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Old 1st October 2010, 17:57   #31
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City's bumper sales is also due to the lucrative discounts on offer. Right now, you can get almost a 50K discount which means there is hardly any difference between the Vento Petrol HL and City V-MT.

Since a few of my friends are currently in the process of upgrading from small hatches to sedans, they can't think of anything but the City! The City has managed to create the impression of the 'THE CAR' in the 10-lakh rupee segment sedan market. For any competition to change this perception is not going to be easy! It has to beat the City not marginally but convincingly.

And as all of us knows, Indians tend to have the herd mentality, something like -
3 L -> Alto
4L -> WagonR
5L -> Swift/I10. Figo is the only car to make real impact due to extreme VFM proposition
6L -> I20

6-7L sedan -> Dezire/Manza
10L Sedan ->City

Last edited by adimicra : 1st October 2010 at 17:59.
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Old 1st October 2010, 17:58   #32
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GTO, Please note that currently Toyota is not able to meet its demands as there is major production constraints for its Innova , Fortuner & Altis.

Incremental volumes over petrol does not matter.

Altis is still the KING of the segment
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Old 1st October 2010, 18:06   #33
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1) i10 selling only as much as WagonR should be worrying Hyundai. especially when the i10 has 2 engine options and so many more variants than the Wagon R - it should ideally be capturing sales from across the small car segment

2) Honda City sales - defiently a boost due to the "unseen" discounts in a Honda so far ( minus the Jazz may be ). This shows that there are a lot of people who find taking that plunge that much more easier with this modest discount. Honda anyway should be seen holding these discounts for atleast 3-6 months till they see the Vento sales stabilising. Honda should do something about the Civic and Accord sales.

With the number of City ( across generations ) customers in the market, its such a big opportunity for Honda to merely provide a good product as a logical upgrade for them. But most of them are now moving out of the brand when they upgrade

3) Bolero - while its a capable vehicle , I have a strong feeling that govt/institutional purchase in Sep might have given a big boost. Isnt there the depreciation related benefit ?

4) Nano sales - whats happening ? is it due to production issues ?
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Old 1st October 2010, 18:08   #34
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@bkbkr1212 & @extreme_torque,
Lets get back to sales.

Usually there is vast difference between a hatch, and the sedan based on that hatch, like:
Swift 11.9K, Dzire 8.5K,
Polo 2.8K, Vento 1.3K.
So hatch sale is far greater than sedan. But Punto is 902 while Linea is 724, not much difference. This means Punto is really under-performing. Any thoughts?

Last edited by diabloo : 1st October 2010 at 18:11.
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Old 1st October 2010, 18:15   #35
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Moderators Note: This is a sales thread. Please keep off topic posts and personal bias out of it. All such posts will henceforth be infracted.
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Old 1st October 2010, 18:16   #36
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
But Punto is 902 while Linea is 724, not much difference. This means Punto is really under-performing. Any thoughts?
It indeed is under-performing. Linea seems like a value for money for what it is offering, but Punto looks a little more expensive.

I say that both Punto and Linea are under-performing.
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Old 1st October 2010, 18:17   #37
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Those are pretty interesting sales figures for the month of September 2010.

1. Total number of tally for FIAT is very dismissal, like discussed in T jet thread fiat needs to promote their product through proper advertising. They have it in their product yet poor effort from FIAT who is waiting for things to be happen rather than making things happen for them.

2. Ford's setting around 6.5 k mark this must be more than satisfactory number's for FORD to digest with.

3. Hyundai's are really doing good i20 marked as premium hatch in India is doing significantly well doing more number than Santro.( i know both ofthem are from different segment)

4. Mahindra, what magic has bolero created 8.1k that really superb for them, also scorpio doing numbers at par with innova and xylo doing touch more than 3k.

5. Tata, Vista's drivetech 4 technology has hardly done anything for them, its more of older tata's niggling issue image or new products launching are more superior compared to theirs. TATA you need to soon find out.

6. Maruti, we hear INDIA drives home in Maruti that says it all. Alto with 31k the new engine and looks has done wonders for a product which was earlier doing well but then dropped.

7. Honda, City still the top notch performer and leader in its class.

8. VW, with polo doing good number its vento who will gradually pick up sales at par within its segment if not with the best.

