[julupani]

Originally Posted by rajneeesh

For every satisfied Fiat customer there are a lage number of dissatisfied ones.

Hmm, any data to back that up.

All the survey's that I have come across actually say the exact opposite. Check a poll about FIAT after sales here on Tbhp, even that says that less that a third of all customer's are actually not that happy. A similar survey actually puts MSIL in not a much better position.

From my experience, my extended family has 2 Puntos and 1 Linea, and all of them are pretty happy with their after sales service.

And by the way when exactly did you own a Tata??

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by rajneeesh

Buddy, I owned an Indica for close to & years so I know a bit about Tata *SS. A very large segment of Tata car customers are Cab drivers. Tata dealerships may not be a waste of money ( TATA cars still sell pretty well) but it is Fiat I am talking about. For every satisfied Fiat customer there are a lage number of dissatisfied ones.

+1. I dont see why anyone would want to invest in a fresh Fiat dealership given the numbers and absence of any high end products which have potential to bring margins. I guess Tata would arm-twist some of its dealers to open Fiat showrooms or Fiat would have to give some heavy incentives.

[asdon]

Originally Posted by rajneeesh

For every satisfied Fiat customer there are a lage number of dissatisfied ones.

It looks like you are just a Fiat basher without any experience of Fiat ownership, keep yourself in the dissatisfied lot but don't vouch for the larger segment.


Maruti sells well due to 2 reason, we Indian's are afraid of new things and old memories, and Maruti has been there for a long amount of time, ask Suzuki to open individual dealership, flyes will not visit them, its because they made India centric company with only Indian customer in focus that helped MSIL grow the bond. Fiat should do something like this, and opening individual showroom is not Fiat's own choice, remember Fiat India is a 50-50 jv between Fiat and TATA so any step will be taken by the both companies. I have owned a Maruti and a Fiat, I know whats the difference, Maruti customer service is no way better than Tata-Fiat, its just that Maruti keeps too many well dressed people in the service area and keep on asking "Sir....Sir...." we feel they are customer oriented. Maruti tells "where ever you go you will find a Maruti service station" bottom line is Your car can break down anywhere any time.

Fiat cars are build to perform and keep a side breakdown worries.

Sorry for being OT, but Fiat bashers please continue bashing in some other thread please, here positive minded people are giving opinion about betterment of their loved brand.

[rameshnanda]

Originally Posted by asdon

It looks like you are just a Fiat basher without any experience of Fiat ownership, keep yourself in the dissatisfied lot but don't vouch for the larger segment.


Maruti sells well due to 2 reason, we Indian's are afraid of new things and old memories, and Maruti has been there for a long amount of time, ask Suzuki to open individual dealership, flyes will not visit them, its because they made India centric company with only Indian customer in focus that helped MSIL grow the bond. Fiat should do something like this, and opening individual showroom is not Fiat's own choice, remember Fiat India is a 50-50 jv between Fiat and TATA so any step will be taken by the both companies. I have owned a Maruti and a Fiat, I know whats the difference, Maruti customer service is no way better than Tata-Fiat, its just that Maruti keeps too many well dressed people in the service area and keep on asking "Sir....Sir...." we feel they are customer oriented. Maruti tells "where ever you go you will find a Maruti service station" bottom line is Your car can break down anywhere any time.

Fiat cars are build to perform and keep a side breakdown worries.

Sorry for being OT, but Fiat bashers please continue bashing in some other thread please, here positive minded people are giving opinion about betterment of their loved brand.

Very much true. I have owned Hyundai and a Fiat. If you ask me Fiat service is thousand times better than that of Hyundai. I have shouted this at least 1000 times .

Hyundai service people dress well and speak well and act like a robo. Never hear about the actual customer complaints. And also, I feel maintenance cost of Hyundai is exorbitantly high. This is truly based on my experience with both the manufacturers and its not a perception.

[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by asdon

Maruti sells well due to 2 reason, we Indian's are afraid of new things and old memories, and Maruti has been there for a long amount of time, ask Suzuki to open individual dealership, flyes will not visit them, its because they made India centric company with only Indian customer in focus that helped MSIL grow the bond.

Perfectly put in .

