Lexus over a BMW/Merc?

pgsagar · 24th September 2010, 12:24

Not a penny premium for Lexus. I do not like the name, the bland/boring looking logo and most models of Lexus'es look unexciting. In fact higher end Toyotas look better. Ok, Lexus may be long-lasting but a guy who can afford to pay 1 crore for a car would barely keep a car ( any car ) for over a year. So how does longevity matter? It is German trio for me. Also, even villagers knows German trio but only car enthusiasts know about one Lexus brand.

AdityaLN · 24th September 2010, 13:43

Premium for Lexus!! way no..

Though their quality might be on par or better than the other big luxury brands but as a brand it's just about 20 years old, for a luxury brand that's very less. You need to have heritage. Of the big cars markets, Lexus sells well only in the USA, from the beginning their primary target market has been USA as well. Europe has been a tough market to crack with traditional big three along with Jaguar holding on to the market share also, their thin diesel lineup might have been a problem. Toyota has started to promote Lexus in Japan in a big way only recently. Till recently they were happy to sell Lexus rebadged as Toyota than sell Lexus itself there. I am not sure how it perceived in China.

It might take a while for them to ranked along with the big three. At least they are doing way better then Acura or Infinity which are now considered a premium brands rather than Luxury ones.

avishar · 24th September 2010, 19:33

IMO heritage has little to do with reliability and luxury(maybe sports cars yes).Heritage is only advantageous in giving you a brand name,it doesnt necessarily translate into a brilliant cars over someone who has less heritage.

Lexus was primarily a brand used to crack the US market to dissociate itself from the utilitarian Toyota brand and had exlusive showrooms after sales etc.

The are already ranked among the big three.Lexus models can match itself in terms of bells and whistles with the german counterparts,and not too mention they last long too like the germans.But they dont command a premium.

Nitrous Power · 24th September 2010, 20:42

No premium for Lexus over Merc or BMW as here in US also, you get fully loaded Lexus at the same price of Base BMW or Merc. So in a way it is little bit cheaper than the Germans. But as far as reliability is concerned, Lexus is miles ahead than the others. I follow Consumer Report every year and still remember that in 2006, It stated that 1998 Lexus LS is more reliable than 2005 Merc S Class and BMW 7 Series.

stanjohn123 · 25th September 2010, 19:00

Lexus can demand a premium for its class and reliability. The others cant hold a candle next to this factor.

Cyrus43 · 25th September 2010, 19:13

Lexus's are boxy soulless cars. Why should one Pay more for an LF-A if he can get a Merc SLR or a 599 or something for the same...

hemantwaghe · 25th September 2010, 22:07

Premium no way! I am not regular contributor but in marketing for long.
I feel heritage ,identity is important,that gives product a soul.

In fact if I have enough money I will definatly pay premium for Jag but enen will pay premium for Cadillac too!

strips007 · 25th September 2010, 22:29

Although I did not own either of these but I have friends who owned these brands. I think it comes to what you are looking for. If you are looking for a car which is very reliable, best interiors, quite ride, Lexus is the way to go. BMW is fun to drive but that is it, it's not as reliable as Lexus, more maintenance. I guess these are at par on engine tech. I don't have info about Merc.

Lexus has much better SUV offering than other due to Land Rover heritage.

Also Infiniti and Acura are also very good. I would buy a Infiniti or Lexus (not going to happen in this life) but anyway.

Champion · 26th September 2010, 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by strips007

Although I did not own either of these but I have friends who owned these brands. I think it comes to what you are looking for. If you are looking for a car which is very reliable, best interiors, quite ride, Lexus is the way to go. BMW is fun to drive but that is it, it's not as reliable as Lexus, more maintenance. I guess these are at par on engine tech. I don't have info about Merc.

Lexus has much better SUV offering than other due to Land Rover heritage.

Also Infiniti and Acura are also very good. I would buy a Infiniti or Lexus (not going to happen in this life) but anyway.

I presume that should have been "Land Cruiser" heritage. Lexus is one of the most respectable brands out here in the Middle-East. It's reliable, sleek, cheaper to maintain (in camparo to the trio that most talk of), and most important of all has a better re-sale value than any of the trio. An easy to go car that doesn't pester for more but gives abundance by means of luxury, brand image (in the Middle-East atleast) and a pleasant ownership experience. My Dad's ride is the 2007 ES350 and we haven't looked out for anything else from then. She has been this silent warrior always delivering and never demanding.

But but, if for all this, will I pay a premium for the Lexus if launched in India, NO! For all it's positives, I feel the Lexus isn't a match for the German trio. It's a compensation, not the real thing. But again, for those who are talking heritage, well the Germans started at some point anew and the Japs will be there soon.