GTO hatts off for the figures

Last edited by driving_smartly : 1st October 2010 at 18:19.
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Old 1st October 2010, 18:17   #38
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I am absolutely shocked seeing City's numbers! Its selling as much as the Ford Figo allegedly with average interiors and equipment levels. Fiat sales have been steadily going down, a shame when you consider the cars themselves are pretty good.
Interiors are not that bad now, though yes for a car that is 10 lacs+,should have been more in terms of interiors and equipment. The overall ownership experience and the "aspirational" value go in its favor. Probably the little discount that people got, has pulled more towards it( free insurance deals)
The momentum is in its favor too, and probably those waiting for the vento and looking at buying a petrol, have clearly found nothing to wait for. 10 years and segment leadership, tough to displace it!
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Old 1st October 2010, 19:29   #39
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Where are the figures for the Tata Manza, if they are integrated with the "Tata Indigo+Marina" then its not a fair thing to do since Manza, Indigo and even Marina are quite different to each other...
Old 1st October 2010, 19:30   #40
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While the herd mentality argument makes sense, there are also a few more reasons to back up with certain models in certain price bracket (Alto, wagonR, i10, Swift, City) are so popular.

A. There must be something inherently right with these products to make them sell in the first place (the Swift is still a competitive product, the Alto K10 is fast and frugal for less outlay, and the wagonR is quite a practical city car).

B. These models (brands) have been around for a long time now, and the brand name itself means people are willing to trust them.

C. Peace-of-mind; after all, we already have enough busy lives. We want products which run well, can be serviced well and don't require much attention (Marutis and Hyundai have this image).

D. It is a cycle, more sales = more acceptance = more information to public = more willing to trust the car = more sales. These vehicles will also have a much better resale value.

E. Fuel Economy, Fuel Economy, Fuel Economy! With petrol prices going up on a regular basis, its no wonder people want to save some money in running costs, hence willing to compromise on other factors.

I guess it will take superb VFM (e.g Figo), good quality and snob appeal (VW), reliability (Toyota) to really make a dent in the market, against the now well entrenched Maruti and Hyundai. Chevrolet, Fiat, Mitsubishi seem to be caught between a rock and a hard place.

But am really surprised at the Nano's numbers for the month. Not even in the Top 10. Tata has got a huge starter advantage in the low cost A-Segment. Before Hyundai and Maruti launch their products in the coming years, they should sort out the Nano's quality issues, introduce newer variants (including a better specced version and a diesel); else they will be swamped by the Maruti/Hyundai onslaught.
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Old 1st October 2010, 20:17   #41
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Ford Figo becoming ford's flagship model.
Ford figo,i20,Vento,Honda City and Cruize are the stars now.
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Old 1st October 2010, 20:35   #42
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Originally Posted by mykal shoemaker View Post
Ford Figo becoming ford's flagship model.
Ford figo,i20,Vento,Honda City and Cruize are the stars now.
Absolutely agree that the figo is the flagship model for ford. Like in the US car manufacturers will be identified by the make of the car! excellent!
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Old 1st October 2010, 20:40   #43
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Great data there GTO not sure how you managed to get them so soon.
Some observation from my end.

City seems not ending its dream run. Time for Toyota or Global Ford fiesta or Renault sedans to take over.

Maruti doesnt seem to be marketing much but still Eeco is selling good 6.4K.

Figo good numbers constantly beating Ritz. It shows Indians seek value more than styling / modern design.
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Old 1st October 2010, 20:53   #44
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@ GTO and other experts: How do you foresee the future of Fiat as a car manufacturer in India in the next couple of years. I am a bit aprehensive with the following thoughts:

- Fiat does not have many models, outside, that it can offer at the budget that Indian market demands

- The sale of the recent offerings (punto and linea) is so low compared to competition.

- Fiat is doing very well here as an engine supplier and can utilize its infrastructure and plant setups to manufacture only engines for other brands (domestic and export)

- Fiat does not have any dedicated dealerships/workshops so investment in this region is not high.

These points coupled with the lathergic approach of Fiat to improve on their weak areas cast an impression that Fiat is standing with its back pressed against the wall and with a further push it might easily pull out from our market from the role of a car manufacturer. Fiat may tweak some clauses in the JV with tata and continue happily as an engine supplier only.

Now my sense of economics and judgement of these sort of things are pathetic and may be so is this question, but would really like to hear your take on this.

The Team-bhp advice section suggests not to buy phased out cars and cars from makers who may withdraw from the market anytime soon. So does it make Fiat cars a safe buy now?

Last edited by SilkDrive : 1st October 2010 at 20:57.
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Old 1st October 2010, 21:06   #45
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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
FIAT 500 was a very confused launch.
The name is misleading. People seem to think it is a 500 cc car!

Good show by Maruti, especially Alto. It seems to be running away with the ball, with the nano nowhere in sight. The K10 seems to have given a fillip to the model. Pity we can't get the K10/800 break-up.

I feel i20 is attracting many customers from the sedan segment.

Last edited by Gansan : 1st October 2010 at 21:22.
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