Might be OT : -

It's because of name "Maruti" that Suzuki is selling in india. They must thank late sanjay gandhi for that . jokes apart, Suzuki is surviving just because of its Indian operations else they would have been acquired by some body else by now just like FIAT did with Chrysler and despite that what indian customer is getting is a open secret. There is a reason why VW is not on talking terms with Suzuki despite a partner ship.

Below is their sales data in US market ..some what like what FIAT;s situation is in india .

Source
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/pag...tml#autosalesE

Same link has Chryslers data as well and now fiat themselves has launched FIAT 500 in US Market again , which is selling pretty well.
Attachment 607467

[abhibh]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

perfectly put in .

might be OT : -

it's because of name "maruti" that suzuki is selling in india. they must thank late sanjay gandhi for that . jokes apart, suzuki is surviving just b,cause of it;s indian operations else they would have been acquired by some body else by now just like FIAT did with Chrysler and despite that what indian customer is getting is a open secret. there is a reason why VW is not on talking terms with suzuki despite a partner ship.

Below is their sales data in US market ..some what like what FIAT;s situation is in india .

Source
Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com

same link has chryslers data as well and now fiat themselves has launched FIAT 500 in US Market again , which is selling pretty well.
Attachment 607467

Does it matter what a company situation is in US or Canada ? That way even TATA is nowhere to be seen in radar internationally but they do sell quiet a lot of cars in India. More than FIAT!

You are going to drive the car in INDIA not US, so one should be more worried about the product, A.S.S and reliability of the product sold in India.

Its a welcome move from FIAT to open their own showrooms. Maybe they should open their respective service centers too.

[architect]

Originally Posted by julupani

Now with the Palio the story is completely different.

Also, parts are always much more difficult to source for the Palio, considering that it is almost non-existent.

FIAT also probably has completely given up on the Palio.

The story may be different for Palio owners, but judging by the way Fiat is treating them does not really help them with repeat purchases, does it?

Not all Palios were sold in 2002. The Palio NV and the Palio Stile were sold right out of Tata showrooms AFTER the merger. Then why should the new JV give up on it (I don't think it has 'given up', the way you put it, though!)

As a current Fiat customer, I don't care about what Fiat may become in the future or what it promises to. If my four year old car is waiting for 5 months for parts to arrive from Pune like a TBHP member's car did, I will not buy another Fiat nor recommend it to anyone. It's simple.

A repeat purchase is one of the first signs of a healthy brand, because no amount of advertising, freebies, sops, schemes will ensure a repeat purchase. Only a sound product and reliable support will. A person who does a repeat purchase will have full confidence recommending it to others.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by architect

The story may be different for Palio owners, but judging by the way Fiat is treating them does not really help them with repeat purchases, does it?

Not all Palios were sold in 2002. The Palio NV and the Palio Stile were sold right out of Tata showrooms AFTER the merger. Then why should the new JV give up on it (I don't think it has 'given up', the way you put it, though!)

As a current Fiat customer, I don't care about what Fiat may become in the future or what it promises to. If my four year old car is waiting for 5 months for parts to arrive from Pune like a TBHP member's car did, I will not buy another Fiat nor recommend it to anyone. It's simple.

A repeat purchase is one of the first signs of a healthy brand, because no amount of advertising, freebies, sops, schemes will ensure a repeat purchase. Only a sound product and reliable support will. A person who does a repeat purchase will have full confidence recommending it to others.

True, it is depressing to see the plight of Palio owner's.

I was giving my opinion based on the attitude of the service advisor towards Palio and Punto/Line owners. It is very very different, with the Palio guys getting sidelined at every step. Similarly, FIAT dont seem to even want to sell the Palio. There is never one in any showroom. Its still on the books probably because of old stocks not having been cleared.

And now some parts have to come all the way from Brazil, where it is still made, thus the heavy delay.

But in this case I think FIAT have to let economics trump customer service. It just isnt economic sense with the total number of Palios of all ages on the road being very very small.

[.sushilkumar]

Originally Posted by abhibh

Does it matter what a company situation is in US or Canada ? That way even TATA is nowhere to be seen in radar internationally but they do sell quiet a lot of cars in India. More than FIAT!

You are going to drive the car in INDIA not US, so one should be more worried about the product, A.S.S and reliability of the product sold in India.