And for all my talk, I hit the 10-20% premium option in an enthu moment when I read Lexus. Pardon my eagerness (if you can call it that). And to close with, like someone earlier in the disscussion said, as it is Toyota doesn't price it's present offerings competitively, there's no talking about what it would do with a Lexus!

Cheers
Champion

Zero Cool · 26th September 2010, 12:30

IMO lexus is just as good as a beamer or a merc, so no point in paying any premium.

bhpbreather · 27th September 2010, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlatzdaTurbo

Audi vs BMW vs Mercedes Benz
&
Acura vs Infiniti vs Lexus

They have enough to worry about from their local rivals to even look at other countries

Bang on track buddy! IMHO Acura Infiniti and Lexus are a class lower than BMW and Mercedes. I would place Audi in between the two.

Sn1p3r · 27th September 2010, 13:18

Sorry did not go through the complete thread but it is quite a shock to find buyers for GS at 1cr.

Lexus became famous for Toyota reliability while GM focused on SUVs and German giant Merc was in shambles due to their cost cutting era, BMW was tagged as only for sporty kinds and Audi was VW's try to become Merc. German trio got their act together (Merc focused on its dynamics and quality, Audi came out of shadows of VW and BMW was able to flaunt the 7series).

Lexus now is facing tough time with its share of recalls and the second hand market in US (quite huge) governs some respect due to it reliability factor.

I would pay less for a Lexus than the Germans.

Gooney · 27th September 2010, 14:09

I voted "no."

Lexus as a brand has a long way to go in the Indian market, before it commands the respect it gets in the West. If given a choice, an average person in India, with the money, but not a car enthusiast, would prefer Toyota to the Lexus brand. I won't be surprised if Toyota introduces Lexus for the first time in India as "Toyota Lexus!"

Moreover, comparing the Lexus marquee to the German trio is not an apple-to-apple comparison in the strictest sense. Lexus is considered as a quiet graduation to luxury and oppulence from other reliable and efficient (mostly) Asian cars while keeping maintainence costs minimum. I am quite certain the owner demographics of the German trio and the Lexus brand will be very different.

karthik123 · 27th September 2010, 18:13

If they price lexus just a notch below the germans, like they priced Accord vs Merc C or the 3, then i guess people will buy it. If they price it along with the germans or more than germans, they should buy their return tickets after a month.

cijo · 30th September 2010, 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by karthik123

If they price lexus just a notch below the germans, like they priced Accord vs Merc C or the 3, then i guess people will buy it. If they price it along with the germans or more than germans, they should buy their return tickets after a month.

i agree
The lexus will be super expensive in India like other toyota CBU .In SUVs ,a cayenne or range rover or G class is a better choice than LX 570

View Poll Results: If Lexus were sold in India like BMW or Merc, how much premium would you pay for it?
None	181	80.80%
0-10%	18	8.04%
10-20%	15	6.70%
20-30%	5	2.23%
30-40%	5	2.23%
above 40%	0	0%
Voters: 224. You may not vote on this poll

24th September 2010, 12:24	#31
pgsagar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Vizag Posts: 2,628 Thanked: 3,561 Times View My Garage	Not a penny premium for Lexus. I do not like the name, the bland/boring looking logo and most models of Lexus'es look unexciting. In fact higher end Toyotas look better. Ok, Lexus may be long-lasting but a guy who can afford to pay 1 crore for a car would barely keep a car ( any car ) for over a year. So how does longevity matter? It is German trio for me. Also, even villagers knows German trio but only car enthusiasts know about one Lexus brand.
	() Thanks

24th September 2010, 13:43	#32
AdityaLN BHPian Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bangalore Posts: 83 Thanked: 24 Times	Premium for Lexus!! way no.. Though their quality might be on par or better than the other big luxury brands but as a brand it's just about 20 years old, for a luxury brand that's very less. You need to have heritage. Of the big cars markets, Lexus sells well only in the USA, from the beginning their primary target market has been USA as well. Europe has been a tough market to crack with traditional big three along with Jaguar holding on to the market share also, their thin diesel lineup might have been a problem. Toyota has started to promote Lexus in Japan in a big way only recently. Till recently they were happy to sell Lexus rebadged as Toyota than sell Lexus itself there. I am not sure how it perceived in China. It might take a while for them to ranked along with the big three. At least they are doing way better then Acura or Infinity which are now considered a premium brands rather than Luxury ones.
	() Thanks

