[DRC]

Originally Posted by EARTHed

Is electronics all about a fuse? Nothing else(electronics) can go wrong?

Sorry If I misled you my friend. I did not mean it. Nor do I mean that mechanicals means only changing flat tyres. All I meant was, a little bit of aptitude in electrical/electronics too may save a flat bed situation.

[Aroy]

Industrial Electronics reliability is completely different from consumer electronics. Compared to consumer electronics, that for cars has to weather higher temparature range, lot more shock not to mention current and voltage surges.

A poorly (hastily!) designed electronics with inferior (well, not specified properly) will always let you down. That is the reason for extremely high priced components (and assemblies) for industrial & military hardware.

Barring a few cases of mechanical damage (or may I say service incompetence) most of the premier vehicle break downs are attributed to either electronics hardware or software. That is where the current manufacturers should stress, as to a user it makes no difference what failed as he is equally stranded due to a broken suspension as due to failed electronic component. This is borne out by the fact that till there were no electronics the Germans produced excellent vehicles, but come electronics and they are in doldrums.

[DRC]

Originally Posted by Aroy

Industrial Electronics reliability is completely different from consumer electronics. Compared to consumer electronics, that for cars has to weather higher temparature range, lot more shock not to mention current and voltage surges.

A poorly (hastily!) designed electronics with inferior (well, not specified properly) will always let you down. That is the reason for extremely high priced components (and assemblies) for industrial & military hardware.

Barring a few cases of mechanical damage (or may I say service incompetence) most of the premier vehicle break downs are attributed to either electronics hardware or software. That is where the current manufacturers should stress, as to a user it makes no difference what failed as he is equally stranded due to a broken suspension as due to failed electronic component. This is borne out by the fact that till there were no electronics the Germans produced excellent vehicles, but come electronics and they are in doldrums.

Exactly my point. It boils down to quality, not whether it is electronics or mechanicals. And possibley the reason, why Japs cars are so reliable in spite of electronics.

Off topic: I have been in the business of designing electronic hardware and software for industrial and telecom industry and worked with both EU and Jap customers. Let me tell you, the kind of attention the germans paid towards the parts placement and ejector handles, they never seemed so worried about the actual electrical implimentation. While Japs were extremely picky about the quality of execution including the typo errors in e-mails. Looking back, I am not surprised about the flatbed situation we are all talking about.

[rohanjf]

Originally Posted by Aroy

A poorly (hastily!) designed electronics with inferior (well, not specified properly) will always let you down. That is the reason for extremely high priced components (and assemblies) for industrial & military hardware.

+1 to this! Is it outsourcing that is doing the damage? I am sure that some of the electronics (or at least, the software for them) are developed outside Germany. I believe that there is a huge difference in the way software is developed in Germany compared to the way it is done in other (that is, cost-effective) countries. (Well, I work for a German software giant and so I know ;-) ).

[coolclouds]

Spotted this Z4 in Bangalore, towards the showroom on a flatbed.

[Tejas@perioimpl]

Guys,

Many times cars get delivered to the showroom on flatbeds.

Also,
An acquaintance of mine who was too busy to pick up his 7 series was delivered his brand new vehicle to his house on a flat bed.

So, not every car on a flatbed is a lost case.

[DRIV3R]

Originally Posted by coolclouds

Spotted this Z4 in Bangalore, towards the showroom on a flatbed.

Why?

You have named the same car 'brand new', here. And now this.

Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl

Guys,

Many times cars get delivered to the showroom on flatbeds.

Also,
An acquaintance of mine who was too busy to pick up his 7 series was delivered his brand new vehicle to his house on a flat bed.

So, not every car on a flatbed is a lost case.

True.

[coolclouds]

Originally Posted by DRIV3R

Why?

You have named the same car 'brand new', here. And now this.

True.

I said it towards the `showroom', not to `workshop' only to say another German spotted on flatbed.

[rjalihal]

What if a luxury import SUV conks off in the middle of an estate (say Coorg/Chikmagalur). Will the dealer oblige to send a flatbed from Bangalore all the way to the estate to pick up the SUV/car or is it at owner's expense?

[khoj]

I do not know about others but Mitsubishi offers this service within a 200km radius from an authorized service center. For distances beyond that charges apply. Mitsubishi's road side assistance service is outsourced to a company called 'Mondial', and I am guessing that they must be the third party provider for several other OEMs too and the terms would be similar.

[typeOnegative]

Originally Posted by carboy

However, maybe US is probably not as clean as Europe. Also lots of places in US which are not as cold as Europe - so that's probably why they are unreliable in the US also.

I do not know if you were being sarcastic, but it is true. The climate variation from New England and the Great Lakes to Texas and Florida is huge. My take is that the Germans are on another learning curve. Toyota has already been involved in a recall. Waiting for the rest of the Japanese to start having defects.

Churn in any industry is normal and to an extent desirable as well. Helps innovation.

P.S. I think that Fiat cars are reliably unreliable. Heh heh. No offence, I am a Fiat owner as well.

[oss]

Sedans in the 20/25 lac+ category are so complicated and use so much of electronics that it is difficult for the service guy to do any quick fix at the road side, to the get the car driven to the service station. They need OBD to even start figuring out what went wrong, and what to replace that they end up suggesting flat-bed as the first option to be towed.

Now it's a different thing that all the high end sedans in our country happen to be Germans. Camry/Accord happen to be as high end as the Jap sedan in India are.

Why blame the Germans when the Japs don't have any high end sedans in India......

[carboy]

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

I do not know if you were being sarcastic, but it is true.

Yes, I was. The fact is the more expensive the product the more extremes it should be able to handle. Defending german cars saying that they are too good for Indian conditions is downright silly. If they can't then they shouldn't sell it here - it's not as if it was purchased in the grey market.
Maybe Mercedes & BMW should tie up with Maruti & pay Maruti some money for knowledge transfer on how to build reliable cars - Maruti is able to do it at a 2 lakh price point.

[typeOnegative]

Originally Posted by carboy

Yes, I was. The fact is the more expensive the product the more extremes it should be able to handle. Defending german cars saying that they are too good for Indian conditions is downright silly. If they can't then they shouldn't sell it here - it's not as if it was purchased in the grey market.

No one can generalize by saying 'More expensive the product ....'. Which means the more expensive my fountain pen, the more I can throw it around, use rough paper etc. I am totally with you on ze German's not providing more bang for the buck, or in this case, the rupee. Still, as I said, they seem to be on a learning curve.

Originally Posted by carboy

Maybe Mercedes & BMW should tie up with Maruti & pay Maruti some money for knowledge transfer on how to build reliable cars - Maruti is able to do it at a 2 lakh price point.

This is downright, and pardon me for saying so, silly. Are Maruti cars more reliable or more 'easily repairable'? A better comparison would be to a Lexus / Acura, but we do not have too many of those here.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

No one can generalize by saying 'More expensive the product ....'. Which means the more expensive my fountain pen, the more I can throw it around, use rough paper etc.

No. It means that if you are able to use rough paper with a cheap fountain pen & a cheap fountain pen suffers no damage, then you should be able to use rough paper with a fountain pen that costs 10 times as much - unless you are buying it just for keeping it in the showcase or something.

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

Are Maruti cars more reliable or more 'easily repairable'?

I would think yes.