Its a welcome move from FIAT to open their own showrooms. Maybe they should open their respective service centers too.

no. it doesn't matter. my point is that if FIAT is struggling here than others too are struggling some where . needless to say the treatment MSIL gives to Indian customer , despite being their bread and butter market, is there in front of everybody to see and judge.
Despite that , if FIAT makes a good move bashers can;t see that happening and start commenting negatively without a inch of knowledge of what's happening. there are enough such comments on this thread itself .

[architect]

Originally Posted by .sushilkumar

Despite that , if FIAT makes a good move bashers can;t see that happening and start commenting negatively without a inch of knowledge of what's happening. there are enough such comments on this thread itself .

The point many of us trying to make is that merely opening separate showrooms will not be enough for fixing FIAT's problems.

In fact, opening separate showrooms will merely make them even more nonviable business propositions looking at the dismal sales numbers. Tata demands security to the tune of double-digit crores to open showrooms in metropolitan cities. Do you think somebody will sink that kind of money into a showroom for a company that's not selling 2000 units a month all over the country?

Even if Tata gets its existing dealers to open exclusive Fiat showrooms, will the buying experience improves with the same people?

I have a Fiat and Maruti at home. I agree that Maruti Service is over-hyped to a large degree and I am not happy with the service. However, the fact that a simple parts failure can make my 2008 Palio wait for months for spares is always at the back of my mind. I know this will not be the case with a Maruti. That FIAT makes superior cars (from my perspective) to Maruti at the same price point is something I agree to totally. But it doesn't help to have surperior cars that don't work. It's like having a genius employee who does not do any work.

I do not qualify to be a "basher", "without an inch of knowledge" as to what's going on. It depends on what your perspective of "knowledge" is. My knowledge is not restricted to press releases and news from the top honchos of FIAT India. The marketing and P R department of FIAT does not get me my parts. It is people like Mangesh Kodalkar and the workshop manager's who do. Unfortunately, I know what's going on because I get the feedback from service advisors and workshop manager's who have to struggle to get the parts from FIAT Pune.

[julupani]

Originally Posted by architect

The point many of us trying to make is that merely opening separate showrooms will not be enough for fixing FIAT's problems.

In fact, opening separate showrooms will merely make them even more nonviable business propositions looking at the dismal sales numbers. Tata demands security to the tune of double-digit crores to open showrooms in metropolitan cities. Do you think somebody will sink that kind of money into a showroom for a company that's not selling 2000 units a month all over the country?

Even if Tata gets its existing dealers to open exclusive Fiat showrooms, will the buying experience improves with the same people?

I think I am mentioning this the third time now.

The new FIAT exclusive dealers will be nothing but existing dealers creating new facilities, exclusively for FIAT cars. It will technically not be an a new dealership.

And most likely FIPL, ie Tata and FIAT, will be sweetening and incentivising the deal to persuade dealers to open separate facilities and changing the attitudes of the dealership and service personnel.

[rajneeesh]

Originally Posted by asdon

It looks like you are just a Fiat basher without any experience of Fiat ownership, keep yourself in the dissatisfied lot but don't vouch for the larger segment.


Maruti sells well due to 2 reason, we Indian's are afraid of new things and old memories, and Maruti has been there for a long amount of time, ask Suzuki to open individual dealership, flyes will not visit them, its because they made India centric company with only Indian customer in focus that helped MSIL grow the bond. Fiat should do something like this, and opening individual showroom is not Fiat's own choice, remember Fiat India is a 50-50 jv between Fiat and TATA so any step will be taken by the both companies. I have owned a Maruti and a Fiat, I know whats the difference, Maruti customer service is no way better than Tata-Fiat, its just that Maruti keeps too many well dressed people in the service area and keep on asking "Sir....Sir...." we feel they are customer oriented. Maruti tells "where ever you go you will find a Maruti service station" bottom line is Your car can break down anywhere any time.

Fiat cars are build to perform and keep a side breakdown worries.

Sorry for being OT, but Fiat bashers please continue bashing in some other thread please, here positive minded people are giving opinion about betterment of their loved brand.

Well if someone expreeses an opinion against Fiat they become Fiat bashers. The fact of the matter is that despite what the surveys may say, FIAT is losing the contest which really matters, i.e. to convince the buyers to buy their cars.

