relatives, colleagues.

First to clear things, all what I have said is from personal experience. Apart from some common fast moving parts, most parts takes ages to procure. Take for instance a simple AC switch, its now been more than 45 days and the part is still to be procured! I had to change a few uncommon parts ( like the radiator fan - took close to 3 weeks, Fuel tank - approx 4 weeks).

I have tried different dealers but their ability to procure parts is pretty much the same. Perhaps its a different story in Delhi or Mumbai but here in Hyderabad its a completely different picture.

Please do not assume I am bashing Fiat. There is nothing more that would make me happy than to see them do well in India. Its been close to 10 years since I have owned a Palio and I think I have experienced a lot in those 10 years.

I would love to buy a Linea TJet (to replace my aging GTX) but I think this time I will probably go for another brand. I really dont want to go thru this kind of experience all over again.

Cheers,
Manoj

[humans]

Originally Posted by vvmanoj

First to clear things, all what I have said is from personal experience.

Yes, realized this after posting and did edited my post , please check the first part of my post.

I just gave my comments based on my interactions with many people at work and otherwise who all have preconceived notions about TATA / FIAT service without experiencing it first hand.

[lejhoom]

Originally Posted by vvmanoj

On an average for any major part (again on personal experience) it takes not less than 3 weeks (on average) for parts to arrive. Manoj

Hi there,
If you happen to scroll through the Palio Users Group, you'll find mention of a certain Kava Automobiles, based out of Mumbai. Many say their requirement of spare parts for Fiat vehicles was fulfilled by this shop. Though personally I do not have any experience, it is worth trying when you are forced to wait for spares for long periods of time.