[asdon]

Originally Posted by avishar

@asdon The reason why the government subsidies diesel is because diesel is used for a variety of purpose.Not only for private cars,but factories,buses,trucks,agricultural water pumps,generators and so on.If they suddenly hiked diesel prices it will cause a domino effect on commodity prices raising inflation which is already high.
Rural india uses a lot of diesel for tractors and all and would not be able to pay up higher prices so easily.

I know for what other purpose diesel is used for but the price of diesel what farmers get is not the pump price what we see, just research a little more and you will know that price.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by asdon

I know for what other purpose diesel is used for but the price of diesel what farmers get is not the pump price what we see, just research a little more and you will know that price.

There are all sorts of Diesel
. Slow Speed mainly used in Tractors, Pump sets and large Generators
. High Speed Diesel mainly used for transportation and in small generators
. Diesel with additives used by transportation to enhance the combustion in older diesel vehicles

The major diesel users are industrial generators, railways, armed forces and truckers. Private passenger vehicle use a minuscule of diesel consumed by industry. There fore the Government should not be alarmed by use of diesel by private vehicles. Given its small user base it should not affect the quantum of subsidy.

A simplistic case. The number of trucks plying Indian roads are equal to or more than number of private diesel vehicles. A truck requires 150-200L of diesel a day if it does 500-700km and their duty cycle is at least 300 days a year, while a private vehicle will do with 10-15L if it does 150km a day. The daily run of a truck is typical while that of a private vehicle is well above average. So we have a diesel demand of at least ten times more for trucks! Now who benefits from the diesel subsidy?

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Aroy

A simplistic case. The number of trucks plying Indian roads are equal to or more than number of private diesel vehicles. A truck requires 150-200L of diesel a day if it does 500-700km and their duty cycle is at least 300 days a year, while a private vehicle will do with 10-15L if it does 150km a day. The daily run of a truck is typical while that of a private vehicle is well above average. So we have a diesel demand of at least ten times more for trucks! Now who benefits from the diesel subsidy?

Is this a trick question? From your example, I would say that both of them benefit from the diesel subsidy.

[ac 427]

boss there is no argument on this. Vehicles that guzzle fuel should be taxed, and vehicles that are frugal and have technology that saves fuel should be given exemption.

Its a v simple thing. I don't making fuel more expensive for SUVs is the solution. It has to be more basic and simple.

Eg: A vehicle that gives more than 20 km to the litre, should not have any tax.
A vehicle that give less than 10 kms to the litre. a diff tax structure and a vehicle that gives less than 5 km to the litre.

The above tax should be collected during the time of buying the vehicle. And not later on.

But i am with Jairam Ramesh on his thinking bit.

Cheers,
ac

[sunishsamuel]

I don't think minister did some analysis of the situation before he commented like that. If his worry is about the number of SUVs in India, then he should understand most people buy suv's just because they cannot afford to damage their sedans in the indian roads, even the toll roads are damaged and no repairs in site (check hosur, krishnagiri stretch for eg) . I really thanked myself for the decision to buy a SUV after the last weekend trip to kumbakonam, velankanni via thiruvannamalai. I could drive through knee deep water while sedans had to stop or get damaged. Something that we are already discussing on.

Secondly, i would love to avoid taking my car to office, provided

- the autos do not harass me and charge only what it takes to take me to my destination.
- the public transport is easily accessible and frequent, and available even after 10pm in the night

Further, i end up taking my car most of the times for a weekend/long weekend trip to home just because rail tickets are never available, buses unsafe, flights not so economical. Here we talk about problems and never worry about solutions that would work, instead try to blame it on something or other to escape.

Further, why is he not talking about the trucks that are more than 10 year old with old technology which are majority in number ? They can be replaced with newer trucks which offer better fuel efficiency and lower CO2 emissions. Let govt work on providing cheap loans (as low as 2-4%) for replacing old trucks.

It does not make sense to tax the SUV's and expensive sedans more. They just form a minute percent of the total vehicle population in india. And if he is intending to do so, then does he mean more and more people should buy a maruti alto or nano which is fuel efficient than a safari and squeeze in seven people with luggage and enjoy an unsafe trip ?

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by carboy

Is this a trick question? From your example, I would say that both of them benefit from the diesel subsidy.

I will say that the advantage to economy due to subsidised diesel for the commercial transport sector far out weighs the loss, when diesel is used for SUV.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Aroy

I will say that the advantage to economy due to subsidised diesel for the commercial transport sector far out weighs the loss, when diesel is used for SUV.