It is not that Fiat has not been given a chance by the market. THe Palio did get good numbers to begin with but Fiat could not build on the initial success. The Linea and the GP did much better when they were laiunched and I was very interested in the GP myself but decided to go in for a Figo.

THe way things seem to be panning out, it will be MSIL which ultimately helps FIAT survive in India by sourcing Diesel engines from it.

MSIL gets better performance out of the Fiat designed engines than FIAT itself. The Swift and the Ritz are much better in accelration than even the GP 90 BHP.

Somehow, I get a feeling that the FIAT users have a condesending attitute towards the average Indian car buyer who has a "herd mentality" and cannot make informed decisions. They have a right to hold their opinions and viewpoints but ultimately, "the customer is always right" and MSIL & Hyundai have understood that.

Even Honda which has seen enormous success with the City was taught a lesson by the market when they refused to pay the premium any more. The City is now selling well post the price corrections and I am sure the Jazz and the Brio well do well as long as Honda understand what the Indian customer wants and does not treat them like "third world citizens who have to be told what is good for them".

[rameshnanda]

Originally Posted by rajneeesh

THe way things seem to be panning out, it will be MSIL which ultimately helps FIAT survive in India by sourcing Diesel engines from it.

Till now, MSIL is not sourcing any engine from Fiat. MSIL manufactures the diesel engine under license from Fiat Spa and not Fiat India. MSIL has just started talks with Fiat India to source its diesels in order to meet the demand.

Originally Posted by rajneeesh

MSIL gets better performance out of the Fiat designed engines than FIAT itself. The Swift and the Ritz are much better in accelration than even the GP 90 BHP.

I won't agree with your point here. Have you ever driven GP 90HP on the highway? I have owned it and I can say that its way ahead of most of sedans in market today in performance.

If you don't like GP or Linea, well that's fine. But, I don't understand the whole point of blaming Fiat by people who haven't owned Fiat in recent times.

[prakash_ajp]

I have a feeling that Fiat must be scratching their head as to what can resurrect them. They have always come here with fantastic products such Uno, Palio, Sienna/Petra, and now Punto and Linea. But unfortunately, after Uno and Palio no other models have been successful. In retrospect, one could say that Fiat failed to capitalize on the success they had with Palio - that was the time they were in a good position to go 'solo', establish their name, make a mark etc. Now they must be wondering if they missed a great opportunity and didn't have the foresight. Now they are are in correction mode and will be very difficult to come out on top, but I do hope for that miracle. Businesses need to be pro-active to be successful over long-term.

Having said that, I don't think Fiat customer service is bad at all. But what is perceived by the people outside is quite different. And by nature or for whatever reason, people don't want to take risks/chances, which is understandable. I still come across plenty of people who vouch for a movie because someone else told them it's good. No offense, but I have seen it here as well. As far as Fiat is concerned, that 'bad reputation' is all over the place and it would take a lot of time and effort to change that.

Another factor that may not be working in Fiat's favor is they are not 'new' unlike VW. It's a new trend I see in India that people want to own the fancy badges even though it comes with a certain amount of risk. Fiat have always been around and no wow factor to associate to, really. Here in India, Fiat reminds people only of the Premiere Padminis and 118NEs and not Ferraris. Perhaps, Fiat may want to try their luck by bringing their other brands such as ALFA to India. But whatever it is, it has to be a huge step, in my opinion.

[Speed Pujari]

I think for me having seen good as well as bad days of Fiat after sales, the good service comes as an added bonus.

The parts availibility is an issue due to the supply-demand gap which is actually due to very less number of cars on road. The readily available parts list will be mostly the selected ones or the common break down ones. Maintaining inventory for highly uncommon parts (like dash board, bumpers etc.) may not make so much sense for a dealership.

However the case is different with MS due to such a heavy number of vehicles on road. There are uncommon breakdowns even with a MS, but the probability of getting more cars with those breakdowns can be high. Thus maintaining inventory of even unwanted parts make sense for a MS dealership, it WILL sell.

Note that Fiat is associated with a larger number of customer base in India thorugh their quality engines.

I love Fiat for their quality product which no one in competition is able to beat. I dont care who says what until my car puts a grin on my face while driving.

After sales is a thing to experience rather than discussing.