Lexus over a BMW/Merc?

Jeeper1941 · 26th September 2011, 12:38

Lexuses are just overpriced Toyotas. I wouldn't even consider them to be in the same league as the Germans (Mercedes/BMW/Audi). Same goes for Acura (re-badged Honda) and Infiniti (re-badged Nissan).

Nitrous Power · 26th September 2011, 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeeper1941

Lexuses are just overpriced Toyotas. I wouldn't even consider them to be in the same league as the Germans (Mercedes/BMW/Audi). Same goes for Acura (re-badged Honda) and Infiniti (re-badged Nissan).

A sweeping statement that Lexuses are overpriced Toyotas. Can you please elaborate how?

But you are right, Lexus can't be in same league is the Germans with way superior reliability than that Germans can't even think about.

P.S.: We own both, Merc & BMW and my family owns couple of Lexuses and what I said is from past experiences.

chevelle · 26th September 2011, 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeeper1941

Lexuses are just overpriced Toyotas. I wouldn't even consider them to be in the same league as the Germans (Mercedes/BMW/Audi). Same goes for Acura (re-badged Honda) and Infiniti (re-badged Nissan).

If driving experience is considered, Acura and Infiniti's are closest to BMW and Audi than Lexus. Many comparisons by auto mags support this and time and again Infinitis and Acuras have won those comparison. And needless to say, i haven't even started on features, reliability and interior space. Drive one and you had be surprised.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitrous Power

A sweeping statement that Lexuses are overpriced Toyotas. Can you please elaborate how?

But you are right, Lexus can't be in same league is the Germans with way superior reliability than that Germans can't even think about.

P.S.: We own both, Merc & BMW and my family owns couple of Lexuses and what I said is from past experiences.

Since Lexus are made of Toyota's platform he may have made that statement. To an extent i agree with him, but there are couple of cars from Lexus stable which are involving to drive like IS350, ISF, LF-A. But on the whole, i find ES, IS250, IS300, LS450 very boring to drive. Their SUVs are again based on Toyota's platform like LX570 is basically a Toyota LC200 with some more equipment and minor changes.

Driving experience can't be compared, its where BMW and Merc beats Lexus left, right and center. But Lexus shoots back with luxury, reliability and features. So, its a matter of priority.

One important thing to note is, as per survey, Lexus's average buying age is more than BMW, Merc and Audi, Infiniti, Acura. Its around 55 years while others are in higher 40s. The ES range has an average of 61 years. More here: Club Lexus Forums - View Single Post - Debunking the Lexus age myth

Nitrous Power · 26th September 2011, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevelle

Since Lexus are made of Toyota's platform he may have made that statement. To an extent i agree with him, but there are couple of cars from Lexus stable which are involving to drive like IS350, ISF, LF-A. But on the whole, i find ES, IS250, IS300, LS450 very boring to drive. Their SUVs are again based on Toyota's platform like LX570 is basically a Toyota LC200 with some more equipment and minor changes.

Driving experience can't be compared, its where BMW and Merc beats Lexus left, right and center. But Lexus shoots back with luxury, reliability and features. So, its a matter of priority.
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Agreed completely on driving factors, and that is the reason that we have Merc and Beemer in our garage over Lexus. It's all about priorities: Driving Pleasure (German) or Peace of Mind (Jap). But my point is, Lexus is not over priced Toyota, not at all.

Would you call Audi an overpriced VW or Skoda? They all share same chassis an engines for particular models.

Jeeper1941 · 27th September 2011, 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitrous Power

A sweeping statement that Lexuses are overpriced Toyotas. Can you please elaborate how?

But you are right, Lexus can't be in same league is the Germans with way superior reliability than that Germans can't even think about.

P.S.: We own both, Merc & BMW and my family owns couple of Lexuses and what I said is from past experiences.

We've had Mercs and BMWs in my family for over 30 years now. No major issues. Not a single issue since 1994.

Can't say the same for a Lexus. My cousin had one, the servicing costs were enormous, even though it was serviced in the same Toyota service centre. The highest we've ever paid for servicing a Merc/BMW was $100 (service costs are built into these cars here, Lexus/Toyota doesn't have this plan).

Nitrous Power · 27th September 2011, 05:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeeper1941

We've had Mercs and BMWs in my family for over 30 years now. No major issues. Not a single issue since 1994.

