[kaiserketkar]

More than anything, the Sales and Service experience needs to be a whole lot better with both the companies.
I have yet to have one service in the 6 years that i owned my scorpio that went off uneventfully.
That having been said, I think M&M are filling a void between the ~10L scorpio and the ~18L fortuner with an SUV that'll become their flagship model. And simply because so far there isn't too many options in that 12-15L range SUV wise, I think it'll fair well. And for that reason only, i might just consider purchasing it... after all, i know the devil I'll be dealing with in this case
I'm sure M&M are burning the midnight oil to ensure that the W201 is the best they've produced so far. The only thing that might screw things up for them is the shoddy service experience. Hope not!

[girishglg]

From the time this thread began, Tata and Mahindra have launched their most premium offering, the Aria and XUV500 which are on the roads for some time now. While the Aria is hardly seen and seems to be underperforming, Mahindra have scored a win with the XUV. On the other parameters IMO if the have improved (+), same (=) not (-) for T and M

T M

• Product Finesse & Quality : = +
• Dynamics & Road behaviour : + +
• A+ engines : = =
• Space & Packaging : + +
• Overall dealership & service experience: - -
• Suspect reliability & frequent niggles : = +
• Top Level of equipment : + +
• VFM Pricing : = =

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by mgh

Manufacturers are in the business to make money, so the price point can never be irrelevant. It is always about the price point and the development costs.
Don't deride Indian companies. What makes you think that they are not quality conscious, not concerned with processes, not concerned about reliability etc, and that they have a 'Jugaad' attitude?
QC from the Japanese-how many lakh Toyotas were recalled recently in the US?
Hyundai does not have a good rating in the US.
The Indicas were styled in Europe, and they were priced aggressively.
BTW, ISO requires that the final product to meet specifications (written or otherwise) and a method to rework rejects if possible. Original (pre-V2) Indica had two major problems in a number of cars.
1. Rear suspension
2. Belt noise till the car warmed up
In the V2 and the old ones, the shocks were changed and a redesigned idler pulley was put.
Almost all major manufacturers of any item in India have ISO certification (9000 or 14000 depending on industry), and the highest international quality control award, The Deming Prize, has been won by TVS twice. So do not think that Indian Manufacturers do not know about quality control, and need to 'learn' it.

No derision here. Unfortunately in my experience it is more about ' diligence and discipline in practice ' or the lack of it, rather than either 'knowledge and learning in theory' both of which latter qualities we have in excessively large quantities. It is possibly the lack of sufficient attention to the former that causes these gaps in quality from piece to piece in the same product line itself!

[kiku007]

Ten years has passed since the time this thread was started. So what do BHPians think now? Is the glass half-full or half-empty?

After reading some of the posts in the Harrier and Thar threads I wonder if the customers lowered their expectations in the past twenty years vs. the manufacturers raising their game.

The few who question the inconsistent quality, fit and finish, ride/handling are being silenced with responses which are in the following tone,

• Don't be critical Indian manufacturers.
• Your expectations are high/wrong.

Or are these two vehicles outliers and the companies have improved so much to be worthy of selling vehicles in the 15-20 Lakhs range?

[theAutomaniac]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Ten years has passed since the time this thread was started. So what do BHPians think now? Is the glass half-full or half-empty?

After reading some of the posts in the Harrier and Thar threads I wonder if the customers lowered their expectations in the past twenty years vs. the manufacturers raising their game.

The few who question the inconsistent quality, fit and finish, ride/handling are being silenced with responses which are in the following tone,

• Don't be critical Indian manufacturers.
• Your expectations are high/wrong.

Or are these two vehicles outliers and the companies have improved so much to be worthy of selling vehicles in the 15-20 Lakhs range?

I do not think Tata has been very successful in selling 10 lakh+ costing vehicles.(Harrier is the first ever 10 lakh+ costing Tata to sell in four digits cosisitently!)

However, if we are talking about Mahindra, the game is just the opposite! Over the years Mahindra has completely built on their SUV maker brand perception and made some very successful SUVs like the Scorpio(Decade old and still a bestseller!), XUV3OO(Better sales than cars from the past!) and the XUV5OO(Disrupted the D-segment sedans and other competition completely and still sells in good numbers for the segment!) on the other side of 10 lakhs.

Regarding the future, yes Tata has really stepped up their game and their 15 lakh+ costing cars are finally good for a general customer, but what I really expect to be a step up for the segment overall, are the next generation Mahindras!

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by kiku007

Ten years has passed since the time this thread was started. So what do BHPians think now? Is the glass half-full or half-empty?

After reading some of the posts in the Harrier and Thar threads I wonder if the customers lowered their expectations in the past twenty years vs. the manufacturers raising their game.

Definitely the manufacturers have raised the game!

10 years ago, Tata/Mahindra would have fought with competition on VFM pricing, space or the fact there was no competition for a particular product at all.

Not now.
They are being bought for the styling desirability, safety/build quality, suspension tuning and engine!!! And properly compared against the competition, not just on the pricing.

Ofcourse they still have to get over that last 1/10th of fit and finish, and both seriously have to get their QC department overhauled. Not to say, standardise and heavily improve the service centres.

Also while the psychological 10 lakhs mark is still there, for all the erstwhile 10 lakhs mark has moved to 15-17 lakhs

Originally Posted by theAutomaniac

I do not think Tata has been very successful in selling 10 lakh+ costing vehicles.(Harrier is the first ever 10 lakh+ costing Tata to sell in four digits cosisitently!)
....., but what I really expect to be a step up for the segment overall, are the next generation Mahindras!

Well, product success and failures than brand played a part.

The Aria for all it's SUV traits looked like an Innova rival, but was ambitiously priced. DOA

The XUV500, though it had crossover traits had that SUV styling going for it and a stonker of an engine coupled with incredibly VFM pricing.
Like how City, Lancer customers went for the Scorpio, Civic/Cruze/Corolla customers looked at the value the XUV500 offered.

Yep, am all too excited for the next gen Scorpio and XUV500, alongwith the Ford collab models. Just pray they don't go with "sell old gen alongside the new gen" strategy.