24th September 2010, 19:33	#33
avishar Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: kolkata/bangalore,india Posts: 2,901 Thanked: 4,143 Times	IMO heritage has little to do with reliability and luxury(maybe sports cars yes).Heritage is only advantageous in giving you a brand name,it doesnt necessarily translate into a brilliant cars over someone who has less heritage. Lexus was primarily a brand used to crack the US market to dissociate itself from the utilitarian Toyota brand and had exlusive showrooms after sales etc. The are already ranked among the big three.Lexus models can match itself in terms of bells and whistles with the german counterparts,and not too mention they last long too like the germans.But they dont command a premium.
	() Thanks

24th September 2010, 20:42	#34
Nitrous Power BHPian Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Anand, Gujarat / Virginia Beach, US Posts: 490 Thanked: 273 Times	No premium for Lexus over Merc or BMW as here in US also, you get fully loaded Lexus at the same price of Base BMW or Merc. So in a way it is little bit cheaper than the Germans. But as far as reliability is concerned, Lexus is miles ahead than the others. I follow Consumer Report every year and still remember that in 2006, It stated that 1998 Lexus LS is more reliable than 2005 Merc S Class and BMW 7 Series.
	() Thanks

25th September 2010, 19:00	#35
stanjohn123 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: TN 75 Posts: 1,345 Thanked: 1,798 Times View My Garage	Lexus can demand a premium for its class and reliability. The others cant hold a candle next to this factor.
	() Thanks

25th September 2010, 19:13	#36
Cyrus43 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: London Posts: 5,019 Thanked: 221 Times View My Garage	Lexus's are boxy soulless cars. Why should one Pay more for an LF-A if he can get a Merc SLR or a 599 or something for the same...
	() Thanks

25th September 2010, 22:07	#37
hemantwaghe BHPian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Mumbai Posts: 27 Thanked: 2 Times	Premium no way! I am not regular contributor but in marketing for long. I feel heritage ,identity is important,that gives product a soul. In fact if I have enough money I will definatly pay premium for Jag but enen will pay premium for Cadillac too!
	() Thanks

25th September 2010, 22:29	#38
strips007 BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: delhi Posts: 41 Thanked: 3 Times	Although I did not own either of these but I have friends who owned these brands. I think it comes to what you are looking for. If you are looking for a car which is very reliable, best interiors, quite ride, Lexus is the way to go. BMW is fun to drive but that is it, it's not as reliable as Lexus, more maintenance. I guess these are at par on engine tech. I don't have info about Merc. Lexus has much better SUV offering than other due to Land Rover heritage. Also Infiniti and Acura are also very good. I would buy a Infiniti or Lexus (not going to happen in this life) but anyway.
	() Thanks

26th September 2010, 12:30	#40
Zero Cool BHPian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 202 Thanked: 6 Times	IMO lexus is just as good as a beamer or a merc, so no point in paying any premium.
	() Thanks

27th September 2010, 13:18	#42
Sn1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 1,022 Thanked: 231 Times View My Garage	Sorry did not go through the complete thread but it is quite a shock to find buyers for GS at 1cr. Lexus became famous for Toyota reliability while GM focused on SUVs and German giant Merc was in shambles due to their cost cutting era, BMW was tagged as only for sporty kinds and Audi was VW's try to become Merc. German trio got their act together (Merc focused on its dynamics and quality, Audi came out of shadows of VW and BMW was able to flaunt the 7series). Lexus now is facing tough time with its share of recalls and the second hand market in US (quite huge) governs some respect due to it reliability factor. I would pay less for a Lexus than the Germans.
	() Thanks

27th September 2010, 14:09	#43
Gooney BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Guwahati Posts: 348 Thanked: 78 Times	I voted "no." Lexus as a brand has a long way to go in the Indian market, before it commands the respect it gets in the West. If given a choice, an average person in India, with the money, but not a car enthusiast, would prefer Toyota to the Lexus brand. I won't be surprised if Toyota introduces Lexus for the first time in India as "Toyota Lexus!" Moreover, comparing the Lexus marquee to the German trio is not an apple-to-apple comparison in the strictest sense. Lexus is considered as a quiet graduation to luxury and oppulence from other reliable and efficient (mostly) Asian cars while keeping maintainence costs minimum. I am quite certain the owner demographics of the German trio and the Lexus brand will be very different.
	() Thanks

27th September 2010, 18:13	#44
karthik123 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 74 Thanked: 35 Times	If they price lexus just a notch below the germans, like they priced Accord vs Merc C or the 3, then i guess people will buy it. If they price it along with the germans or more than germans, they should buy their return tickets after a month.
	() Thanks