Can't say the same for a Lexus. My cousin had one, the servicing costs were enormous, even though it was serviced in the same Toyota service centre. The highest we've ever paid for servicing a Merc/BMW was $100 (service costs are built into these cars here, Lexus/Toyota doesn't have this plan).

Well, earlier benz were built like tank, over engineered. But it's not true for models from late nineties. Please check this forum regarding Merc reliability.

Service cost of $100.00 for Beemer? My 550i oil change costs me around 350.00.

C300 · 27th September 2011, 09:01

No premium please. In fact Lexus should be priced below the Germans.

andromeda · 27th September 2011, 09:47

Voted for No premium. In fact, I believe Lexus/Acura/Infiniti are sold at a discount to Merc/BMW. I do know that a lot of internal parts of an Audi are from VW. That's how they manage to undercut the Mercs/BMWs when it comes to pricing. Not sure if it's the same case with so-called Japanese Luxury brands. Also, when a customer is looking at this Luxury segment, I'm sure that 'reliable trouble-free' run over 100,000 miles is NOT in his top requirements.

stanjohn123 · 28th September 2011, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by andromeda

Also, when a customer is looking at this Luxury segment, I'm sure that 'reliable trouble-free' run over 100,000 miles is NOT in his top requirements.

This is so not true

. In fact this should be somewhere on the top of their list.

stanjohn123 · 28th September 2011, 11:57

Lexus is clearly highly reliable and over engineered. I can vouch for this. But a premium clearly should not be charged for that by Lexus since I believe few minor internal parts are shared with Toyota.

Anarchy83 · 29th September 2011, 11:30

As a person who had the pleasure of owning both a Mercedes and a Lexus, let me assure you of two things:

a) Neither are hyper-luxury cars - they are definitely premium, however the owner is concerned about not burning a hole in their pocket

b) Reliability is a multifaceted thing - I don't want to wait for a week as the spare part I need is on its way from Germany

The Mercedes was gorgeous, no doubt, but stressful during maintenance. I had mentioned it in one of my posts some time back, but just to re-iterate - almost all the maintenance trips during the twilight of the Mercedes' life with my family costed as much as a new Pulsar bike. Of course, I might be putting things into an indianized view, since at the time we were in Oman and the prices there are slightly higher (not for the car itself - the car was cheaper, but the services were higher). And Mercedes is into a lot of "Preventative Maintenance". This translates to,"I didn't ask your permission, but I changed the whatchamacallit since it only had 5000 km worth of life in it. Oh, and by the way, it costs you 20 gabazillion dollars". This does not make me too happy.

Lexus on the other hand got it right from the get go. Here is a car which is definitely posh as hell, cool as the devil and performs like a German Shepherd on steroids. Add to this the stress-free maintenance, and you have a winning recipe. I will admit that the Lexus does not have the same "make your head turn" factor as the Mercedes, but that's alright by me. True, they use some Toyota components, but that doesn't define the car in totality. Just because I use MRF tyres on my Endy instead of Michelins, doesn't mean the Endy should have a price reduction.

Lexus charges you for a well-executed joy - the parts might be from Toyota, but here I will ask why not? Toyota is a brand built on reliability. Why re-invent the wheel when what you have works fine. But does the engine come from the standard Toyota stables? No it doesn't - and this is the heart of the car, at least for me. I would be very disappointed if Lexus went the German way and tried to create parts specifically for the Lexus range, and the parts are not on par with the normal Toyota parts.

Add to this the irritation of waiting for parts (for the Mercedes). I hate hearing "I'm sorry sir, but you'll need to leave your car here for a week. The part we need is being shipped from Germany.". Really? You're telling me that a Mercedes service center is not stocked on common wear-n-tear parts? Of course, to their credit Mercedes does give you a loaner car (and you have a choice between 2-3 cars that they keep), and it feels like you're being taken care of. Today my cousin faces the same issue with Skoda - minus the loaner car. Some parts have to be shipped in and the customer is car less for some time.

Indians, Motor-heads, Brothers - Buy the Lexus and roar on.