May be true. However, if there was a way by which you could remove use of subsidised diesel by passenger vehicles, wouldn't that be better?

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by carboy

May be true. However, if there was a way by which you could remove use of subsidised diesel by passenger vehicles, wouldn't that be better?

Subsidy is rarely confined to its target audience, it has a way of spilling over and benefiting those out of its gambit a lot (think of subsidised rice, how much of it finds itself in the open market?). I think that removal of subsidy would help every body. The economy is robust enough to do away with most subsidies!

[manz]

Remember Obama's Bangalore-Buffalo remark. The media just hyped it up because 'Bangalore' grabs eyeballs in the IT world. Similarly in this case, the headlines screamed Audi and BMW's and voila! you get immediate attention! Imagine a headline saying: "SUV/MUV owners, the real benefactor of diesel subsidy"...No one will even bother to read the story!
In my opinion, the blatant headlines actually helped the cause. It's something that i hadn't given a thought to earlier but the headline compelled me to read the story and i think the minister has a valid point. The big question is " It's great to talk about such issues but what are you going to do about it?"

[sgiitk]

Mr Minister: One humble request from the Hoi Polloi, "Please drive on the roads of Haryana (a Congress ruled state)".

I happened to go on SH71B from Palwal to the NH8 near Dhanuhera/Bhiwadi. The number of speed bums is maddening. But these are at least negotiable. Please drive from Nuh to Bhiwadi. The road is very recent, but with a foot high speed bumps every 50-100 metres. Even your much hated SUVs will have problems, leave alone cars. Maybe you want us to migrate to Hummers! I assure you that these are not exactly the most economical vehicle. As one transporter put it, 'There is an accident, and the locals construct his grave right across the road!'. Something will have to give.

I think around 1999 there was a judgement of the Allahabad High Court banning the construction of Speedbumps on highways.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I think around 1999 there was a judgement of the Allahabad High Court banning the construction of Speedbumps on highways.

Speed breakers are banned on NH, but you still have villagers constructing them. More dangerous is the way the Road Work is carried out. Your shoulder suddenly disappears, replaced by newly dug up surface at least a foot below the hard top. At least an SUV can take it, but I pity a low slung sedan eased out by a truck or tractor. Of course there are pot holes which easily swallow up hatch back!

[akaush]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Mr Minister: One humble request from the Hoi Polloi, "Please drive on the roads of Haryana (a Congress ruled state)".

I happened to go on SH71B from Palwal to the NH8 near Dhanuhera/Bhiwadi. The number of speed bums is maddening. But these are at least negotiable. Please drive from Nuh to Bhiwadi. The road is very recent, but with a foot high speed bumps every 50-100 metres. Even your much hated SUVs will have problems, leave alone cars. Maybe you want us to migrate to Hummers! I assure you that these are not exactly the most economical vehicle. As one transporter put it, 'There is an accident, and the locals construct his grave right across the road!'. Something will have to give.

I think around 1999 there was a judgement of the Allahabad High Court banning the construction of Speedbumps on highways.

I cannot agree any more. I went in my Honda City to Rohtak from Faridabad about 3 months ago. First unfortunately I took the road from Najafgarh. There were these huge speed breakers right in front of the CRPF camp, forget Honda City, even an Innova touched its bottom. Imagine what would have been the plight of a person owning a new city. As I crossed Bahadurgarh, the road construction work was going on and some very smooth roads started (about 20 kms before Rohtak). And then suddenly there were these 2 monstrous unmarked speed breakers. I slowed down to the lowest possible speed and the first breaker was harsh on my car. 2nd speed breaker was even bigger and my wife and father decided to get off the car to increase the GC. It was still a very rude scratch on the underbelly. It seems the local MLA is from that village (congress again) and he wanted everyone to slow down on that junction, as there was an accident about 3-4 months ago. Its the same case with almost every state highway in Haryana, cruising on good new roads at 80-90 kmph and then suddenly an unmarked speed breaker.

I wish i had the money to buy a hummer, and i wish there was a guarantee that these villagers/MLA's dont construct walls on the highways after that.

[kiku007]

Now, Govt targets shopping malls for wasting energy

Now, Govt targets shopping malls for wasting energy - 1 - *Green News - Article - MSN India

These buffoons try all nonsense to divert the real issues. Energy/fuel conservation, yes definitely. However, in a Billion+ population pinning the blame on BMWs, Audis, Shopping Malls etc. is a joke.

P.S: I'm against giving subsided tractor fuel to cars.