View Poll Results: If Lexus were sold in India like BMW or Merc, how much premium would you pay for it?
None	181	80.80%
0-10%	18	8.04%
10-20%	15	6.70%
20-30%	5	2.23%
30-40%	5	2.23%
above 40%	0	0%
Voters: 224. You may not vote on this poll

26th September 2011, 12:38	#61
Jeeper1941 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Adelaide Posts: 229 Thanked: 380 Times View My Garage	Re: Lexus over a BMW/Merc? Lexuses are just overpriced Toyotas. I wouldn't even consider them to be in the same league as the Germans (Mercedes/BMW/Audi). Same goes for Acura (re-badged Honda) and Infiniti (re-badged Nissan).
	() Thanks

27th September 2011, 09:01	#67
C300 BHPian Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pune, Melbourne Posts: 771 Thanked: 1,027 Times	Re: Lexus over a BMW/Merc? No premium please. In fact Lexus should be priced below the Germans.
	() Thanks

27th September 2011, 09:47	#68
andromeda BHPian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: ATL<-->BLR Posts: 141 Thanked: 36 Times	Re: Lexus over a BMW/Merc? Voted for No premium. In fact, I believe Lexus/Acura/Infiniti are sold at a discount to Merc/BMW. I do know that a lot of internal parts of an Audi are from VW. That's how they manage to undercut the Mercs/BMWs when it comes to pricing. Not sure if it's the same case with so-called Japanese Luxury brands. Also, when a customer is looking at this Luxury segment, I'm sure that 'reliable trouble-free' run over 100,000 miles is NOT in his top requirements.
	() Thanks

28th September 2011, 11:57	#70
stanjohn123 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: TN 75 Posts: 1,345 Thanked: 1,798 Times View My Garage	Re: Lexus over a BMW/Merc? Lexus is clearly highly reliable and over engineered. I can vouch for this. But a premium clearly should not be charged for that by Lexus since I believe few minor internal parts are shared with Toyota.
	() Thanks

29th September 2011, 11:30	#71
Anarchy83 BHPian Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Bangalore Posts: 63 Thanked: 47 Times View My Garage	Re: Lexus over a BMW/Merc? As a person who had the pleasure of owning both a Mercedes and a Lexus, let me assure you of two things: a) Neither are hyper-luxury cars - they are definitely premium, however the owner is concerned about not burning a hole in their pocket b) Reliability is a multifaceted thing - I don't want to wait for a week as the spare part I need is on its way from Germany The Mercedes was gorgeous, no doubt, but stressful during maintenance. I had mentioned it in one of my posts some time back, but just to re-iterate - almost all the maintenance trips during the twilight of the Mercedes' life with my family costed as much as a new Pulsar bike. Of course, I might be putting things into an indianized view, since at the time we were in Oman and the prices there are slightly higher (not for the car itself - the car was cheaper, but the services were higher). And Mercedes is into a lot of "Preventative Maintenance". This translates to,"I didn't ask your permission, but I changed the whatchamacallit since it only had 5000 km worth of life in it. Oh, and by the way, it costs you 20 gabazillion dollars". This does not make me too happy. Lexus on the other hand got it right from the get go. Here is a car which is definitely posh as hell, cool as the devil and performs like a German Shepherd on steroids. Add to this the stress-free maintenance, and you have a winning recipe. I will admit that the Lexus does not have the same "make your head turn" factor as the Mercedes, but that's alright by me. True, they use some Toyota components, but that doesn't define the car in totality. Just because I use MRF tyres on my Endy instead of Michelins, doesn't mean the Endy should have a price reduction. Lexus charges you for a well-executed joy - the parts might be from Toyota, but here I will ask why not? Toyota is a brand built on reliability. Why re-invent the wheel when what you have works fine. But does the engine come from the standard Toyota stables? No it doesn't - and this is the heart of the car, at least for me. I would be very disappointed if Lexus went the German way and tried to create parts specifically for the Lexus range, and the parts are not on par with the normal Toyota parts. Add to this the irritation of waiting for parts (for the Mercedes). I hate hearing "I'm sorry sir, but you'll need to leave your car here for a week. The part we need is being shipped from Germany.". Really? You're telling me that a Mercedes service center is not stocked on common wear-n-tear parts? Of course, to their credit Mercedes does give you a loaner car (and you have a choice between 2-3 cars that they keep), and it feels like you're being taken care of. Today my cousin faces the same issue with Skoda - minus the loaner car. Some parts have to be shipped in and the customer is car less for some time. Indians, Motor-heads, Brothers - Buy the Lexus and roar on.
	() Thanks